Is it worth upgrading crossovers

[isolar8001]

Damn it...I just got my Solen 16uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitors in for my Advents today, and was going in for surgery tomorrow.
Where the hell have those two pdf's been all my life ???

 

[Swerd]

Where the hell have those two pdf's been all my life ???

Like nearly all audio snake oil, that first PDF is largely non-sense, based on a shred of truth that has been well known for many decades.

That second PDF is complete non-sense. It says absolutely nothing at all. None of the graphs define what is being measured. It shows numbers, but there are no units at all.

 

[isolar8001]

Like nearly all audio snake oil, that first PDF is largely non-sense, based on a shred of truth that has been well known for many decades.

That second PDF is complete non-sense. It says absolutely nothing at all. None of the graphs define what is being measured. It shows numbers, but there are no units at all.
View attachment 63072

I know....I heard someone going on about part of that in the early eighties...

 

[HuenEye]

Like nearly all audio snake oil, that first PDF is largely non-sense, based on a shred of truth that has been well known for many decades.

That second PDF is complete non-sense. It says absolutely nothing at all. None of the graphs define what is being measured. It shows numbers, but there are no units at all.
View attachment 63072

And I thought I was the only one who thought this was BS. I also couldn't understand the points he was making.


The best crossovers are those that are the simplest - I use 2nd order and match my impedance/phase against those that are published by John Atkinson for those fancy ones in those $$$$$$$$$$ speakers. (I do use the same equipment).

My impedance and phase responses are almost flat and every circuit I installed like Zobel made everything worse with sometimes wildly varying impedance and phase shifts. Look at Atkinson's graphs.

 

[TLS Guy]

And I thought I was the only one who thought this was BS. I also couldn't understand the points he was making.


The best crossovers are those that are the simplest - I use 2nd order and match my impedance/phase against those that are published by John Atkinson for those fancy ones in those $$$$$$$$$$ speakers. (I do use the same equipment).

My impedance and phase responses are almost flat and every circuit I installed like Zobel made everything worse with sometimes wildly varying impedance and phase shifts. Look at Atkinson's graphs.

The answer is that you need a crossover that does the job, to result in an even transition between drivers and keeps the drivers out of break up range. So it takes the orders you need to do the job. Once you have selected promising drivers that can be crossed over, and many combinations can't, then you set about the networks that does the job the best. You do not go into it with notions about which orders are best.

 

[highfigh]

And I thought I was the only one who thought this was BS. I also couldn't understand the points he was making.


The best crossovers are those that are the simplest - I use 2nd order and match my impedance/phase against those that are published by John Atkinson for those fancy ones in those $$$$$$$$$$ speakers. (I do use the same equipment).

My impedance and phase responses are almost flat and every circuit I installed like Zobel made everything worse with sometimes wildly varying impedance and phase shifts. Look at Atkinson's graphs.

If you used a Zobel for something other than taming a peak, I would ask why you used it at all. How wide was the range that these operated in? Was it simply a notch filter, or was it broader than that?

 

[TLS Guy]

If you used a Zobel for something other than taming a peak, I would ask why you used it at all. How wide was the range that these operated in? Was it simply a notch filter, or was it broader than that?

The purpose of a zobel network is to flatten the rise of impedance of a woofer with frequency so that the crossover can low pass. However, it is not usually the best way of doing it, there are usually better options.

 

[highfigh]

The purpose of a zobel network is to flatten the rise of impedance of a woofer with frequency so that the crossover can low pass. However, it is not usually the best way of doing it, there are usually better options.

I know what it's used for and that it's created by (hopefully) selecting the components based on the needs of the system. Some people use these as a notch filter, which isn't the correct application.

I have known people who ONLY used one order of crossover, refusing to accept the idea that something else might be better.

 

[HuenEye]

If you used a Zobel for something other than taming a peak, I would ask why you used it at all. How wide was the range that these operated in? Was it simply a notch filter, or was it broader than that?

I no longer use anything in the crossover other than the crossovers and attenuation. I found that adding zobel or contouring filters have serious impacts on impedance and phase as measured by my DATS3 making the speakers harder to drive. I use my ears to voice the speakers and after I'm satisfied I'll use REW to see how smooth the frequency response is. I crank up the bass by about 6dBs to compensate for the lack of bass in LPs - especially earlier rock releases. I follow my own path and so far my ideas have been successful with minor revisions.