Japan vs. China/Malaysia

[JMO_PWR]

I am somewhat confused about peoples impressions of manufacturing locations. Once upon a time it was known that Japanese electronics where the best. Have these times changed about electronics? As i here people saying they dislike japanese electronics. Not only that why are Marantz made in China now? I would think they would want to keep their reputation?

Does it matter where the amp is manufactured?

If so, why?

Thank GuyZ

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

It's less expensive to solder Chinese parts to a board in China than to solder Chinese parts to a board in the US.

I bet 98% of all audio and video equipment comes from the far east. That means they have the latest technology, and means of efficiency to produce goods more economically than we can. That doesn't mean they're better, but that they most likely have less errors per 100 than US companies do. And that's been proven over and over.

 

[Hi Ho]

In my opinion, the quality of a product has nothing to do with where it was produced. The company itself is in charge of quality control. If they don't keep it up, their products go down the toilet. The reason we can buy a receiver like the Yamaha 2600 for as low as $800 is overseas manufacturing.

 

[AMG_Roadster]

It is completly up to the manufacturer as to the quality of the products and what they allow out of the factory.

Maybe not a direct comparison but the best one I can offer from personal experience off the top of my head. I have purchased a number of cordless phones. I have an older one from Uniden that I love. Hoping to be just as satisfied with another cordless phone I have purchase 3 other Unidens during an extended period of time. The newer phones pretty much sucked, had sound quality, durability, fit and finish issues. I was trying to figure out what happened. Then one day I noticed that the very well built phone was made in Japan and the crappy phones were made in China.

 

[Audioholics]

We have observed that certain manufacturers have their flagship products manufacturerd in Japan, while the mid-fi and lower-end products come out of China. With that said, these same manufacturers have such good quality control that it's hardly an issue either way...

 

[bongobob]

Actually very little is actually manufactured in Japan these days. The real estate is ridiculous, the labor costs are very high as well and everthing must be imported into Japan. All the major Japanese players have huge offices in Hong Kong and much of the actual manufacturing is done on the mainland. As long as the work isn't subcontracted out, the quality is just fine. China has the labor force to keep prices low. If something is not labor intensive, you don't save much by manufacturing in China.....

 

[outsider]

Not only that why are Marantz made in China now? I would think they would want to keep their reputation?

don't be concerned about the quality of Marantz, their Chinese made products are very good quality.

 

[Davidt1]

My Rant

Forget China, Japan, etc. Why aren't more things made right here in the US? I am talking, of course, to my fellow Americans. Greed is the answer. Corporations are major political donors. How do do our government and politicians repay them? By allowing companies to export jobs to other countries at the expense of American workers. Please spare me the lecture on capitalism and global commerce. While companies save a lot of money by making a product overseas, they do not pass on the savings to us equitably. While we pay obscene prices for things, the middle men (American companies without any American worker) reap the benefits of low-cost labor in China, etc. Another painful example of this exploit is the recent invasion-for-oil in the Middle East. We've got the oil, but prices are soaring. The fruit of this invasion does not go to you or me. It makes me sad to see people supporting all these crazy policies without asking serious questions. I feel better now.

 

[treetownal]

if audio equipment were mass produced in the US, it would be insanely expensive and of poor quality. to the extent this is a product of greed, its as much consumer greed as it is greed on the part of the company (i.e., its shareholders, anyone who owns a 401k, invests in mutual funds, etc). If you own stock in any company, you are the greedy company you speak as it is simply a legal fiction comprised of its shareholders capital investment. Frankly, I would never pay a single additional dollar to buy a DVD player built in Detroit, but double the costs is more likely if we were to disavow economies of scale and reduced production costs just to stick an american flag sticker on our receivers.

I'd also suggest that the value of comparisons to commodity prices and discussions of the merits of the war in Iraq is nil when discussing supply chain production of audio components.

 

[Davidt1]

Well, let's take a look at SVS and HSU, two of the most well-known sub makers around. I believe SVS subs are made in the US and HSU subs are made in China. Are SVS subs insanely expensive or poorly made? I am not nearly as smart as many of you, but I think the answer is pretty obvious.

I applaud SVS and other companies who continue to make things in America. You can count on me as a customer because it makes me feel good to know that I might help save an American job when I buy your products.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Enjoy your new American car! (while it lasts....)

 

[outsider]

Enjoy your new American car! (while it lasts....)

I thought the "American" cars were built in Mexico? Or is it Canada? Or Korea?

as for USA made electronics, there are a few. You just have to be able to find them and afford them.
For those of you who enjoy car audio, you can get Zapco amps and processors that are made in Modesto, California.

 

[Audioholics]

Most (and I'm saying "most" not "all") American electronics products (at least receivers) are grossly underperforming and especially underfeatured when compared to their Japanese and Chinese-manufactured counterparts. This may, however, aslo be a "big company" vs. "little company" issue with respects to who has the greater budget for R&D.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Well, let's take a look at SVS and HSU, two of the most well-known sub makers around. I believe SVS subs are made in the US and HSU subs are made in China. Are SVS subs insanely expensive or poorly made? I am not nearly as smart as many of you, but I think the answer is pretty obvious.

I applaud SVS and other companies who continue to make things in America. You can count on me as a customer because it makes me feel good to know that I might help save an American job when I buy your products.

Do you know where those fancy black SVS cabinets are made? How about those SVS Bash amplifiers? (and what percent of the components of those Bash amps are made on this continent?)

I'm not knocking SVS, but pointing out not everything is made here in the US.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I thought the "American" cars were built in Mexico? Or is it Canada? Or Korea?

Our Honda Pilot was made in Canada. But that's a bad example. Just about every other Honda is made right here, west of Columbus, Ohio.

Do you know what's amazing? The Honda/Acura line of cars is as good or better than anything else produced, anywhere in the world as far as cars go. That's not the amazing part. The amazing part is that Ohioans are building these vehicles. Here's a few facts about the Marysville, Ohio Honda plant (just west of Columbus):

* Honda is Ohio's top manufacturer of motor vehicles.
* Honda employs more than 16,000 Ohioans, with total wages exceeding $1.1 billion annually, is a top-15 Ohio employer, and has never had a layoff.
* Honda has invested $6.1 billion in Ohio since 1979.
* Honda's investment of $5.3 billion in manufacturing in Ohio represents more than 80 percent of Honda's total U. S. investment in manufacturing.
* Honda's vehicle, engine and transmission production output in Ohio since 1979 exceeds $178 billion.
* Honda's vehicle, engine and transmission production output in Ohio in 2003 exceeds $16 billion.
* Honda has received the Governor's Excellence in Exporting Award 3 times since 1995.
* Honda has played a significant role in making Ohio the second leading producer of auto parts in the U.S.
* 154 Ohio suppliers, located in 52 of the state's 88 counties, supply parts and materials to Honda's North American plants.
* These suppliers made investments in excess of $1.56 billion in Ohio between 1990 and 2002.
* Honda purchases $6.8 billion annually from these Ohio suppliers.
* These suppliers employ a total of 40,776 associates, nearly half of whom are directly involved in manufacturing for Honda.
* These suppliers pay total wages estimated at $1.2 billion annually with approximately $550 million paid to employees directly involved in manufacturing for Honda.
* These workers pay an estimated $38.3 million in state and local income taxes annually, $17.6 million of which are paid by employees directly involved in manufacturing for Honda.
* For each of the 16,049 jobs Honda directly provided in 2003, another seven jobs were generated statewide for a total Ohio employment impact of 128,406 jobs (and a total employment multiplier of 8.0).
* For each $1 Honda paid in wages during 2003, another $3.3 dollars in earnings were generated in Ohio, creating a total earnings multiplier of 4.3.
* Honda's $1.13 billion in wages and salaries paid to its associates in 2003 results in a total Ohio earnings impact of $4.85 billion.
As a result of Honda's long tenure in Ohio, the comprehensive scope of its operations in the state, and the large reliance on Ohio suppliers of parts and raw materials, the economic multiplier effects found here are significantly larger than those found by other comparable studies of automakers in other states.
* The Honda of America Manufacturing and Honda Engineering North America subsidiaries and their associates have paid more than $1 billion in taxes since 1979, and now pay over $100 million annually.
* 53 cities and 43 school districts benefit from the income tax receipts they receive from Honda and its associates.
* Honda's Ohio Facilities are the Hub of North American Operations

 

[outsider]

Buckeyefan1-

thanks for posting that.
I'm pretty sure that my '99 Civic was built in Ohio.

 

[Hi Ho]

My 90 and 95 Civics were both built in Ohio. They are extremely reliable. My 87 Plymouth Voyager was built in Canada and it is a piece of crap (no offence to you Canadians ).

Ford and GM are building cars in Mexico and China now. Ford and GM cars are comparitively cheaper and yet, more people buy Honda and Toyota. Why? Honda and Toyota vehicles are simply more attractive, from the minute details such as soft-touch interior materials to low tolerance panel gaps to the amazing reliability. Ford and GM have a lot of catching up to do. Chrysler has come a long way in the past few years, since they became part of Mercedes Benz... a foreign company.

Then there is Hyundai, they used to be total crap cars but now they are right at Honda/Toyota's doorstep. Hyundai has built several plants in the US with more on the way and their quality seems to be getting better every day.

While this thread is completely off topic, it still pertains to the original question. The bottom line is, it doesn't matter where a product is made. Quality depends on the manufacturers quality control. How many American electronics companies can you name? How many major American electronics companies can you name? Most of the American electronics are botique brands that give you fewer features for more money, due to the costs of manufacturing in this country. Therefore, they are not as big, sell fewer products, and have fewer resources for research and develpment.

 

[Tarub]

Well, let's take a look at SVS and HSU, two of the most well-known sub makers around. I believe SVS subs are made in the US and HSU subs are made in China. Are SVS subs insanely expensive or poorly made? I am not nearly as smart as many of you, but I think the answer is pretty obvious.

I applaud SVS and other companies who continue to make things in America. You can count on me as a customer because it makes me feel good to know that I might help save an American job when I buy your products.

I think HSU sub are made or designed/engineered just less than 18 miles from you. Anaheim, California where the Disneyland (happiest place on earth) is. Maybe the HSU subwoofer parts are made from other countries just like the SVS sub as mentioned by Buckeyefan.
BTW, I live about 15 miles from Anaheim w/c can save me from shipping charges if I order my sub from HSU. But I still got the my PB12-isd/v from SVS 2 months ago. I dont care where all the parts came from on this sub as long as it will rock my house for years and years to come.

______________________________________________
" 'Silent' and 'listen' are spelled with the same letters."

 

[garto]

Its not where that matters but how. Traditionally the US has taken a stance of mass production whereas Japan has taken a stance of lean production. Since most AV recievers and the such don't have optional parts (i.e. all from a single line are produced the same way) this is where it will fall. Of course this was back in the 80's and now many American companies are trying to go lean manufacturing but still they are late to the game. Thats why its cheaper to produce parts overseas and thats how Japan has gotten its reputation for producing high quality parts. Thankfully it has changed but they still lead in finding ways to produce parts for less. Its not always economies of scale that make it cheap, but rather the methods/machines in the plant given the same goal for quality. It always costs more to fix something than it does to get it right the first time, in the long run that is.

 

[sjdgpt]

Quality control is a learning curve issue similar to manufacturing speed.

The first one I make will be slow to make and generally of poor quality. The second one I make will take slightly less time to make and will still be of poor quality. With each unit made the time to make will shrink (improve), but quality is slower to improve than manufacturing speed.

Small cars from the far east are a good example of this theory. Japan was able to cut the manufacturing time (and prices) but quality lagged behind. Eventually quality will (and did) catch up with manufacturing speed.

Anybody is capable of producing a quality item, given enough time to learn. I think China is already well past that point. Now, if we could only tap into the North Korea manufacturing market and drive down consumer prices even further.