is behringer trash?

[cornelius]

I'm with M Code - I haven't had good reliability experience with Behringer in the pro world...

 

[M Code]

OK for industrial use perhaps I would look at something like YAMAHA, but for home use? MY EP2000 has a slower, quieter fan in it, and when I play my system hard the amp gets barely warm. "Is that all you got?" I can almost hear it saying

Given that the orignal poster was looking for only 150 watts per channel, I think it's safe to assume that his environment won't be as challenging.

Because of its great value and very good sound, for home use I think the Behringer's are hard to beat. I also find it especially interesting that the Behringer amplifiers sound better than the designs they copied, like the Alesis amps.

Of course those with Behringer A500s just need to be careful with setting the gains.



CD

The EP2000 sells for < $300 and is rated @ 2KW in to 4 Ohms..
Yeah rite....
If it serves the purpose then go for it..

But as I mentioned previously and pappy always repeated..
The lowest price is not always the best deal..
Pay Now or Pay Later..

Kinda like buying auto parts, one can buy a Chinese rebuilt starter for $29 @ AutoZone or a new US-made one for $99 from Napa..
However when it goes bad in a little desert town like Needles, CA I wonder then How much? it is worth.

Also add in the labor for R&R.

Just my $0.00...

 

[GSXR_Rider]

I own 4 of the Behringer EuroPower amps (2x ep2500, 2x ep4000) - these amps are untouchable for the price. With a fan mod they are silent.

FWIW: My advice would be to ALWAYS buy the larger Europower amp for a paltry $50 more up front (meaning buy the EP4000 over the EP2000)......the bench test specs I saw on the old EP1500 vs EP2500 showed that the larger amp clearly delivered on its advertised specs. The smaller EP performed well but did not meet advertised specs. In the big picture the $50 is a bargain to get the bigger amp - the additional watts make it a no-brainer upgrade.

I am running one of my EP4000s in 2ohm stereo (powering four Dayton RSS390HF 15" subs) - the amp gets warm but never hot. And that is after 2 to 3 hours of constant use (even using a modded silent fan which moves less air than the stock noisy fan). These amps are a STEAL!

Those who turn their nose up at the Behringer pro amps are the ones losing out.

 

[yepimonfire]

I'm with M Code - I haven't had good reliability experience with Behringer in the pro world...

the pro world is also alot more demanding on equipment, it also depends on whether or not you were using it correctly or if you were abusing it like hooking 5 speakers into one output, or feeding it an already clipped input signal or trying to use a measly 150w to fill an entire club or hall with LOUD sound. most of the "reliable" posters on here who own behringers love them, thats good enough for me. based on the conflicting info on here and the fact that M Code has run out of cents, i will just buy those and if they fail, i'll return it and do something different.

 

[lsiberian]

The EP2000 sells for < $300 and is rated @ 2KW in to 4 Ohms..
Yeah rite....

No amp actually delivers it's rated output, but the EP amps are one of the good products Behringer makes. This is like saying all Fords are terrible cars. There have been some lemons, but the F150, Mustang and a few others are actually really good vehicles.

The Engineer determines product quality not the brand name.

 

[Codifus]

....My advice would be to ALWAYS buy the larger Europower amp for a paltry $50 more up front (meaning buy the EP4000 over the EP2000)......the bench test specs I saw on the old EP1500 vs EP2500 showed that the larger amp clearly delivered on its advertised specs. The smaller EP performed well but did not meet advertised specs. In the big picture the $50 is a bargain to get the bigger amp - the additional watts make it a no-brainer upgrade.....

For the home consumer I think it's safe to conclude that any of the EP series Behringers produce ungodly amounts of power. Power, in excess

The budding audiophile in me, however, would also prefer the class AB design to the class H design, as you will find that some EPs are AB and others are H.

For those of you new to Behringers, the EP1500, 2000, 2500, and 4000, are all in the same exact chassis. Except for the label they look exactly the same. Check the specifications/internals other than power output to see the real design differences.

CD

 

[M Code]

The Engineer determines product quality not the brand name.

Don't agree..
Once the electrical design has been validated by the design team, the factory and its production/assembly processes determine the end product quality...
Even the best electrical components will fail if the assembly process is flawed such as soldering, component insertion..

Just my $0.00..

 

[yepimonfire]

Don't agree..
Once the electrical design has been validated by the design team, the factory and its production/assembly processes determine the end product quality...
Even the best electrical components will fail if the assembly process is flawed such as soldering, component insertion..

Just my $0.00..

thats called a defective product dude, and no company would let thousands of production runs be defective by default as it would cost them millions of dollars. most all electronic devices are built by machines that have extreme accuracy, meaning they build each item exactly the same every time and maybe every 1000 items or so one may be messed up. your logic isnt working here because no company could stay in business if 90% or even 50% of their products were defective because each time someone sends an item back to the company they lose that money, which would probably be around 150 dollars for the A500. if a product is defective over and over or does not perform the way it is supposed to then it gets discontinued or revised. period. just like when the xbox 360 first came out, it had all sorts of problems with it, but those were fixed because microsoft was losing money on the amount of returns. now the majority of them work right.

 

[M Code]

thats called a defective product dude, and no company would let thousands of production runs be defective by default as it would cost them millions of dollars. most all electronic devices are built by machines that have extreme accuracy, meaning they build each item exactly the same every time and maybe every 1000 items or so one may be messed up. your logic isnt working here because no company could stay in business if 90% or even 50% of their products were defective because each time someone sends an item back to the company they lose that money, which would probably be around 150 dollars for the A500. if a product is defective over and over or does not perform the way it is supposed to then it gets discontinued or revised. period. just like when the xbox 360 first came out, it had all sorts of problems with it, but those were fixed because microsoft was losing money on the amount of returns. now the majority of them work right.

If the product is defective, it should never leave the factory..
Outgoing Quality Assurance is part of the auditted factory process.

You are also confusing a couple of issues..
1. Behringer is claiming it output 2KW..
Do you really believe this..
Note that performance specifications are actually part of a product's warranty enforceable in the USA under certain FTC statues..
To me this is outright fraud, and misleading advertising..
What do you call it??
2. For example, if the Behringer puts out only 500W not the claimed 2KW..
Is the product defective?? In most use cases defective product is defined as products that don't function properly..

Just my $0.00...

 

[yepimonfire]

have you bench tested the amp? secondly, everyone in the audio world knows that most amps cannot put out their claimed output all ch driven RMS, maybe they can peak at that but not sustain it.

 

[lsiberian]

If the product is defective, it should never leave the factory..
Outgoing Quality Assurance is part of the auditted factory process.

Just my $0.00...

In reputable companies QA is conducted by Engineers.

The EP amps put out a lot more than 500 watts. It's been bench tested by several folks in the DIY hobby. Our resident expert on the amp is currently sidelined with an injury that makes typing difficult.

I'd prefer a Yamaha P series amp myself, but for the budget minded the EP amp is alright.

I think avoiding many Behringer products is warranted. Other than EP amps, DCX, BFD, CX processors and 2030/2031 monitors I'd buy nothing else from Behringer.

 

[M Code]

have you bench tested the amp?

Nope..
But I know it doesn't put out 2KW..

secondly, everyone in the audio world knows that most amps cannot put out their claimed output all ch driven RMS, maybe they can peak at that but not sustain it.

To me, the primary issue is the brand needs to be more honest in its disclosures.. If they want to stretch the numbers, at least reference what the testing criteria was used..
As now stated it is very misleading and BS..

We had several Behringer products boards and amplifiers mostly defectives or blown units that we pulled out of certain Las Vegas club installs..
We gave the whole lot to a local tech school..

Just my $0.00..

 

[GSXR_Rider]

Here is a link to bench tested EP1500 and EP2500 - the results speak for themselves especially considering the price point.......


http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=amps&action=display&thread=506&page=1

 

[yepimonfire]

Nope..
But I know it doesn't put out 2KW..

of course you do

 

[lsiberian]

To me, the primary issue is the brand needs to be more honest in its disclosures.. If they want to stretch the numbers, at least reference what the testing criteria was used..
As now stated it is very misleading and BS..

You aint kidding. The EP2000 is just a re-branded 1500.

 

[Codifus]

You aint kidding. The EP2000 is just a re-branded 1500........

....with it's voltage rails ramped up a bit

Same with the EP2500 and 4000.


CD

 

[Seth=L]

If the product is defective, it should never leave the factory..
Outgoing Quality Assurance is part of the auditted factory process.

You are also confusing a couple of issues..
1. Behringer is claiming it output 2KW..
Do you really believe this..
Note that performance specifications are actually part of a product's warranty enforceable in the USA under certain FTC statues..
To me this is outright fraud, and misleading advertising..
What do you call it??
2. For example, if the Behringer puts out only 500W not the claimed 2KW..
Is the product defective?? In most use cases defective product is defined as products that don't function properly..

Just my $0.00...

As mentioned already in this thread the EP2500 handily meets it's specified output power. The EP1500 doesn't, but it's not as if it's leagues behind it's rating, no more so than the average manufacturer.

Look at the benchests. The build quality on these amplifiers exceeds their price range by a significant amount. As lsiberian pointed out, at least one very reputable and knowledgeable member here can point out the specifics of what makes the EP2500 such a significant bargain.

 

[M Code]

As mentioned already in this thread the EP2500 handily meets it's specified output power. The EP1500 doesn't, but it's not as if it's leagues behind it's rating, no more so than the average manufacturer.

Look at the benchests. The build quality on these amplifiers exceeds their price range by a significant amount. As lsiberian pointed out, at least one very reputable and knowledgeable member here can point out the specifics of what makes the EP2500 such a significant bargain.

According to the Behringer EP2500 specification sheet, its output power is rated @ 450W x 2, 20Hz-20kHz into 8 Ohms (both channels driven.) Yet the referenced EP2500 test report indicates @ 20kHz it only put out 287W per channel not 450W as specified by Behringer...
That is a difference of 163W or a shortfall of >36% compared to publsihed rated specifications..

In closing, the EP2500 may be the best amplifier buy on the planet for a watts per $ and perform satisfactorily for a consumer home system. However in the world of pro-audio where reliability, high-build quality and robust audio performance are required the Behringer products fall short. But as previously mentioned for a system used for qwik weddings or week-end DJ jobs, the EP2500 appears to be an outstanding value.

Just my $0.00

 

[GSXR_Rider]

According to the Behringer EP2500 specification sheet, its output power is rated @ 450W x 2, 20Hz-20kHz into 8 Ohms (both channels driven.) Yet the referenced EP2500 test report indicates @ 20kHz it only put out 287W per channel not 450W as specified by Behringer...
That is a difference of 163W or a shortfall of >36% compared to publsihed rated specifications..

In closing, the EP2500 may be the best amplifier buy on the planet for a watts per $ and perform satisfactorily for a consumer home system. However in the world of pro-audio where reliability, high-build quality and robust audio performance are required the Behringer products fall short. But as previously mentioned for a system used for qwik weddings or week-end DJ jobs, the EP2500 appears to be an outstanding value.

Just my $0.00

I also noticed the 8ohm power rating discrepancy as well but this was not a high concern to me in making my purchase of the Behringer EP amps as none of mine are running at an 8 ohm load and my guess is most who buy EP amps to run subs or are running multiple speakers for commercial use are not concerned with the shortfall at 8ohms. I think this amp may have been "optimized" to run at lower impedances (4 or 2 ohms).

As most know the EP2500/4000 is a clone of the QSC RMX2450.....an amplifier that I routinely see for sale by internet retailers for approx $699 (and by most standards even at $699 the RMX2450 is STILL a high value amp when considering the watts per $). For my application in the home setting the EuroPower amps are an insanely great value.

Behringer's biggest hurdle to overcome is the perception/reality that not all of their products meet the "gold standard". It is unfortunate that the entire line up of Behringer audio gear does not meet the same standards set by the EP amps. Let's be honest....half of the fun of being into the audio hobby is acquiring new gear and obsessing over stats and striving to build our "dream systems"......the reality is that because of Behringer's sketchy reputation their products are not necessarily perceived as "high end" units that are worthy of building a great system around. However the reality is that most who actually give their gear (amps, studio monitors and digital x-overs at least) a fair shake end up becoming Behringer converts afterward.

Although my EP amps lack a hi-fi "pedigree" and the snob-appeal that many lust after in the audio world the real reason that I love the amps so much is that they are an insanely great bargain and a bit of an "audio insider's" secret.

I can safely say that the EP amps stomp all over any home receiver I have ever heard in terms of output and "headroom ceiling".......all for about $300 shipped to my door!