Is audio your hobby or something else?

highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
Im new to this site so maybee im not seeing the entire picture,is there anybody here who like's to try new & different gear or even believe's that all system's do not sound the same or that you can change the sound of your rig by changing a component or is it all spec sheet's & dbt?:confused:

in another thread a guy asked a simple question about tube amp's & the answer to his question required first hand knowledge of tube amp's & what they sound like,instead of answer's from tube amp owner's or even answer's of a helpfull nature out came the spec war's & dbt quote's with most poster's leaving the impression that they had never even owned a tube amp but claimed ultimate knowledge on the subject.

that crap bummed me right out,instead of helping the guy enjoy the hobby & help him explore a new way to enjoy the hobby the thread was taken over by the spec guy's asking for quailification's of this & dbt of that,there is a big difference between trying to be helpful & destroying any fun for other's in the hobby.

how can this type of response's be helpfull to anybody? it seem's self serving to me & will surely make people think twice about posting anything at all,if every time anybody ask's a question they are lept on by people who have never taken the time to try the gear in question but refer to a general set of spec's then try to assert that either they know how it will sound or that the member asking the question is making a bad move you will never discuss anything except spec's,man what a bummer that sound's like.:(

i would think that the long time member's would be sick of just seeing a steady stream of newbee's to the hobby asking the same old question's like which reciever to buy or how to hook up a sub & would be happy to see people discussing the hobby & enjoying it.

my question's are simple,is your hobby in audio trying new & different gear in order to put together the best sounding system you can or is it just talking about spec's & never trying anything new?

the second question is do you think that there is anything to be learned about putting together a great sounding rig from trying out new gear or do you think that all gear sound's the same so it may just as well all boil down to a dollar vs watt issue?

i for one really enjoy trying new & different gear & hearing the difference's:)
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
my question's are simple,is your hobby in audio trying new & different gear in order to put together the best sounding system you can or is it just talking about spec's & never trying anything new?
There's always bigger and better gear out there, it just costs a little more. I don't know many on this site than aren't looking to improve their gear - especially with all the new technology coming out. 7.1 discrete channels of surround? Oh yeah! Getting the most bass out of the smallest sub - you bet. Blu-ray with DTS-HD audio - can't wait.

the second question is do you think that there is anything to be learned about putting together a great sounding rig from trying out new gear or do you think that all gear sound's the same so it may just as well all boil down to a dollar vs watt issue?
Keep in mind, it's your money, and your taste. Not many have the patience or ability to level match $1500 receivers to do a head to head comparison. Many sound different out of the box. Many can be tweaked to higher parameters than others.

If you're talking amplifiers, many have different build qualities. A budget pro amp (a cheap Pyramid with VU meters) probably won't hold a candle to a Krell or McIntosh due to a lousy noise floor. A 5lb. heat sink won't last very long compared to a 35lb. heat sink when big demands are put on an amp, and we all know what happens with excess heat. Insufficient capacitors and power supplies may not deliver the power needed to drive that set of electrostats.

It's not a dollar vs. watt issue. That's like saying it's a dollar vs. date issue. You won't get far at McDonalds. ;)
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
highfihoney said:
Im new to this site so maybee im not seeing the entire picture..................

i would think that the long time member's would be sick of just seeing a steady stream of newbee's to the hobby asking the same old question's like which reciever to buy or how to hook up a sub & would be happy to see people discussing the hobby & enjoying it.
Well, I guess the answers are pretty simple. Most of the members and many of the visitors do not have the financial means to afford this type of equipment nor do they have the desire to. Most of the persons on this site ask questions concerning budget equipment and getting the most "bang for their buck". Also, most are interested in home theater based systems. I'm afraid there's not very many tube amps suited for that field.

I've had my fun "back in the day" playing with tube amps, building Heathkit equipment with my dad and just learning about what I liked in audio. Things have changed and progress smacks me in the face now. I've changed (getting old :( ). I too am more interested in home theater than critical listening. I've thrown out my entire album collection. Never want to hear, in my opinion, that crappy sound again. I'm married and my wife is also a home theater enthusiast (loserwife). We've recent built a new home with a dedicated theater room. But we still have other interests.

As somebody who has a little knowledge (very little I'm afraid) I'm always willing to helping out the newbie. What may seem a stupid question to some is an honest question to others. This is a forum, open to all, free to discuss whatever you want. Sometimes the members can get out of hand, but they're still a good bunch of guys (and girls). Those that go over the limit have been banned by the moderators.
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
highfihoney said:
my question's are simple,is your hobby in audio trying new & different gear in order to put together the best sounding system you can or is it just talking about spec's & never trying anything new?
My audio hobby is really more about the music, I don't think about my gear all that much. I get on the occassional "new gear upgrade" mindset every few months, but mostly I'm more than happy with what I have for my current budget. If and when I decide to upgrade to a new and more expensive system later on, I'll upgrade everything at once. So no, I'm not a "try cable 'X' this week and pre-amp 'Q' the week after".

the second question is do you think that there is anything to be learned about putting together a great sounding rig from trying out new gear or do you think that all gear sound's the same so it may just as well all boil down to a dollar vs watt issue?
No, not all gear sounds the same. If it did we would all have Colby portable CD players and Koss speakers. And unless you enjoy your white van speakers, You tend to get what you pay for.
 
Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
The standard answer I guess we're supposed to give is "it's about the music." But that's not strictly true anymore. Instead of gear being the means to an end it's become the end itself. I probably spend about as much time reading and writing about gear as actually listening to music/movies. At least sometimes it seems like that.

True, some view every noob as a potential convert to their personal audio religion. To those people, neophyte audio enthusiasts are to be drilled with propaganda until the poor guy accepts their world as Holy Writ. It's a shame, but some guys have flogged their agenda and viewpoint for so long that they don't know anything else. It's not necessarily that they don't mean well, they just eventually care more about convincing people they're right than helping people find their own path and have fun.

AH was founded as an oasis of sanity, a place where "snake oil peddlers" and purveyors of audio tomfoolery would be refuted. So it's not surprising to find the "DBT'ers" out in force. If you want to hear about "tube bloom," "velvety highs" or "chocolately" midrange, find another audio site- or perhaps a cookbook.;) But rest assured, there are other viewpoints out there, both at AH and around the WWW.

I hope you enjoy the site. Just keep your chin up (and your head down!:p ).
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
hello guy's,lots of good response's & i do enjoy this site very much,i like the fact that there isnt a lot of voodoo & im also very happy that nobody responded with the lame"it's all about the music" reason,god i hate hearing that just about as much as hearing that my gear is "unresolving" when i cant hear a difference between a $4,000 pair of nordost cable's against my $39 tributarie's.

rob,chocolately midrange,im still laughin my a$$ off at that one & i thought i had heard them all.:D

i agree that the over zealous are just trying to help but my whole point in this thread was to point out in a nice way without starting a bunch of crap that sometime's it's best to just have fun instead of sweatin the little stuff & to help people have fun.

to me having fun is the most important thing & we should all be happy that we have a hobby to enjoy.

enjoy your weekend everybody!:)
 
T

tbewick

Senior Audioholic
I certainly consider listening to music/watching films to be a recreational activity. The only thing I'm interested in in buying is the most transparent and best value equipment. Tube amplifiers are bad value when it comes to doing this. They might be interesting to buy for the collector, but if you're only interested in sound quality, there are cheaper conventional amplifiers available which are better value.

On your second question, I view specifications as the most reliable indicator of performance. For example, a 1000 watt Krell amplifier is better than a 5 W tube amplifier.
 
Rip Van Woofer

Rip Van Woofer

Audioholic General
Audio is a hobby for me, and a quite engrossing one, but it is subservient (for me) to the music - an odd statement, perhaps, from a guy who spent the better part of a year building his own speakers and amps. On the other hand, I just got back from an all-Mozart chamber concert. (It's Wolfgang's 250th birthday!) A good performance can move me over a crappy OEM dashboard speaker in a Ford cargo van. In fact, it has.

As for questions of "religion", I am a pretty hardcore DBT advocate and skeptic as everyone here knows. I take the view that the reproduction of sound lies purely in the realm of the phyiscal world and is thus a scientific and engineering problem - so the methods of science and engineering are the most appropos to evaluating and understanding audio as for the rest of the physical world. Science in the form of experimental psychology also tells us that human perception is easily fooled; thus open ended listening without controling for variables and especially human bias is of limited value in judging the quality of audio gear. Audiology and physiology tell us the capabilities and limits of human hearing - strongly suggesting that "golden ears" do not exist. The place for subjectivity is in teh enjoyment music. It would be ridiculous to DBT musical performances!

Now, if one prefers the sound of (say) tube amps -- that's a subjective judgement. One can disagree with it on many grounds but ultimately it's up to individual taste and judgement. I hold the view that the point of acquiring all these shiny boxes of circuitry is to achieve a system that adds or subtracts as little as possible to the sound. Many (not all) tube systems do not do that. Some find that quality pleasing. Different strokes... People like me would be a lot less, um, cranky if vinyl/tube enthusiasts would stifle the airy fairy verbiage about the magic they hear and simply say, well, I know it's not necessarily accurate but by gosh I just happen to like a little more second-order harmonic distortion and a little roll-off of the highs, and this brand XYZ amp does that best to my ears and/or with my speakers.

(Hey, I admit it. A lot of recordings benefit from a little less accuracy. I just prefer to dial my signal processing in as I see fit...not hardwired in a one-size-fits-all manner. Again, different strokes...)

I digress. Given the above, it should of course be obvious that the only really reliable way to be sure that the equipment is neutral is via measurement, not unreliable, unaided human perception. The signal coming out should be an exact match for the signal going in. Or, if one prefers the output to have a little "something extra", then the "something" that many people prefer can also be isolated via measurement and controlled listening tests. <b>Every truly audible difference can be measured. Some easily, some less so. There are no mysterious "X factors" in audio.</b>

Yes, the "common" measurements quoted in specs do not necessarily tell the whole story. There are genuine scientific controversies in the professional audio community about new measurement methods and many current ones. THD, for example, has long been regarded an an overly simplistic measurement. But remember this too: which specs are quoted to you in ads and manuals (and how truthful they are) are determined as much or more by marketing people as by the engineers.

Many consider the scientific approach to audio sterile and emotionless. To that I can only reply for myself: I am not a scientist or engineer. My background is in music and theater. I'm a pretty emotional, artsy-fartsy kinda guy! Yet, the scientific approach to this hobby has not only acquainted me with a broad and fascinating realm of scientific knowledge in fields from physics to acoustics but also allows me to realize a very close facsimile to a thrilling live performance in my home without taking out a second mortgage, because I am able with the knowledge I have acquired to concentrate my resources on those things that make a real (or at least the most) difference.

By Jove, I believe this is the closest thing to a coherent statement of my "audio philosophy" as I have managed to write! Thanks for the inspiration.

Of course, if you want to explore this more my Website has a really good page of links...:cool:
 
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Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
But that Krell might not be a better value nor any cheaper per watt!;)
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
Addiction? Is that the right term? Yeah...

I am here to help, and to have a good time.

Audio is my main hobby, and my career will be in Diesel Mechanics. Do I wish I did audio reviewing for a living? Hell yes. Is it possible for me to do it for a living? No. I spent my time in school learning how to me a mechanic, and I have to stick with that path. Do I wish I got into audio when I was 3? Yes! :) Then I would have taken a different route in my coarse selection. But that, as we say, is in the past...

SheepStar
 
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~JC~

~JC~

Audioholic
Stilll confused

Not sure I have figured out the point of this post. Are you an arrogant bastid trying to flaunt his dough, or an iquisitive type trying to probe the inner workings of an audio mind-set, maybe a graduate project? Either way, I would ask, what do you ride??;)

Sheep- for crying out loud, you are 18, or say you are. If you want to go into an audio field, then do it. Sheesh. You think your whole life is over because of the decisions you made when you were 10???? :confused: I haven't been here very long, but you obviously have learned a thing or two about stereos. So get off your arse and pursue your dream. ( OK, I'll leave now) :)
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Sheep,

JC is right. Go talk to some local audio shops about your talents. You can ease your way into home installations, on site recommendations, etc... Shops can recommend your service at say - $50 to $100 to go out for an hour and suggest what equipment to install based on a room size, listening preferences, etc... You can take your Avia disc and setup systems, or custom calibrate HD sets. As time and money permit, you can eventually open up your own shop, or online store/forum like this. You know more at 18 than 95%+ twice your age. You're just a kid with his whole life ahead of him. It only takes time to get your name out. Set up a website of your talents/knowledge and make up some business cards. Post pictures. We'll help you along - you can be a poster child for Audioholics. ;)
 
brian32672

brian32672

Banned
Man that was quite moving Todd.
You almost have me going out and trying this, J/K.;)

But yeah, I to agree Sheep (Brian).
And not just because we have the same names.:cool:
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
brian32672 said:
Man that was quite moving Todd.
You almost have me going out and trying this, J/K.;)

But yeah, I to agree Sheep (Brian).
And not just because we have the same names.:cool:
Thanxxx. That was probably the Amber Bock talking, but one thing I do know is how to setup a business. Being in biz for myself - and having been in middle management for several years, I found (probalby too late in life) it's much easier than working for some a$$wipe (or conglomerate) who's paying you half what you're worth. You only go around once, so take a gamble and make money doing what you enjoy best.

Same goes for you Brian (32672), you know enough to be dangerous in A/V and computers.

Heck, you can make a mint just relieving people of computer viruses with a simple ad in the weekend/local paper giving advice via phone/internet.
 
AverageJoe

AverageJoe

Full Audioholic
Sheep said:
Audio is my main hobby, and my career will be in Desiel Mechanics...
I'd listen to them, Sheep. Some good advice, there. Audio is easier to spell than diesel.;)
 
brian32672

brian32672

Banned
Buckeyefan 1 said:
Thanxxx. That was probably the Amber Bock talking,
Wow, must be going around tonight.
I too, have made some strange posts, and I too can say, that I have a few beers in me.;)

Being in biz for myself - and having been in middle management for several years, I found (probalby too late in life) it's much easier than working for some a$$wipe (or conglomerate) who's paying you half what you're worth. You only go around once, so take a gamble and make money doing what you enjoy best.
Yes I will attest to this, I made a bundle when I had a biz running.
Granted it was not in what I like best, it was in painting yachts.
That is certainly why I suggest give it a try Sheep.
Same goes for you Brian (32672), you know enough to be dangerous in A/V and computers.
Uhmm, for some reason that does not sound right.:confused:
Well, at least the dangerous part....
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
AverageJoe said:
I'd listen to them, Sheep. Some good advice, there. Audio is easier to spell than diesel.;)
I'm tired, leave me alone :rolleyes:

I would, But I still like cars too.

Also, I am already setup to go into mechanics. Maybe once I finish the program and have some extra $, I will open a shop or something. :)

SheepStar
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Sheep said:
I'm tired, leave me alone :rolleyes:

I would, But I still like cars too.

Also, I am already setup to go into mechanics. Maybe once I finish the program and have some extra $, I will open a shop or something. :)

SheepStar
My neighbor three doors down is an independant sales rep for Snap On Tools. He's always trying to get me to buy his repo's (tool boxes and tools). Any word on if this stuff is worth the money, or just Craftsman look-a-likes? Thought you may know being in the biz, Sheep. :confused:
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
brian32672 Uhmm, for some reason that does not sound right.:confused:
Well, at least the dangerous part....
Dangerous in the good sense - meaning "clean up" or "make a mint."
 

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