Is Denon Correct About This?

[John Lohmann]

A "Tier 2" engineer I have made contact with at Denon/Marantz said some things that kind of go against a few standards I always thought were gospel (with regard to AVRs and impedance/sensitivity). Primarily:

Low sensitivity makes it difficult to drive. Low impedance actually makes it much easier to drive. But you have to be careful because the increase in power going to lower impedance speakers can be dangerous if it suddenly becomes too much power.

And:

Yeah. This is a common misconception. Regardless of which setting you choose the receiver is going to present the same amount of power, but lower impedance speakers will be able to use more of it. The 8, 6 and 4 Ohm setting is just there to tell the receiver what to expect. It does change how some of the power handled, but I am not clear on exactly what is different. I just know the same amount of power is available either way, but if you do use the recommended setting with lower Ohm rated speakers you are less likely to have the unit over heat and suffer potential damage as a result.

And:

If all of your speakers are 8 Ohms, then you can safely ignore this setting. If even one of them is 6 or 4, then you should be using it.

I was under the impression -- and someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- that low impedance makes a speaker MORE DIFFICULT to drive, not easier, as he suggested. With regard to the ohm settings, he provided that response after I asked about always keeping an amp/AVR on 8 ohms regardless of what's connected -- he's claiming that it's a misconception that AVRs should always be kept at 8 ohms (if selectable) so they always put out the most power. I was always under the impression that setting should ALWAYS be 8 ohms, but he's saying if ONE of my speakers are 6 or 4 (which none are, as far as I am aware), that ohm selector should definitely be taken OFF 8...

Any thoughts on this?

 

[Verdinut]

A "Tier 2" engineer I have made contact with at Denon/Marantz said some things that kind of go against a few standards I always thought were gospel (with regard to AVRs and impedance/sensitivity). Primarily:

Low sensitivity makes it difficult to drive. Low impedance actually makes it much easier to drive. But you have to be careful because the increase in power going to lower impedance speakers can be dangerous if it suddenly becomes too much power.

And:

Yeah. This is a common misconception. Regardless of which setting you choose the receiver is going to present the same amount of power, but lower impedance speakers will be able to use more of it. The 8, 6 and 4 Ohm setting is just there to tell the receiver what to expect. It does change how some of the power handled, but I am not clear on exactly what is different. I just know the same amount of power is available either way, but if you do use the recommended setting with lower Ohm rated speakers you are less likely to have the unit over heat and suffer potential damage as a result.

And:

If all of your speakers are 8 Ohms, then you can safely ignore this setting. If even one of them is 6 or 4, then you should be using it.

I was under the impression -- and someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- that low impedance makes a speaker MORE DIFFICULT to drive, not easier, as he suggested. With regard to the ohm settings, he provided that response after I asked about always keeping an amp/AVR on 8 ohms regardless of what's connected -- he's claiming that it's a misconception that AVRs should always be kept at 8 ohms (if selectable) so they always put out the most power. I was always under the impression that setting should ALWAYS be 8 ohms, but he's saying if ONE of my speakers are 6 or 4 (which none are, as far as I am aware), that ohm selector should definitely be taken OFF 8...

Any thoughts on this?

Have a look at the info contained in this link:

Setting the A/V Receiver Impedance Selector Switch

This article explores the purpose and function of the impedance switch found on some A/V receivers. Tradeoffs of following manufacturers recommended settings are also discussed. YouTube video inside.

www.audioholics.com

 

[John Lohmann]

Thanks, Verdi.

 

[lovinthehd]

A "Tier 2" engineer I have made contact with at Denon/Marantz said some things that kind of go against a few standards I always thought were gospel (with regard to AVRs and impedance/sensitivity). Primarily:

Low sensitivity makes it difficult to drive. Low impedance actually makes it much easier to drive. But you have to be careful because the increase in power going to lower impedance speakers can be dangerous if it suddenly becomes too much power.

And:

Yeah. This is a common misconception. Regardless of which setting you choose the receiver is going to present the same amount of power, but lower impedance speakers will be able to use more of it. The 8, 6 and 4 Ohm setting is just there to tell the receiver what to expect. It does change how some of the power handled, but I am not clear on exactly what is different. I just know the same amount of power is available either way, but if you do use the recommended setting with lower Ohm rated speakers you are less likely to have the unit over heat and suffer potential damage as a result.

And:

If all of your speakers are 8 Ohms, then you can safely ignore this setting. If even one of them is 6 or 4, then you should be using it.

I was under the impression -- and someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- that low impedance makes a speaker MORE DIFFICULT to drive, not easier, as he suggested. With regard to the ohm settings, he provided that response after I asked about always keeping an amp/AVR on 8 ohms regardless of what's connected -- he's claiming that it's a misconception that AVRs should always be kept at 8 ohms (if selectable) so they always put out the most power. I was always under the impression that setting should ALWAYS be 8 ohms, but he's saying if ONE of my speakers are 6 or 4 (which none are, as far as I am aware), that ohm selector should definitely be taken OFF 8...

Any thoughts on this?

I think your "engineer" is out of his league.

 

[Mike Up]

Sounds more like a call center drone.

Ohms law, low imedance will draw higher current. High current draw is harder on receivers and why there are separate power amplifiers. Impedance switch lowers the rail voltage, so less current is needed. In the end a large power cut from the rated per channel power output. These are called Nannys that Gene likes to talk about.

Low sensitivity speakers ~ 85db to 86db 1 watt/1 meter and/or low impedance speakers, 4 ohm, are hard to drive to loud levels for most receivers.

My Polk TL1s are right around 85 db in room while polk rated them at 89 db. I only have them in my smaller media room as main speakers. I do use them in both my main and media center theater systems for surround speakers. They are tiny, 2-1/2" woofer and 1/2" soft tweeter.

 

[John Lohmann]

Sounds more like a call center drone.

He isn't, I'm sure, but I appreciate your input. I concur that some of what he said didn't really add up; just wanted to know if anyone else felt the same way.

 

[PENG]

He isn't, I'm sure, but I appreciate your input. I concur that some of what he said didn't really add up; just wanted to know if anyone else felt the same way.

He's right about certain things he said but wrong, or at least confusing, in others. Overall no big deal, probably good and useful enough to some, but might also confuse some Denon AVR owners, depending on their EE knowledge level.

 

[highfigh]

A "Tier 2" engineer I have made contact with at Denon/Marantz said some things that kind of go against a few standards I always thought were gospel (with regard to AVRs and impedance/sensitivity). Primarily:

Low sensitivity makes it difficult to drive. Low impedance actually makes it much easier to drive. But you have to be careful because the increase in power going to lower impedance speakers can be dangerous if it suddenly becomes too much power.

And:

Yeah. This is a common misconception. Regardless of which setting you choose the receiver is going to present the same amount of power, but lower impedance speakers will be able to use more of it. The 8, 6 and 4 Ohm setting is just there to tell the receiver what to expect. It does change how some of the power handled, but I am not clear on exactly what is different. I just know the same amount of power is available either way, but if you do use the recommended setting with lower Ohm rated speakers you are less likely to have the unit over heat and suffer potential damage as a result.

And:

If all of your speakers are 8 Ohms, then you can safely ignore this setting. If even one of them is 6 or 4, then you should be using it.

I was under the impression -- and someone please correct me if I'm wrong -- that low impedance makes a speaker MORE DIFFICULT to drive, not easier, as he suggested. With regard to the ohm settings, he provided that response after I asked about always keeping an amp/AVR on 8 ohms regardless of what's connected -- he's claiming that it's a misconception that AVRs should always be kept at 8 ohms (if selectable) so they always put out the most power. I was always under the impression that setting should ALWAYS be 8 ohms, but he's saying if ONE of my speakers are 6 or 4 (which none are, as far as I am aware), that ohm selector should definitely be taken OFF 8...

Any thoughts on this?

What makes you think he's an actual engineer?

 

[John Lohmann]

He's right about certain things he said but wrong, or at least confusing, in others. Overall no big deal, probably good and useful enough to some, but might also confuse some Denon AVR owners, depending on their EE knowledge level.

Certainly didn't mean to confuse any Denon owners or anyone else for that matter; was just looking for confirmation because his input seemed contradictory to everything I've ever read about certain aspects of ohms and sensitivity.

 

[John Lohmann]

What makes you think he's an actual engineer?

My inquiry was stepped up beyond consumer level assistance to what Denon called a "Tier 2 Engineer," and some of the things he was saying in response to certain questions I had -- beyond the ohms and sensitivity aspects -- wouldn't have been easily known by a customer service rep at the basic consumer level. I could just tell; there was no way he could have answered certain queries the way he did without some kind of significant knowledge about how these machines operate.

At any rate, I'm just going to sleep soundly continuing to think that lower sensitivity speakers are more difficult to drive, as are those with lower nominal ohm ratings.

 

[PENG]

Certainly didn't mean to confuse any Denon owners or anyone else for that matter; was just looking for confirmation because his input seemed contradictory to everything I've ever read about certain aspects of ohms and sensitivity.

Again, he's not right about everything, but "seemed contradictory to everything" you've ever read about? That also don't seem right. For example, he said "Low sensitivity makes it difficult to drive. Low impedance actually makes it much easier to drive. But you have to be careful because the increase in power going to lower impedance speakers can be dangerous if it suddenly becomes too much power. "

that's mostly correct, except the highlighted part, while not exactly wrong, is certainly confusing. It is not exactly wrong because lower impedance means more current for the same voltage, so it is easier as long as the amplifier has the ability to deliver the current.

He is also right about "This is a common misconception. " Those who know me electronically, will know that I have made similar points in the past.

Technically speaking, he was mostly correct in what he said. If there is a specific part he stated that you have trouble understanding, or agreeing to, let me know and may be I can help.

If it is about 4 ohm nominal vs 8 ohm nominal, then of course on all else being equal basis the 4 ohm load would draw twice as much current, but if you lower the voltage to maintain the same current, then the amp could actually see less power draw.

 

[j_garcia]

To what Peng said, the issue being that if the amp/AVR can't deliver the power for a 4 Ohm load at a given SPL, you are more likely to actually encounter an issue like frying a tweeter. The issue is not the low impedance speaker, it is the choice of amplification that is the problem. Explaining that to people in simple terms is harder than just to say that low impedance speakers are technically harder to drive.

Low SENSITIVITY speakers are a different animal. They also need more power to achieve higher SPL.

 

[John Lohmann]

Again, he's not right about everything, but "seemed contradictory to everything" you've ever read about? That also don't seem right.

What I meant by that was I have read, during my tenure in this hobby, that AVRs and amps should always be set to 8 ohms, regardless of situation, and that low sensitivity speakers are difficult to drive -- it SEEMED, as I read his replies, that what he was saying was somewhat in contradiction to what is often offered in these forums. That's all. I didn't mean to confuse anyone or elicit any wrinkled feathers.

For example, he said "Low sensitivity makes it difficult to drive. Low impedance actually makes it much easier to drive. But you have to be careful because the increase in power going to lower impedance speakers can be dangerous if it suddenly becomes too much power. "

that's mostly correct, except the highlighted part, while not exactly wrong, is certainly confusing. It is not exactly wrong because lower impedance means more current for the same voltage, so it is easier as long as the amplifier has the ability to deliver the current.

He is also right about "This is a common misconception. " Those who know me electronically, will know that I have made similar points in the past.

Okay, well I don't personally KNOW you, electronically, so my apologies; I was merely trying to wrap my head around whether it was true that every system should be set to 8 ohms, regardless of what ohm speakers are connected, or not.

Technically speaking, he was mostly correct in what he said. If there is a specific part he stated that you have trouble understanding, or agreeing to, let me know and may be I can help.

If it is about 4 ohm nominal vs 8 ohm nominal, then of course on all else being equal basis the 4 ohm load would draw twice as much current, but if you lower the voltage to maintain the same current, then the amp could actually see less power draw.

Without getting too technical, what I wanted to know was:

1. Should an AVR, as equipped with such a selector, always be set to 8 ohms even if speakers connected are of less ohm value

and

2. Are lower-sensitivity speakers actually a bit more difficult to drive?

 

[John Lohmann]

To what Peng said, the issue being that if the amp/AVR can't deliver the power for a 4 Ohm load at a given SPL, you are more likely to actually encounter an issue like frying a tweeter. The issue is not the low impedance speaker, it is the choice of amplification that is the problem. Explaining that to people in simple terms is harder than just to say that low impedance speakers are technically harder to drive.

In the end, I didn't mean for it to get so "in the weeds;" I suppose the thread has run its course. You mentioned "explaining that to people in simple terms is harder than just...." but it's been my experience that most folks in forums like this often say "Just leave the AVR on 8 ohms, no matter what," which is why some confusion seeped in (even though I didn't intend there to be).

Low SENSITIVITY speakers are a different animal. They also need more power to achieve higher SPL.

Thanks for the confirmation.