Is Sub really needed?

O

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic Chief
A
Your L100t's go down to about 40Hz at -3db as I recall. I've got the t3's and for sure these speakers will deliver most if not all there is of deep bass from LPs. But, here's the rub, Dance Music on CD and Movies have bass or sound effects which dig deeper than where the JBL L100's in any flavor can reach. It's why I supplemented my pair with a 15" JBL B380 Passive Sub, which I powered with a Sony TA-N80ES, operating in bridged mode to deliver 560 watts at 8 ohms. Now, this sub gets into the 24 Hz arena at -6db and has paid off on Dance Music, Jazz with Double Bass, and, of course, movie sound effects, greatly enhancing my overall listening/viewing pleasure. I have the mains set to crossover at 60Hz which is what JBL recommended. And, thus, with the sub set for 60Hz, the bass is seamless to higher frequencies and there are is no pumping effect. The bottom line is a sub will indeed get you lower bass than your L100t's will deliver but you'll get nothing from it if mains are set to deliver full frequency and frequency only gets down into the 50Hz arena.View attachment 32782
And your house is pretty. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Your observations are valid on all counts. Yes, in some aspects of design a lot of offerings from the last 20 plus years have gone backwards, but progressed in others. There is a reason a lot of the better older speakers get snapped up quickly on eBay.

The problem with a speaker like that Magico in the AV arena is how to properly capture and make use of the LFE channel. This is a problem I have solved and also the issue of precisely setting BSC to room and above all position in the room from boundaries. So I have a few tricks up my sleeve they don't.
Well, Magico does sell subs to help out. They're ridiculously overpriced and some bullshit in their claims it seems....
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
You're glossing over a couple issues that can happen with mains handling the LFE channel. My current layout for my mains has some cancellation issues in the low frequencies that they can produce. Off loading that part of the spectrum to my subwoofer and crossing them out appropriately fixes this issue and restores some of the missing content (only running 1 subwoofer, so I still have some areas for improvement).

The other area is cost. You can save a lot of money by giving up low bass reproduction in your main speakers by having a subwoofer handle it. A correctly setup subwoofer and main speakers can sound just as good as full fledged main speakers as long as you're comparing equals - can't compare bose cubes to a $60,000 pair of towers. Obviously the more each speaker can handle the better, but if you look at diminishing returns a sub/sat setup can still sound nearly as good, as long as the speakers in question are capable in the frequencies they are set to play.

SheepStar
 
B

Boyer

Audiophyte
I may give it another try someday, mainly listen to music. The movies I watched the JBL's seen to be plenty good for me. I like the cleaner sound from the floor standing speakers over the sub (at least that time)
the L100T's Frequency Response: 35Hz to 20kHz
Thanks for all the advice and input
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah, but you don't make your cabinets out of 1/2" thick aluminum and give them automotive-class finishes. Not that I'm arguing aluminum cabinets sound better, but if you want metal sculpture this is what it costs.
For another aluminum cabinet which does not have the aesthetics of the Magico's but which has more reasonable prices, there are the YG Acoustics speakers which actually have an excellent sound performance:

 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
For another aluminum cabinet which does not have the aesthetics of the Magico's but which has more reasonable prices, there are the YG Acoustics speakers which actually have an excellent sound performance:

More reasonable prices from YG? You obviously haven't looked yet. Their cheapest model, the Carmel 2, is US$24K per pair, while the ridiculous Sonja 2.2 is about US$106K per pair. I think I'll pass. ;-)
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic General
More reasonable prices from YG? You obviously haven't looked yet. Their cheapest model, the Carmel 2, is US$24K per pair, while the ridiculous Sonja 2.2 is about US$106K per pair. I think I'll pass. ;-)
LOL, I was thinking the same thing !
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Samurai
More reasonable prices from YG? You obviously haven't looked yet. Their cheapest model, the Carmel 2, is US$24K per pair, while the ridiculous Sonja 2.2 is about US$106K per pair. I think I'll pass. ;-)
Me too ! :)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
For another aluminum cabinet which does not have the aesthetics of the Magico's but which has more reasonable prices, there are the YG Acoustics speakers which actually have an excellent sound performance:

You sent me down a rabbit hole with that link, lol. Despite the ridiculous pricing, holy poop. They look very impressive. Surely they do sound good too?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
You sent me down a rabbit hole with that link, lol. Despite the ridiculous pricing, holy poop. They look very impressive. Surely they do sound good too?
I heard a pair of YG speakers about eight or nine years ago, but not the current generation. They were the top of the line Sonja predecessor, the Anat II. (In case you're wondering about the weird model names, though the YGs are made in the US, the founder (Yoav Geva) is of Israeli descent, and Anat is a popular female name in Israel.) They were installed in a private home. The owner had a couple of CDs I was familiar with, and they sounded really excellent. Similar to the Salon2s, but of course about 5x the price. The bass seemed significantly more powerful than the Revels, but this pair had the powered integrated subwoofers, and I think they were adjusted rather hot. I remember the owner saying each speaker weighed about 400lbs. They did sound good, they certainly looked like industrial artwork, but honestly they didn't sound all *that* much better than the Revels, certainly not enough to make me jealous, of the sound at least.
 
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