Is my older Denon amp powerful enough

[JamesC]

Hi
I'm interested in building a elac debut surround system and was
wondering if my amp is going to be powerful enough to run the f5's. I
Have a denon AVR - 1713 . Denon’s quoted power output is 120W per
channel (into 6ohms) on this particular model. Any input would be
appreciated.
Also my room is rather narrow. Sitting position is probably 11 feet
from the tv and the speakers would be probably be about 7.5 feet
apart.

Thank you for any information

 

[lovinthehd]

What listening levels are you aiming at? What's the impedance of the speakers? Why do you want to build an Elac based system?

 

[JamesC]

The ELACs seemed to fit my budget. I think the ELACs were 6 ohms. Listening levels would be moderate. Hoping a balance of music and movies

 

[JamesC]

What listening levels are you aiming at? What's the impedance of the speakers? Why do you want to build an Elac based system?

Opps I meant to post a reply. The ELACs seemed to fit my budget. I think the ELACs were 6 ohms. Listening levels would be moderate. Hoping a balance of music and movies

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, moderate means different things to different people, we generally discuss in spl (sound pressure levels) measured in dB pegged to a reference level. The distance between you and the speaker as well as the speaker's sensitivity come into play. Seems to me many Elac speakers are better described as 4 ohm (try and find an impedance plot vs frequency since it will vary all over the place across the spectrum of frequencies). Personally seems Elac gets a lot of good PR but seems not as many excited about their experiences as one might think from the PR push. There's lots of good alternatives out there....

Don't remember how well the 1713 would handle 4 ohm, altho many Denon avrs do okay with such, but the lower end avrs not so much. At moderate levels (to me that would mean a movie played back at say -30dB from reference), it may not matter, but as you ask for more volume that can change....and moderate to you may mean -20dB which requires 10x the power...

Try this spl calculator to start to get an idea of how the relationship of power, sensitivity, distance and level can change things. Assume the sensitivity rating of your speakers is a bit over-rated is a good idea, maybe add 3dB to make it more realistic.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

 

[JamesC]

Thank

Well, moderate means different things to different people, we generally discuss in spl (sound pressure levels) measured in dB pegged to a reference level. The distance between you and the speaker as well as the speaker's sensitivity come into play. Seems to me many Elac speakers are better described as 4 ohm (try and find an impedance plot vs frequency since it will vary all over the place across the spectrum of frequencies). Personally seems Elac gets a lot of good PR but seems not as many excited about their experiences as one might think from the PR push. There's lots of good alternatives out there....

Don't remember how well the 1713 would handle 4 ohm, altho many Denon avrs do okay with such, but the lower end avrs not so much. At moderate levels (to me that would mean a movie played back at say -30dB from reference), it may not matter, but as you ask for more volume that can change....and moderate to you may mean -20dB which requires 10x the power...

Try this spl calculator to start to get an idea of how the relationship of power, sensitivity, distance and level can change things. Assume the sensitivity rating of your speakers is a bit over-rated is a good idea, maybe add 3dB to make it more realistic.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

Thank you for the information with the calculator. I’ve been researching speakers like crazy and I wondered if the ELACs were as good as the pr said they were. Were I live my options for speakers are extremely limited. In Canada with only amazon and bestbuy to choose from. The ELACs f5’s were on for 291 each and the same for the b5’s. Been driving myself crazy a bit as a upgrade to my system doesn’t happen very often.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank

Thank you for the information with the calculator. I’ve been researching speakers like crazy and I wondered if the ELACs were as good as the pr said they were. Were I live my options for speakers are extremely limited. In Canada with only amazon and bestbuy to choose from. The ELACs f5’s were on for 291 each and the same for the b5’s. Been driving myself crazy a bit as a upgrade to my system doesn’t happen very often.

What do you already have? I know choices up north a bit less than what we enjoy down here, particularly subs. You do have some nice home grown speaker companies like PSB, Paridigm tho (or Funk if you've got the $$). I personally have not heard Elacs (long drive to hear much of anything these days) but largely am not impressed by owners after they've used them a while. I know Andrew Jones is well known, particularly for the line he did at Pioneer, and all that, but....

 

[JamesC]

What do you already have? I know choices up north a bit less than what we enjoy down here, particularly subs. You do have some nice home grown speaker companies like PSB, Paridigm tho (or Funk if you've got the $$). I personally have not heard Elacs (long drive to hear much of anything these days) but largely am not impressed by owners after they've used them a while. I know Andrew Jones is well known, particularly for the line he did at Pioneer, and all that, but....

I have jamo s426 system right now but I think I blew a surround speaker. I think I would have access to psb,paradigm, never heard of funk. 2001audiovideo have a website but never had any feedback from them.

 

[lovinthehd]

Funk offers some very high end stuff, both wood working as well as amps/subs/speakers, a bit expensive but high performance and beautiful (IMO)....https://www.funkaudio.ca/

 

[JamesC]

Funk offers some very high end stuff, both wood working as well as amps/subs/speakers, a bit expensive but high performance and beautiful (IMO)....https://www.funkaudio.ca/

Way out of my budget for those I think

 

[lovinthehd]

Way out of my budget for those I think

Figured as much, out of my budget too, I build my own subs...I'm thrifty like that. As to the Jamo s426 set is that like this http://www.jamo.com/products/s426hcs3 ? Do you have a sub?

 

[JamesC]

Figured as much, out of my budget too, I build my own subs...I'm thrifty like that. As to the Jamo s426 set is that like this http://www.jamo.com/products/s426hcs3 ? Do you have a sub?

Yep those are the ones. My sub is a Klipsch kw100

 

[JamesC]

Yep those are the ones. My sub is a Klipsch kw100

I wasn’t overly impressed with the sub. I blew a few fuses.

 

[lovinthehd]

Klipsch subs aren't the best. Maybe their latest R-112SW/R-115SW models if you get a significant discount. I also have an older RW-12d myself, was a good experience but only at the price $300 delivered.

Took a look at the product page for the F5 Debut Elac as well (that the right model?). I'm thinking more a lateral move from your Jamo than a significant upgrade but again no particular experience. Might get more satisfaction from a better sub involved....

 

[JamesC]

Klipsch subs aren't the best. Maybe their latest R-112SW/R-115SW models if you get a significant discount. I also have an older RW-12d myself, was a good experience but only at the price $300 delivered.

Took a look at the product page for the F5 Debut Elac as well (that the right model?). I'm thinking more a lateral move from your Jamo than a significant upgrade but again no particular experience. Might get more satisfaction from a better sub involved....

That’s good to know. Not sure what I’m going to do. I was hoping the ELACs would be a significant increase in preformance.

 

[JamesC]

That was the right model.

 

[lovinthehd]

That’s good to know. Not sure what I’m going to do. I was hoping the ELACs would be a significant increase in preformance.

Any way to take the Elacs home for an in-home trial for better comparison as to what in your room they will do for you?

 

[JamesC]

Any way to take the Elacs home for an in-home trial for better comparison as to what in your room they will do for you?

Ok thank you so much for your time

 

[JamesC]

Any way to take the Elacs home for an in-home trial for better comparison as to what in your room they will do for you?

Opps I didn’t realize that was a question. I’m not sure if I would have to pay return shipping on amazon. I was looking at kef q700s for 799 but would have to drive 3 hrs to see them. Or paradigm monitor 7’s for 795.00. Might be a bit over budget

 

[PENG]

Opps I didn’t realize that was a question. I’m not sure if I would have to pay return shipping on amazon. I was looking at kef q700s for 799 but would have to drive 3 hrs to see them. Or paradigm monitor 7’s for 795.00. Might be a bit over budget

Did you use the spl calculator to find out the power you need? If not, if we know your room dimensions and sitting distance from the L/R speakers we can answer you question too.

The Elac F5's impedance is rated 6 ohm, you can bet they probably are closer to 4 ohm nominal. The sensitivity is 85 dB/2.83v/1m, so in general I would say the AVR-1712 can do okay in a small room, but let's see the calculator result and/or your room dimensions just to be sure. It is also safe to say the F5s are not designed to play loud at all, except in small to small medium rooms sitting not much more than 2 meters. I think they would sound more musical to Klipsch in the same price range, but I am guessing.