KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
888 8 1
#81
Have you ever tried going really high with crossing those LS50's? I've done some reading on Reference 1 and it says that it is really helpful for the Uni-Q to be crossed at something like 350 or was it 370?
No, and I wouldn't because most subwoofers (mine included) fall flat around 180-200hz. I don't want to hear nothing between 200hz and 370hz!
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
888 8 1
#82
When did Klipsch start using concentric drivers instead of horns?!:p

Never. I really do not care for the Klipsch version of "reference" speakers. At all. Yeah, the RP version fixed some problems that a lot of people had with the tweeters, but I'm still no fan. They're OK and a great many people like them and own them. It just won't ever be me.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
5,453 22 9
#83
Never. I really do not care for the Klipsch version of "reference" speakers. At all. Yeah, the RP version fixed some problems that a lot of people had with the tweeters, but I'm still no fan. They're OK and a great many people like them and own them. It just won't ever be me.
Yeah, but you've got to admit the color scheme on that KEF shouts Klipsch to anyone familiar with their copper drivers!
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
888 8 1
#84
Yeah, but you've got to admit the color scheme on that KEF shouts Klipsch to anyone familiar with their copper drivers!
Yup, and that's why I don't care for the "standard" LS50 nor one version of the Reference series "Foundation Edition" speakers. It doesn't affect their sound a bit of course. I just don't like it and other than in-wall and ceiling speakers, we do have to look at them.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,754 9 1
#85
Have you ever tried going really high with crossing those LS50's? I've done some reading on Reference 1 and it says that it is really helpful for the Uni-Q to be crossed at something like 350 or was it 370?
It might, but then obviously you would need a pair of external subwoofers/woofers that can work with them crossing that high.
 
tyhjaarpa

tyhjaarpa

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
473 3 10
#86
I auditioned Reference 3 but for me they weren't that outstanding when compared to R500 that I could justify the price difference. Of course this could be because the space they were set on for the weekend. Yes, they are great speakers but so are R500 and the price difference is big. I will give them another change when I see them somewhere for audition.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
888 8 1
#87
I think it took knowing the R500 well for me to truly appreciate what the Reference 3 can do. That, plus hearing the Reference 3 in a larger room with bigger spaces from each other, the rear and side boundaries, and the listening position. I know from that experience that the Reference 3 wouldn't work in my space if I just exchanged them from my R500. Rather, I would need to swing everything to be along the 19 foot (5.8m) dimension of my room, and have them at least 30 inches (0.8m) behind them, 10 ft apart and sit at least 8 ft away to get the full benefit. Plus I would need a *really* good, powerful amp. ;)
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,754 9 1
#88
I think it took knowing the R500 well for me to truly appreciate what the Reference 3 can do. That, plus hearing the Reference 3 in a larger room with bigger spaces from each other, the rear and side boundaries, and the listening position. I know from that experience that the Reference 3 wouldn't work in my space if I just exchanged them from my R500. Rather, I would need to swing everything to be along the 19 foot (5.8m) dimension of my room, and have them at least 30 inches (0.8m) behind them, 10 ft apart and sit at least 8 ft away to get the full benefit. Plus I would need a *really* good, powerful amp. ;)
Where I auditioned those big reference 1,3,5, the room is quite big, but they have many speakers close to each other and that could have been the reason why I didn't find them that good. In contrast, the Blades were in their own room and obviously nicely placed. I can' wait to see some measurements of them, hopefully by JA, as well as Soundstage.com
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Ratings
3,010 18 1
#90
Have you ever tried going really high with crossing those LS50's? I've done some reading on Reference 1 and it says that it is really helpful for the Uni-Q to be crossed at something like 350 or was it 370?
I can't speak to the LS50's specifically, but I've got a pair of custom speakers utilizing drivers from a pair of Q100s, and those certainly benefited from being crossed ~500Hz (and of course, the whole Dennis Murphy XO treatment).
1.jpg

IMHO, the end result is markedly better than the R300s I have for comparison, though I can't quite swing a set of Reference series speakers to see how they'd hold up in my room for a head to head competition :D
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Ratings
888 8 1
#91
I can't speak to the LS50's specifically, but I've got a pair of custom speakers utilizing drivers from a pair of Q100s, and those certainly benefited from being crossed ~500Hz (and of course, the whole Dennis Murphy XO treatment).
View attachment 24719

IMHO, the end result is markedly better than the R300s I have for comparison, though I can't quite swing a set of Reference series speakers to see how they'd hold up in my room for a head to head competition :D
That's so cool. I'd always wondered what Dennis could do with those drivers because they're so good yet KEF skimped on crossover quality and cabinet to save money. Which woofer is used there, and in what cabinet? Do you know if he added any bracing inside it? That's a big part of the R series, better cabinets.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,754 9 1
#92
Thanks, that's just one, the 3, hopefully JA will do the 5 or at least the 1.
By the way, if I remember right, the KEF Ref 201/2 owns the best looking graphs and measurements, by both JA and SoundStage. @ADTG used to own a pair, he should have kept it or sold them to me at half his cost.:D
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Ratings
3,010 18 1
#94
That's so cool. I'd always wondered what Dennis could do with those drivers because they're so good yet KEF skimped on crossover quality and cabinet to save money. Which woofer is used there, and in what cabinet? Do you know if he added any bracing inside it? That's a big part of the R series, better cabinets.
Seas ER18 woofer (7" version of what's used in the Salk SongTowers among others) and a Dayton 0.75CF cabinet. From what I recall, no additional bracing was added, but some damping material was. They're pretty inert on the knuckle rap test in any case.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Field Marshall
Ratings
774 6 13
#96
Thank you all, interesting details.


I can't speak to the LS50's specifically, but I've got a pair of custom speakers utilizing drivers from a pair of Q100s, and those certainly benefited from being crossed ~500Hz (and of course, the whole Dennis Murphy XO treatment).
View attachment 24719

IMHO, the end result is markedly better than the R300s I have for comparison, though I can't quite swing a set of Reference series speakers to see how they'd hold up in my room for a head to head competition :D
I made one huge mistake and I see that now. If you want to cross Uni-Q driver high, that would imply having a woofer between the Uni-Q and a supposed sub. No use crossing them high if your sub can't play nice around 370. In the reference model they are crossed high because the rest goes to that aluminum woofer.

Still, I have my mind set not only to try with 120, but to slightly reduce the lows in the LS50', just to see if I like it.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
5,754 9 1
#97
Still, I have my mind set not only to try with 120, but to slightly reduce the lows in the LS50', just to see if I like it.
Using my newly acquired X3400H, I was able to try XO 80, 90, 100 and 110, and found with XT32 running, even XO 90 Hz is good, 80 is acceptable but not 60. The Denon actually had the LS50 XO set to either 40 Hz or 60 Hz depending on how I placed the mic. They sound really good now, better than before when I had to use JRiver's parametric EQ for each channel independently in order to get decent sound stage/imaging. My separates are going to be idling for a long time.:(
 
B

Beave

Full Audioholic
Ratings
290 2
#98
I can't speak to the LS50's specifically, but I've got a pair of custom speakers utilizing drivers from a pair of Q100s, and those certainly benefited from being crossed ~500Hz (and of course, the whole Dennis Murphy XO treatment).
View attachment 24719

IMHO, the end result is markedly better than the R300s I have for comparison, though I can't quite swing a set of Reference series speakers to see how they'd hold up in my room for a head to head competition :D
Can you elaborate on what you think is better on your custom speakers vs your KEF R300s? I'm not doubting, just curious. I've never heard either.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Ratings
3,010 18 1
#99
Can you elaborate on what you think is better on your custom speakers vs your KEF R300s? I'm not doubting, just curious. I've never heard either.
Extension and frequency balance primarily. With respect to extension, the customs are in a much larger enclosure and the system was tuned about 10Hz deeper than the R300s, so no big surprise there. As far as the balance goes, you can see the FR of the R300s at S&V: reasonably flat, aside from that bump centered around 6-700Hz. I don't have the measurements Dennis gave me of the customs any more (that was ~5 years ago now),but they were remarkably flat except for one detail: he had to bump up the woofer just a tad to preserve the phase response of the system. The subjective result was that when the R300s were popped into the same position as the customs, they sounded downright thin in the upper bass / lower midrange by comparison.

Of course, there's a reason the R300s are still around: their problems were solved with placement and tweaking with EQ, they're more efficient, and considerably more attractive (a critical aspect for a system in the living room, vs the bedroom where the customs once again reside).
 

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