Is there "NO COUNTRY" (A/V receiver)for this old man?

[Gatsby191]

Hello all:
I consider myself to be an "Audiophile", if there is such a thing. That being said, I have found that almost any song, from any artist, from every different genre of music, requires a little "Tweaking on the fly". What I mean is: All through my life, I have always found it necessary to adjust the bass, or the treble, or both, on just about any song that I may have playing, until it sounds right to me. That's the whole point to listening to music, right? Well, in my researching of all the great new A/V receivers, I found myself so immersed in all of the HDMI imputs, and the WPC, and every other bell and whistle that these new AVRs come with, that I neglected to notice one very very important thing, that was missing from my new Onkyo TX SR875, before I pulled the trigger back in Sept of 07'. I can not adjust the bass or treble on anything I am listening to, unless I go into the set-up menu for the speakers first, and then choose the calibration levels I want. This causes whatever your listening to, to stop playing through the speakers, until you are finished making your adjustments, and then you must press return, and then playback through the speakers resumes. What the Hell is that all about?!! That is actually worse, because now I have made a guess on what the song needs more or less of, instead of getting it to where I want it by using the only tool that can make the proper decision: MY EARS!!
Am I the only person left, that considers this to be a HUGE problem?! I mean, I thought that seperate bass and treble knobs, were to be a standard feature, on all AVR's, FOREVER! I don't know if seperate EQ's are even used anymore, and I wouldn't use one if they were. And, my 875 has it's own internal EQ anyway, but as you may have guessed from my rant, you have to do the same damn thing to adjust the internal EQ during playback. (go into the set up menu and do the old "guess your best" again on the EQ settings, and hope it'll sound good to you when you hit the return button and playback resumes) So, does anyone know of an AVR for this old man(44) that not only posesses all of the many features that my Onkyo TX SR875 does, but that also features those 2 magnificient little knobs called BASS and TREBLE?? Also, if there is an AVR out there that fits this bill, I have a very well kept and hardly broken in Onkyo TX SR875 that I need to sell...
Am I that old for thinking, that this still really matters?
YIKES! Take it easy all. Joe B.

 

[Exit]

My Yamaha HTR 5890 receiver has separate bass and treble controls but it is a two or three year old model. What I really miss on modern receivers is a tape monitor loop where you can hook up an equalizer or dBx sound processors. I have never used the bass and treble controls on my receiver. The YAPO setup feature does a good job balancing the sound out for my tastes.

 

[trnqk7]

I haven't seen those on a "modern" avr since my parents bought an Onkyo 5xx something like 10 years ago (it didn't even come with dolby digital, just pro logic)...they were handy-but I don't they meet the needs of most "audiophiles" who tend to want a flat response across the spectrum. Multiband eq's allow them to get closer to that than the tone controls you are talking about.

 

[GlocksRock]

You could adjust the bass and treble on my old Yamaha RX-V1600, but not so sure about it on my RX-V1800, as I always left them alone anyway.

 

[Gatsby191]

Things that made my speakers go Boom!

You could adjust the bass and treble on my old Yamaha RX-V1600, but not so sure about it on my RX-V1800, as I always left them alone anyway.

Thanks for the responses so far! Here is an old example of what happened when the Bass was just right at like +5 on the old AC/DC Classic song-"You shook me all night long", and then I forwarded the disc to "Who made who" without adjusting the bass back down a bit on the "Fly" within the first 30 seconds of the song. KABOOM!!! went the woofers on my new R O R's I loved those speakers, and when I went to Flushing, NY (in Queens)to have the guy who actually built them, replace the woofers, he took one look and said(in his heavy Russian Accent) "How da Hell" did you Break deese woofers?!" Turned out, he built speakers for Jimi Hendrix way back when, and also did quite a few projects for the Rolling Stones too. When I think back to that moment(20 years ago, in the days of "Crazy Eddie's"), I always laugh because that old Russian guy told me that Jagger always "Wanting More Bass, More Bass". And with that heavy Russian accent he had, I couldn't help but bust out laughing! Well after he waived his head in disbelief over my "Breaking Da woofers", he replaced the kaboomed woofers, and the speakers were back at 100%. And, today those same speakers are in the kid's house across the street, reaking havoc on his parents ears every night. (Hell!, I gave him my old Onkyo 5067 too!) Hey, How come none of the older guys in my neighborhood gave me any of their old A/V Gear back then?!
Anyway, I will keep on the look out here at Audioholics.com, to see if anyone knows of any of the newer AVR's that have those 2 little knobs that I want so badly. (Bass and Treble)
Take it easy all. Joe B.

 

[brulaha]

You can make on the fly changes to bass and treble on the Denon avr-3808ci and above. You still have to do it by menu as opposed to having separate knobs, however they are located in the audio parameters menu that can be accessed with the click of a button on the remote control. My point is, you don't have to go through the speaker menu to get to them, making them much more accessible, and one of the buttons on the remote is dedicated for getting you to this menu.

I'm not sure if this would be the case with models 2808ci and below as they have a different on screen menu system.

 

[MDS]

I can not adjust the bass or treble on anything I am listening to, unless I go into the set-up menu for the speakers first, and then choose the calibration levels I want. This causes whatever your listening to, to stop playing through the speakers, until you are finished making your adjustments, and then you must press return, and then playback through the speakers resumes.

Are you talking about the Audio Adjust menu? My 502 has the same menu but also has physical buttons on the front labeled 'tone' and +/- for adjusting the bass and treble. The remote has the same buttons.

A prior model had a button on the remote labeled audio adjust and was the same thing, basically a short cut to the audio adjust menu. It looks like the 805 did away with the tone option so the best you could do is create a macro to access the audio adjust menu.

 

[adk highlander]

I have the 885 which is a preamp version of the 875 and if you flip down the door on the front there is a button called tone press that and you can adjust your bass and treble.

 

[mph]

You can make on the fly changes to bass and treble on the Denon avr-3808ci and above. You still have to do it by menu as opposed to having separate knobs, however they are located in the audio parameters menu that can be accessed with the click of a button on the remote control. My point is, you don't have to go through the speaker menu to get to them, making them much more accessible, and one of the buttons on the remote is dedicated for getting you to this menu.

I'm not sure if this would be the case with models 2808ci and below as they have a different on screen menu system.

brulaha,

I'm considering the Denon 3808ci myself. I didn't even realize that tone knobs weren't included anymore. Doah! This is one instance where my slowness to buy could be good. It's been 10+ years since I've done any audio shopping. Can the 3808 can be hooked up to an E.Q. ? I have an old Technics GX 670 receiver that I'm looking to replace where my E.Q. is hooked up via the cassette tape monitor.

And here I thought that I wouldn't need an E.Q. anymore but Gatsby191 brings up a very good point. Listening to some old Doors, who didn't even have a bass player, except Ray Manserick's feet, and going to bass driven bands could reek havoc on the speakers.

Thanks,

 

[TLS Guy]

Hello all:
I consider myself to be an "Audiophile", if there is such a thing. That being said, I have found that almost any song, from any artist, from every different genre of music, requires a little "Tweaking on the fly". What I mean is: All through my life, I have always found it necessary to adjust the bass, or the treble, or both, on just about any song that I may have playing, until it sounds right to me. That's the whole point to listening to music, right? Well, in my researching of all the great new A/V receivers, I found myself so immersed in all of the HDMI imputs, and the WPC, and every other bell and whistle that these new AVRs come with, that I neglected to notice one very very important thing, that was missing from my new Onkyo TX SR875, before I pulled the trigger back in Sept of 07'. I can not adjust the bass or treble on anything I am listening to, unless I go into the set-up menu for the speakers first, and then choose the calibration levels I want. This causes whatever your listening to, to stop playing through the speakers, until you are finished making your adjustments, and then you must press return, and then playback through the speakers resumes. What the Hell is that all about?!! That is actually worse, because now I have made a guess on what the song needs more or less of, instead of getting it to where I want it by using the only tool that can make the proper decision: MY EARS!!
Am I the only person left, that considers this to be a HUGE problem?! I mean, I thought that seperate bass and treble knobs, were to be a standard feature, on all AVR's, FOREVER! I don't know if seperate EQ's are even used anymore, and I wouldn't use one if they were. And, my 875 has it's own internal EQ anyway, but as you may have guessed from my rant, you have to do the same damn thing to adjust the internal EQ during playback. (go into the set up menu and do the old "guess your best" again on the EQ settings, and hope it'll sound good to you when you hit the return button and playback resumes) So, does anyone know of an AVR for this old man(44) that not only posesses all of the many features that my Onkyo TX SR875 does, but that also features those 2 magnificient little knobs called BASS and TREBLE?? Also, if there is an AVR out there that fits this bill, I have a very well kept and hardly broken in Onkyo TX SR875 that I need to sell...
Am I that old for thinking, that this still really matters?
YIKES! Take it easy all. Joe B.

I think those Baxandal tone control circuits are gone for ever on modern digital gear. It is far too expensive you see!

I'll tell you another thing, there is no longer a source of ganged potentiometers off the shelf, only singles. There are firms that will make to special order, if you order a few thousand. I have found away to coble singles together when I need a ganged pot. However it does not work if it has a switch on it. This has made antique restoration more difficult. I would never have thought a ganged pot would ever become a hard to find item.

I see you have a turntable, so you might want to find a good vintage preamp to go between your sources and your receiver. I would particularly recommend the Quad 44. They come up on eBay now and again. Expect to pay around $400 for a good one. The 44 has fantastic RIAA correction, and adjustment for the capacitative load presented to the cartridge and adjustable sensitivity. You can use moving magnet and low output moving coil cartridges. All selectable by switches on top of the unit.

Peter Walker's tone controls were better and much more useful than anybody else's. The Quad 44 tone controls have tilt. Above all even back in the fifties Peter Walker's pre amps had selectable HF roll off frequencies with adjustable slopes. These are indispensable for getting optimum LP reproduction.

There is not one for sale on eBay currently, but a brochure which would give you an idea of the unit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Quad-44-Control-Unit-Brochure-price-list_W0QQitemZ310032681165QQihZ021QQcategoryZ67807QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

If you click on the link in my signature you will see one under the center turntable.

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Hello all:
I consider myself to be an "Audiophile", if there is such a thing. That being said, I have found that almost any song, from any artist, from every different genre of music, requires a little "Tweaking on the fly". What I mean is: All through my life, I have always found it necessary to adjust the bass, or the treble, or both, on just about any song that I may have playing, until it sounds right to me. That's the whole point to listening to music, right?

EVERY FREAKING SONG? No, I don't think that is the point of listening to music. In the dark ages with my parametric equalizer, I dialed in the sound that made my speakers as neutral as possible to the the majority of my music and then I left it alone. To me the point of listening to music was to listen to the music, not monkey with the settings every 5 minutes.

But my feeling is that you listen to the music as neutrally as possible to hear how the artist (and engineer) originally intended it.

I stopped trying to boost the bass sometime in my 20s.

 

[Gatsby191]

YES, EVERY FREAKIN' SONG!! (Ha HA!!) I wasn't talking about just bass. Alot, if not all, recorded music, whether it be on Vinyl, CD, cassette tape, DVD-A, SACD, or whatever!, needs to either be cleaned up or cleaned down.(for lack of a better expression) I have had the opportunity to sit in on a few studio recording sessions(in my 30's and 40's, and not in my 20's). It is a very rare occasion, and a treat, when the commercial copy, of the studio recording, sounds half as real as it did during the musicians actual performance in the studio. Sometimes the BASS is way under what the artist had meant it to be, and sometimes the clarity(aka:Treble), is much more muffled than the artist meant it to be. And, fixing it in the mix, still doesn't "do it" right. So, that's why I find it absolutely necessary to use only the Bass and the Treble knobs, in order to get the TRUE flat response across the board, that I believe the artist intended it to be. Hey, but that's only MHO. Sorry for the poor example on my previous reply. (A/C D/C ) Didn't think anybody would be into my George Benson or Tracy Chapman references instead. Please keep the responses coming. I HAVE TO FIND AN AVR WITH THOSE WONDERFUL LITTLE KNOBS ON THE FRONT!!
Take it easy everyone. Joe B.

 

[TLS Guy]

YES, EVERY FREAKIN' SONG!! (Ha HA!!) I wasn't talking about just bass. Alot, if not all, recorded music, whether it be on Vinyl, CD, cassette tape, DVD-A, SACD, or whatever!, needs to either be cleaned up or cleaned down.(for lack of a better expression) I have had the opportunity to sit in on a few studio recording sessions(in my 30's and 40's, and not in my 20's). It is a very rare occasion, and a treat, when the commercial copy, of the studio recording, sounds half as real as it did during the musicians actual performance in the studio. Sometimes the BASS is way under what the artist had meant it to be, and sometimes the clarity(aka:Treble), is much more muffled than the artist meant it to be. And, fixing it in the mix, still doesn't "do it" right. So, that's why I find it absolutely necessary to use only the Bass and the Treble knobs, in order to get the TRUE flat response across the board, that I believe the artist intended it to be. Hey, but that's only MHO. Sorry for the poor example on my previous reply. (A/C D/C ) Didn't think anybody would be into my George Benson or Tracy Chapman references instead. Please keep the responses coming. I HAVE TO FIND AN AVR WITH THOSE WONDERFUL LITTLE KNOBS ON THE FRONT!!
Take it easy everyone. Joe B.

You really can't get anything flat across the board with those standard tone controls you are talking about. The truth is they are very crude audio devices. If you really need to tweak then you need an equalizer with at least 12 bands.

Usually I use my equalizers during archiving. The controls on the Quad 44 I was talking about will really do an adequate job for most vintage LPs and. tapes. Tapes need the most help. I find for difficult LPs all I need is the slope control on the 44. Personally I have never felt those "wonderful little knobs on the front" very helpful.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...It is a very rare occasion, and a treat, when the commercial copy, of the studio recording, sounds half as real as it did during the musicians actual performance in the studio. Sometimes the BASS is way under what the artist had meant it to be, and sometimes the clarity(aka:Treble), is much more muffled than the artist meant it to be. And, fixing it in the mix, still doesn't "do it" right. So, that's why I find it absolutely necessary to use only the Bass and the Treble knobs, in order to get the TRUE flat response across the board, that I believe the artist intended it to be...

I believe they did at least one study in which the subjects could not even tell the Difference between LIVE MUSIC and music from SPEAKERS.

I think what you need is some high quality speakers like the B&W 802Ds and a high quality receiver like the Denon AVR-5308CI, and set it to PURE DIRECT mode.

Oh, and buy some SACDs and DVD-As too.

Oh, and a SACD/DVD-A player w/ true DSD too.

 

[TLS Guy]

I believe they did at least one study in which the subjects could not even tell the Difference between LIVE MUSIC and music from SPEAKERS.

I think what you need is some high quality speakers like the B&W 802Ds and a high quality receiver like the Denon AVR-5308CI, and set it to PURE DIRECT mode.

Oh, and buy some SACDs and DVD-As too.

Oh, and a SACD/DVD-A player w/ true DSD too.

Actually the Tannoy dual concentric speakers have a following. The Tannoy concentric speakers go back to 1948 and have stood he test of time well. I have not heard the sensys DC2, but have heard relatively recent offerings. They are a little orientated to the pop scene for my tastes, but pretty decent speakers, and well worth a listen.

 

[PENG]

I believe they did at least one study in which the subjects could not even tell the Difference between LIVE MUSIC and music from SPEAKERS.

I think what you need is some high quality speakers like the B&W 802Ds and a high quality receiver like the Denon AVR-5308CI, and set it to PURE DIRECT mode.

Oh, and buy some SACDs and DVD-As too.

Oh, and a SACD/DVD-A player w/ true DSD too.

I have heard some very expensive Tannoys and also the 802D. Neither one of them sound close enough to live music (classical) to me to even wonder if I can tell the difference. To me, it is hard to tell the difference between reasonably well designed amps but not hard at all to tell the difference between speakers, let alone live music. Once I A/B a pair of DefTech and Energy C9 using a Denon 3805 in a high end store, the difference was ridiculously different. So I wonder what those 'subjects' were, who could not tell the difference between speakers and live music. May be it was the way they conducted the comparison.

 

[adk highlander]

I HAVE TO FIND AN AVR WITH THOSE WONDERFUL LITTLE KNOBS ON THE FRONT!!
Take it easy everyone. Joe B.

I guess I was not clear enough in my earlier post. You have a BUTTON on the front of you receiver called TONE (under the door). If you push that button you can adjust the treble and bass for each channel without going into the main menu.

No need to get another receiver.

 

[croseiv]

Since I listen in 5.1 surround, if I need more bass I just increase the subwoofer level in the receiver although my tone controls "flat". Generally though, I don't have to adjust anything.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I have never touched my treb or bass dials....and never adjust anything for specific music.

 

[Gatsby191]

Get some high quality speakers and a high quality Receiver like the Denon AVR-5308CI?

I believe they did at least one study in which the subjects could not even tell the Difference between LIVE MUSIC and music from SPEAKERS.

I think what you need is some high quality speakers like the B&W 802Ds and a high quality receiver like the Denon AVR-5308CI, and set it to PURE DIRECT mode.

Oh, and buy some SACDs and DVD-As too.

Oh, and a SACD/DVD-A player w/ true DSD too.

Not to sound too sarcastic but, Aren't Tannoy's Dual Concentric Sensys Speakers, high quality enough? And, not for nothing but, I narrowed it down to 2 AVRs, being either a new Denon "ci" series or an Onkyo TX series. And since Denon was dragging their feet on their release dates, and I was always a big Onkyo fan anyway, I jumped on the Onkyo 875 as soon as it was available, because it was getting nothing but praise on the reviews I read, and all the features I wanted were on it too. (except the bass and treble knobs that I keep complaining about). I figure the 875 is a HIGH QUALITY enough receiver. Oh, the 875 has a PURE AUDIO setting too BTW. I already have an SACD player too.(it's listed on my signature)
Take it easy all. Joe B.