Is the PB12 worth the $$ over the PB10?

[Sheep]

I think I will. My wife don't care too much for me spending much time on here anyway. I do enjoy it from time to time. I try not to use big terms such as SPL, THD, and such. Most people asking for advise such as this are not familar with those terms. I try to break it down to terms such as I used.



But I am curious as to how a 10" speaker has more distortion than a 12"? Maybe you can post some specs for me. I bet you are thinking of amps.

I still stand by my first answer. The 10 will be more suited for the B&W's. And a wall of 12's will make your house a disco circus! It's all in what you want.

My wife is calling. Off to better things.

Heres your proof.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=50&rid=0&SQ=0

Look at all the subwoofers tested. Then, look at the THD for the different size cones. You'll notice that the larger cones have less THD in the lows then smaller cones. Also, try not to look at the servo controlled ones, as they have the best distortion figures of any of the subwoofers. Just look at non servo subs.

SheepStar

 

[zumbo]

It really depends on the overall design of the sub. A well designed 12" can sound amazing. IMO, 12" is just about right for most situations. The PB-10 is a bit of an exception because it is a surprising sub for the price. A 12 moves more air due to greater surface area, something a 10 just can't make up for no matter what. Given two similar drivers, a 10 should sound cleaner in the upper midrange but not do as well down low.

You Bet.

 

[zumbo]

Heres your proof.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=50&rid=0&SQ=0

Look at all the subwoofers tested. Then, look at the THD for the different size cones. You'll notice that the larger cones have less THD in the lows then smaller cones. Also, try not to look at the servo controlled ones, as they have the best distortion figures of any of the subwoofers. Just look at non servo subs.

SheepStar

Like I said, you are thinking of amps, not subs. Time to study. And while you are learning, practice your communication skills. You came off a little rude. No hard feelings.

 

[Sheep]

Like I said, you are thinking of amps, not subs. Time to study. And while you are learning, practice your communication skills. You came off a little rude. No hard feelings.

Drivers make THD, just like amps. And they make alot more THD then amps.

Driver THD from a sub, sounds "boomy" while amp THD is harsh.

As for rude, your the one who said "posts like this are the reason why I don't come here very often."

If you want to go that route, fine. I'm not going to follow. I just wanted you to know your mistake, so it can be corrected.

SheepStar

 

[zumbo]

I have not yet seen the mistake you are speaking of. I believe all of my statements to be correct thus far. Looks as though j_garcia agrees with me somewhat, except for the preference. And that is why I tried to explain the characteristics somewhat, using the term "boomy". To give a reason as to why I prefer the sound of a 10" over a 12". Two, to be exact. They tend to have a tighter, punchier sound.

 

[zumbo]

And I believe drivers reproduce THD that the amp makes. I can see how a 12" would reproduce more THD connected to an identical amp as a 10". The same way it will produce more BOOM, move more air. If you take a raw driver and place it on the floor, how can it produce THD? It can't. It reproduces it once it is connected to a source.

 

[Sheep]

"A 12 moves more air due to greater surface area, something a 10 just can't make up for no matter what. Given two similar drivers, a 10 should sound cleaner in the upper midrange but not do as well down low"

First, he doesn't agree with you (sorry if it sounds like I'm speaking for him)

Upper midrange is 50Hz-up.

ALL subs that are decent have low THD 50Hz up.

Now, A 12inch driver has to move less to create the same bass output of a similar 10. Thusly, the driver isn't moving as much, less THD, less GD. NO if ands or buts.

As for the amp being the difference, take a look at these SERVO controlled subs, they use the same amp.

DD15:
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=14733&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0

DD18:
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=13377&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0

The DD18 has less THD down low, but they use the same amp. Under your train of thought, they should have the same THD, because the amp is the same, but they don't. Does this mean the driver makes a difference? Yes.

No hard feelings

SheepStar

 

[zumbo]

I don't seem to understand why your THD discussion has anything to do with the terms I used to describe why I prefer the 10" sub. Why does that bother you? The explination that j_garcia gave is the EXACT reason I prefer the sound of a 10" driver. Your reasoning can not, and will not change what my ears prefer.

No hard feelings.

 

[zumbo]

Did you know that Bose uses a 5 & 1/4" sub.

 

[Sheep]

Did you know that Bose uses a 5 & 1/4" sub.

Yes, its scary.

Some of them have 3 drivers in each. There new powered units sound alright, but they have nothing below 40Hz, there powered midbass modules.

The Only reason why I have a problem with your statement is because you said Boomy. THD=Boom. Whether its amp or driver, its boom. So if you want to say the sub is louder, say SPL, or louder. You might confuse someone because alot of people relate Boom with THD.

Friends?

SheepStar

 

[zumbo]

Friends.

 

[Matt34]

Too cute

 

[mulester7]

.....kinda' makes you think about puppies, huh?.......

 

[Sheep]

.....kinda' makes you think about puppies, huh?.......

Not at the beginning of the stand off

SheepStar

 

[mulester7]

Not at the beginning of the stand off

SheepStar

.....Sheep, my good man, we're sitting around a table on the patio sipping coffee....I'd say we don't want stand-offs, actually....just questions, answers, and comments, as hopefully we are in the attitude of learning....and, enjoying ourselves, with some humor mixed in....good time to be had that way, I think....attitude is everything.....

 

[Sheep]

.....Sheep, my good man, we're sitting around a table on the patio sipping coffee....I'd say we don't want stand-offs, actually....just questions, answers, and comments, as hopefully we are in the attitude of learning....and, enjoying ourselves, with some humor mixed in....good time to be had that way, I think....attitude is everything.....

I don't think it got ugly, or I've seen worse.....privateer....

SheepStar

 

[silversurfer]

More food for thought:

Bigger cones have more mass which make them harder to start and stop.

 

[Sheep]

More food for thought:

Bigger cones have more mass which make them harder to start and stop.

Generally have more power too though.

Besides, My links clearly showed a difference in THD between a 15 and 18, and the 18 won.

SheepStar

 

[silversurfer]

yeah...but your links don't show anything about transient response.

and when you talk about more power, you are talking about the amp and magnet.

It is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

 

[Sheep]

yeah...but your links don't show anything about transient response.

and when you talk about more power, you are talking about the amp and magnet.

It is not as cut and dry as you make it out to be.

How can I make it more? Its the same everything cept box size and driver size...

All the materials are the same.

I thought TR showed up in THD. But, I think the DD's are fairly good when its comes to that.

Besides, that mass difference is soo small bringing it up is a moot point. Definately between a 15 and 18. Maybe audible with 10 and 18.


SheepStar