Is the Yamaha RX-V 2600 enough?

[HTHOLIC]

I have the SVS SBS-01 sound system with a Yamaha RX-V 2600 receiver. I plan to wire all 7 speakers to it and play music,movies,etc through my creative x-fi's sound card- using the multi-channel in.

Is 500 watts enough power from the yamaha?, I don't like playing things too loud- but should I have gotten a seperate amp?, is not really a big spacious place and budget is tight.

 

[Nomo]

That 2600 should have plenty of power.

 

[GlocksRock]

my 1600 has plenty of power, so I'd imagine the 2600 will be enough for you as well, and it has a few more watts/ch. as well.

 

[wilkenboy]

I have the 2500. The 2600 should be just fine.

And if you decide in the future you want to go with something a bit beefier that requires more power you can always use the 2600 as a processor via the pre-outs and go for seperate amplification.

~Josh

 

[tomd51]

It really depends on what you plan to do with it, how large a listening environment your running it in and what your expectations are. The 2600 has some pretty healthy on board amplifiers, so if you're not going to be listening to movies, music, et al at reference level (0 dB) for lengthy periods, it should be just fine.

Just as Wilkenboy noted, you can always choose to use one or more external amp(s) to give you the added horsepower if you're not happy using the built in amplification. The 2600 is an excellent option in this capacity as a pre/pro, I'm currently using the 2500 in this capacity and I'm more than happy with its performance... -TD

 

[AVRat]

The 2600s spec is 130W RMS. You’ll probably be using less than 1W RMS most of the time. The extra power is required for dynamic power spikes in music and movies.

 

[HTHOLIC]

The svs sbs-01 sensitivity is 85db and the center 87db, what exactly does that mean, I know it has something to do with the amound of power. So 1 watt can produce 85db, and what about 86db?

I know for every 10db it sounds "twice as loud"

I have the 16-46 pc plus with the ISD driverr- that is 500 watts rms- do I need a more powerful amplifier to keep up with the Sub's headroom, or can I just put the bass to a low level?

 

[ggunnell]

The SVS speakers are usually packaged with a PB10, with the redesigned PB12 soon to be offered as an option.
The sub you have (and if it says 'plus' and has a 525W amp it does NOT have the ISD driver unless someone has been parts swapping) is larger and more powerful than the subs above that are normally packaged with the SVS speaker system. That's a good thing, as you can run the sub at lower volume settings to match your speakers -- that means less distortion, and more sub headroom available for peaks.
With or without the sub, if you just start turning up your Yamaha the first thing to cry uncle will be the speakers. If you want to play louder cleanly, you'll need to upgrade to more expensive speakers (SVS will have some larger models available hopefully by the end of the year). Hope this helps.

 

[jcPanny]

Speaker sensitivity

The SVS speakers are on the low end of the sensitivity range @ 85 dB @ 1W/1m. A 3 dB increase in volume requires double the power, so your SVS speakers will require twice as much power as an 88 dB speaker to play the same volume.
At the other end of the range are horn loaded speakers like Klipsch that have arround 93 dB @ 1W/1m due to their horn loaded tweeters.

 

[HTHOLIC]

explain that in non technical langauge- to play the system at 90db which can make a person go deaf- all 7 speakers, how much power would that use?

 

[HTHOLIC]

Anybody here to answer the decibel/power question?

 

[AdrianMills]

explain that in non technical langauge- to play the system at 90db which can make a person go deaf- all 7 speakers, how much power would that use?

It seems like a simple question right? But there are a few unknowns here that can influence things a bit.

Anyway, here's a good start;

For every 3dB@1m of loudness you need to double the power output of the amp. So, for speakers with a sensitivity of 85db/1w/1m to play at 88dB@1m the amp would put out 2w. For 91dB@1m the amp would have to put out 4w, and 8w at 94dB@1m. It starts escalating pretty quickly from here to the point that the real sound level differences between a 150w and 500w amp become negligible. But there are then issues of headroom and the like but that’s a different subject.

Aha! I hear you say, but there's a but in here, so hang on a sec. The reason why you always see the "at 1 meter" stressed is that you lose dB's at a rate of knots for every extra meter from the speaker. I think, someone correct me if I'm wrong here, that for every doubling of the distance between yourself and the speaker you lose 6dB. To get 91dB@2m with speakers with a sensitivity of 85dB you'll need 16w because you lost 6dB with distance and had to add 6dB that required 2 doublings - 4Wx2 = 8Wx2 = 16W.

This is one of the reasons why people usually ask "how big the room is" with questions like this.

There's another but though, and that is you can get an increase in the dB's too depending on the room that you're in (that's what people refer to as "in room gain").

So, yes, your amp will probably be ok.

As for the "all 7 speakers". Normal music and HT doesn't drive all the speakers at the same levels at any point in time. Take a read of the "All channels driven fallacy" thread and article. It's cool.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Anybody here to answer the decibel/power question?

At 1 meter distance from the speaker, with 2.83 V applied, that is the spl output. @.83 is used as a standard reference voltage. With an 8 ohm speaker, that would be a 1 watt power input. A 4 hm speaker, it would be 2 watts.

From your example of a 10 dB increase for twice as loud perception, you need 10 times the power.

And, spl will decrease by about 6 dB as you double the distance, so at 2 meters, it will be down 6 dB spl.

For those speakers, the one that is 87 dB, you need 2 watts for 90 dB. But remember, 90 dB constant is very loud

 

[AdrianMills]

Ah yes, I forgot to tell him about the 8/4 ohm load difference and that 4ohm loads require 2x the power of 8ohm loads.

 

[HTHOLIC]

Helpful guys - thanks- I haven't measured my iiving room but its not all that terribly big, I beleive maybe 20x20 with a height of 8 feet, or was it 15 by 15, not that big though- the second estimate is more realistic.

With 7 speakers I should have a lot of headroom, now my debate is whether to use the presence or surround back speakers with the yamaha.

 

[PENG]

Ah yes, I forgot to tell him about the 8/4 ohm load difference and that 4ohm loads require 2x the power of 8ohm loads.

I thought mtrycrafts meant 2.83V, 8 ohms, 1W and 2.83V, 4 ohms, 2W.
That does not mean a 4-ohm speaker needs 2 times the power. It depends.

Example:

Axiom M80
Impedance (Ohms): 4 Ohms
SPL in Room1w/1m(dB): 95 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(dB): 91 dB


Axiom M60
Impedance (Ohms): 8 Ohms
SPL in Room1w/1m(dB): 93 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(dB): 89 dB

You can see that the 4 ohm M80 will give you higher SPL at 1 Watt than the 8 ohm M60. Everything being equal it will draw more currents for sure.

 

[PENG]

Helpful guys - thanks- I haven't measured my iiving room but its not all that terribly big, I beleive maybe 20x20 with a height of 8 feet, or was it 15 by 15, not that big though- the second estimate is more realistic.

With 7 speakers I should have a lot of headroom, now my debate is whether to use the presence or surround back speakers with the yamaha.

Actually, your room is not small. If you listen from say 15 ft away you don't have much headroom with all 7 speakers playing at the same level. For 2 channel music 5.1 movies or even 5.1 SACD/DVD-A, it should be fine for reasons others have already mentioned, but not 5 or 7 CH stereo. I would think that most people don't use the 5,7 CH stereo mode.

 

[AdrianMills]

I thought mtrycrafts meant 2.83V, 8 ohms, 1W and 2.83V, 4 ohms, 2W.
That does not mean a 4-ohm speaker needs 2 times the power. It depends.

Ah yes, I should have qualified that statement with, "all else being equal."

 

[HTHOLIC]

Actually, your room is not small. If you listen from say 15 ft away you don't have much headroom with all 7 speakers playing at the same level. For 2 channel music 5.1 movies or even 5.1 SACD/DVD-A, it should be fine for reasons others have already mentioned, but not 5 or 7 CH stereo. I would think that most people don't use the 5,7 CH stereo mode.

THe room is actually is more like when you walk into a house you just keep going until you hit thte kitchen or wherever, so on both sides it opens up.

I don't know how that will affect acoustics but, I am informed by axiom that space can be great and I have carpeted flooring. Its not like a school classroom where the ceiling affects acoustics- its only 8 feet high I believe.

The question is wouldn't all the 7 speakers be surround you, to give enough headroom. I figure the yamaha rx-v can max out at 500 watts, but let's say the amp is more like 480w dividing by 7 would give you between 60-70 watts per channel. That should be enough right to satisfy a person and not go deaf?

 

[Hi Ho]

My house has an open floor plan with my living room measuring about 16x25 feet, not counting the large openings into the kitechen, the stairwell, and the hallway/bedrooms.

Now, I have a low end Panasonic SA-HE100 that sports "100w/channel". The power rating on my receiver is bull so I'm guessing it probably puts 40-50wpc max. However, I can tell you that it has no trouble playing movies and music at very high levels. I watched Master and Commander not long ago. That gave my system a real workout but it handled it just fine. My speakers are a mix. The fronts are DIY Speakers, the center is an old Advent Smaller Loudspeaker (a VERY innefficient speaker), the rears are Realistic Minimus-7's, and the sub is, yet again, DIY.

My sytem certainly isn't ideal and I would love a receiver like the 2600 (hope to have one some day) but judging by my system, you should be very happy with the 2600.