Jumpers/Power cord Upgrade:Fact or Fiction?

[Rickster71]

so everybody here with half a brain or better uses the cheap cables that came with their systems

i tell you this is kind of like a bunch of athiests trying to convince a christian God doesnt exist.

I tell you what... if I'm going to spend 2k or more on an amp and that much or more on speakers.. I'll just play things safe and get a better set of cables.. just in case I mean why not

and just in case there is a god I'll try to be a decent person and not call them idiots for believing something different from me

heres another question...

if a mistubishi evo does 0-60 in 4 seconds the same and a porsche 911 turbo then they must be equal and there is no reason to buy the 911 turbo right? i mean the 0-60 time is the same ....

I guess everyone here would drive an evo?

Can you help and explain the differences in power cords, to some of us that may not understand?
The comparisons to religion and cars just make it even more confusing for me.

What is your understanding as to what is going on inside the better power cable, that's not happening inside the cheap one?

Also, the most confusing part for me: How does electricity travel through many miles of wire to get to my house, only to have six feet of power cord 'make or break' the whole thing?

Thanks
Signed,
Electrically Confused

 

[chris357]

It’s unlikely, that people are using cables that came with their components. Because these cables generally have a poor build quality and/or inferior shielding, so to be on the safe many people do buy different cables. There are other reasons such as aesthetics or extreme operating environments for buying different cables, but in most situations the supplied cables would most likely work just fine.

.

so explain how shielding and build quality make a difference I mean they solder the connections and thats all the same right? And the insulation is plastic so????

I know that there were flaws in the car analogy.. thats why I used it..

I'm also not saying that people should spend 2k on a cable.. and yes my system is a work in progress and I happened to get a deal on my amp before speakers.. so i have killer pre/pro and amp and decent speakers but as I'm not made of money I have to wait for speakers.. its kind of you have to act on the deals as they come sometimes..

 

[bandphan]

Think of it like this, copper is copper. Most all HDMI cables are 22awg or higher, so how is that ultra fat component cable going to be better than the tiny one thats shipped with cheap gear. HDMI is carrying mulitple signals and bi directional in some cases. I use cat5 for many applications, how is that bad?

 

[chris357]

Think of it like this, copper is copper. Most all HDMI cables are 22awg or higher, so how is that ultra fat component cable going to be better than the tiny one thats shipped with cheap gear. HDMI is carrying mulitple signals and bi directional in some cases. I use cat5 for many applications, how is that bad?

even cat 5 has to be made a certain way(twisted pair) I believe it has to be twisted to reduce the errors when sending info packets accross a network(its been a while since I learned about networking)

also copper is not just copper there is copper and then oxygen free copper.
??

also once I tried to jump start a boat battery with a set of compact jumper cables that were very very small.. and even though it was the same power going to that boat battery those little cables would not jump start that boat.. but once we used a normal set of cables it started just fine.. ??? why is that?

 

[PeterWhite]

As the distance increases, the diameter of the wire needs to increase, otherwise the wire acts as a resistor and heats up. Any time a wire gets warm, you need to get a thicker wire. That would apply to a power cord. But very few manufacturers of audio gear will sell a component with a power cord that's too thin for the application. If the power cord isn't getting hot during use, there's no need for an upgrade.

 

[PeterWhite]

Do you have a toaster at home? One of those gizmos you drop in a slice of bread, push down the lever, and two minutes later your bread pops up all toasty brown?

If you look inside while it's working its magic, you'll see a bunch of wires all glowing red hot.

The reason they glow is they're very thin. Too thin to carry the current being fed to them. So instead of carrying the load, and letting all those little electrons move merrily along the wire, they get hot. Since they're extremely thin, and there's lots of electrons, they get extremely hot.

If you could make one change to your toaster; that is, just change those tiny thin wires to big thick wires, when you turned on your toaster, the wires wouldn't get hot, and your bread wouldn't get all toasty brown.

 

[Jason Lopez]

Can you help and explain the differences in power cords, to some of us that may not understand?
The comparisons to religion and cars just make it even more confusing for me.

What is your understanding as to what is going on inside the better power cable, that's not happening inside the cheap one?

Also, the most confusing part for me: How does electricity travel through many miles of wire to get to my house, only to have six feet of power cord 'make or break' the whole thing?

Thanks
Signed,
Electrically Confused

There's not much you can do about electricity and current before it gets to your house, but...from your wall outlet, you can clean up the signal with various AC line conditioners and voltage stabilizers, and try to maintain the integrity of the signal as it goes through the chain of your components. At least that's what people who have been in this hobby for most of there life have concluded. My system sounds better in the morning than at night because more people in the neighborhood are using their power sucking appliances at that time. I bought a FURUTECH eTP80 AC line receptacle, and it was probably one of the most noticeable upgrades to my system.

 

[nibhaz]

so explain how shielding and build quality make a difference I mean they solder the connections and thats all the same right? And the insulation is plastic so????

My conjectures were merely to explain logical reasons for people to buy more expensive cable. The actual reasons vary greatly, and there is no way of knowing the actual reasons people do so.

At this point we should be specific about what types of cables we are talking about.

If we are merely talking about speaker cable, then yes the insulation is merely some form of plastic material, and is of little consequence, other than it is should be durable and easy to work with.

The primary parameter one should be concerned with is the AWG of the wire. If we are talking about simple zip cord then this is pretty much the only parameter we need concern ourselves with. If we are talking about more esoterically designed cables (braided, flat) then we might need to take a closer look at how these configurations are affecting the parallel capacitance and series inductance of the cable to better understand if there will be any deleterious effects in the audible band.

Now if we are talking about analog interconnects the insulation of the cable is usually more than simple plastic and can be important if your system is in an area saturated with a lot of RFI or your interconnects are forced to run in close proximity to your power cables. Also of concern is the flexibility and durability of said insulation. Remember most analog interconnects consist of some type of coaxial cable terminated with RCA style connections. These connectors are also a good reason for some to purchase different cables as some hold up better to being constantly connected and disconnected or simply provide a better physical connection to the equipment than provided cables.

Lastly, not all solder connections are equal.

I'm also not saying that people should spend 2k on a cable.. and yes my system is a work in progress and I happened to get a deal on my amp before speakers.. so i have killer pre/pro and amp and decent speakers but as I'm not made of money I have to wait for speakers.. its kind of you have to act on the deals as they come sometimes..

Most of us here are in the same situation as you, so you are among friends.

I for one have a limited amount of resources that can be spared on this hobby, so I need to makes sure that I get maximum ROI on my purchase. The best way I found to accomplish this is to learn from research and reading the knowledge and advice shared in this forum. Sometimes when that knowledge conflicts with personal beliefs it can be a hard pill to swallow for some. The science can only lead you so far though, and final decisions are going to be made on your personal preference. That’s why we have myriad of companies to choose from.

P.S. Good deals are hard to pass up

 

[bandphan]

even cat 5 has to be made a certain way(twisted pair) I believe it has to be twisted to reduce the errors when sending info packets accross a network(its been a while since I learned about networking)

also copper is not just copper there is copper and then oxygen free copper.
??

also once I tried to jump start a boat battery with a set of compact jumper cables that were very very small.. and even though it was the same power going to that boat battery those little cables would not jump start that boat.. but once we used a normal set of cables it started just fine.. ??? why is that?

Yes, Cat 5 is twisted pairs, but still very small gauge Read up on your copper, not marketing terms We are not talking about jump starting marine batteries

 

[Lordoftherings]

Also, the most confusing part for me: How does electricity travel through many miles of wire to get to my house, only to have six feet of power cord 'make or break' the whole thing?
Electrically Confused

It's all in your electric cells.

 

[chris357]

Do you have a toaster at home? One of those gizmos you drop in a slice of bread, push down the lever, and two minutes later your bread pops up all toasty brown?

If you look inside while it's working its magic, you'll see a bunch of wires all glowing red hot.

The reason they glow is they're very thin. Too thin to carry the current being fed to them. So instead of carrying the load, and letting all those little electrons move merrily along the wire, they get hot. Since they're extremely thin, and there's lots of electrons, they get extremely hot.

If you could make one change to your toaster; that is, just change those tiny thin wires to big thick wires, when you turned on your toaster, the wires wouldn't get hot, and your bread wouldn't get all toasty brown.

actually I did swap out the old plug on my toaster and replaced it with a 20 amp IEC connector and have about a 2 inch power cable custom made to plug it in with.. the crazy thing is that my toast sounds amazing!!!

 

[avliner]

... and yes my system is a work in progress and I happened to get a deal on my amp before speakers.. so i have killer pre/pro and amp...

Chris,

according to your signature, you do own a KRELL amp, right?
IMHO, just considering the possibility to change its original power cord, sounds like underestimating Krell's R&D Engineers, to say the least

My .2 cents anyway!

Regards, Chuck

 

[Swerd]

…also copper is not just copper there is copper and then oxygen free copper…

You have gotten the full bore pile on treatment today. I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for you. But then you had to go and press my buttons with your comment about copper and oxygen free copper. So, no mercy!

Standard copper and oxygen free copper do not conduct any differently. And they both oxidize when exposed to air at the same rate. Read about it here.

 

[chris357]

Chris,

according to your signature, you do own a KRELL amp, right?
IMHO, just considering the possibility to change its original power cord, sounds like underestimating Krell's R&D Engineers, to say the least

My .2 cents anyway!

Regards, Chuck

well actually i have to say the power cable that came with it was pretty hefty and yes i did replace it with a nice one that i got for 45 bucks which I think is nicer. is 45 bucks out of line? is that snake oil? is it undermining the krell engineers? i think for the money I spent its an improvement in build quality over the freebie that came with it.. even though the krell freebie is pretty damn good and much better than what came with my B&K amps and other equipmant over the years.

 

[chris357]

You have gotten the full bore pile on treatment today. I was beginning to feel a bit sorry for you. But then you had to go and press my buttons with your comment about copper and oxygen free copper. So, no mercy!

Standard copper and oxygen free copper do not conduct any differently. And they both oxidize when exposed to air at the same rate. Read about it here.

Swerd you missed my point.. the poster who said copper is copper was generalizing about wire.. I was not stating there is a diffrence in sound.. but there are differences that are important to using it in your audio system. therefor wire does make a difference..

 

[mtrycrafts]

...Know your enemy.

And, know your friends even better

 

[Swerd]

Swerd you missed my point.. the poster who said copper is copper was generalizing about wire.. I was not stating there is a diffrence in sound.. but there are differences that are important to using it in your audio system. therefor wire does make a difference..

I don't believe you understood my point - that copper IS copper - and that includes the copper sold as oxygen free copper. Other than avoiding brittleness at solder joints, such as when RCA terminals get soldered onto coaxial cable, there is no advantage or benefit whatsoever to oxygen free copper.

Many high-priced cable manufacturers try to sell their overpriced wires to the gullible by implying that there are advantages to OFC. This is absolutely false.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Human beings' acoustic memory is incredibly short. That's why double-blind comparison tests are conducted.

1) It's just like testing new medications. They do it under controlled conditions. Some patients are given the real drug and some are given a placebo - it removes the psychological factor in the test.

.!

Just a small nit to pick
Short memory is not the reason for DBT, your response in no1 is
Short memory need a rather quick switching and short sound segments so we don't forget the mall details.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
i tell you this is kind of like a bunch of athiests trying to convince a christian God doesnt exist.

Not really as it is next to impossible to prove a negative. Well, maybe it is impossible. So, we try to investigate, set up a hypothesis and test for it. We can do this with what we think we hear, real or imagined.
On the other hand, the ones who believe in the supernatural do not want to do that based in such an experiment.

...I tell you what... if I'm going to spend 2k or more on an amp and that much or more on speakers.. I'll just play things safe and get a better set of cables.. just in case I mean why not

And, no one is discourages you from 'playing it safe.' Things heat up when a testable claim is made with nothing to support it.

...and just in case there is a god I'll try to be a decent person and not call them idiots for believing something different from me

As it should be.

...heres another question...

if a mistubishi evo does 0-60 in 4 seconds the same and a porsche 911 turbo then they must be equal and there is no reason to buy the 911 turbo right? i mean the 0-60 time is the same ....

I guess everyone here would drive an evo?

Not sure why folks keep trying to correlate cars and audio. Irrelevant comparisons.

 

[mtrycrafts]

....

Your analogy with religion is actually spot on. All of the magic wire business is based on faith, not on science. The claims made by companies like Kimber, Audioquest, Nordost, Pear and so many others are untestable, ....

I am not sure if they are untestable. You can compare two cables for any of their claims and see firstly is any of their claims are indeed audible, then, what measures differently. But, if not audible, it really doesn't matter if they measure different. Insignificant.