Interesting Day at Best Buy

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SimplyEpic

Audioholic
10k is for the cables/wires, speakers, receiver, amp and subs.
 
Joe B

Joe B

Audioholic Chief
The Martin Logan speakers you listened to (Motion series) are really nice, provided you stay in the sweet spot like you said. I'm not sure if you did this or not, but even when you are sitting in the sweet spot, as soon as you go to stand, you loose the image. Their off axis response is not good, in fact it is pretty bad. But, if that's not an issue for you, and you are always going to be in that sweet spot, you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer sounding speaker in that price range.
 
S

SimplyEpic

Audioholic
@Joe B That's the problem I have a big space to fill (I believe around 6500 cubic feet maybe a bit larger with the attached rooms in open floor plan) and a few listening/viewing positions. I did like the sound and knew they would need subs to wake them up. The Denon 3600 by itself just doesn't have the strength to push those 4 ohm speakers to their potential. The off axis response was my reason for taking them off my list. I did however contemplate on if there was a way to acoustically configure the room to make the off axis response better but figured it would be more work than it was worth and I am no Audiologist or whatever the term is for someone who acoustically configures rooms lol.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
cables/wires
Monoprice Choice Or Access 12 AWG
Monoprice Affinity Banana Plugs (straight and 90º)
Monoprice High Quality Subwoofer Cables (RG6, 18AWG Solid copper core, double shield)
Monoprice Cat6a Ethernet cable and gigaswitch

Anything more expensive than this is a waste of your budget!

:cool:
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Was it stated here and I missed it? What is your goal? Stereo? 5-channel Surround? 7? Atmos?
 
S

sirclotron

Audiophyte
I've had the Martin Logan Motion 60XT's for several months now. Their positioning is indeed fairly sensitive, but I have found that the air motion tweeters are extremely rewarding when the speakers are positioned correctly and you're sitting at the correct height. In my observations, you want to be seated so that your ears are approximately between the mid-range and tweeter. If you sit too low, the clarity of the tweeter is somewhat lost. I have them in a room that's approximately 12'x12' and the bass they produce is perfect for the space. Initially I debated on the addition of a subwoofer, but I've had serious doubts on how much I would actually gain from one considering the 60XT's dig respectably deep. Considering I paid less than $1000 each for the 60XT's *with* free shipping, I'm beyond happy with the speakers.
 
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M

Movie2099

Audioholic General
I do want to check out he KEF. From what I have seen online using headphones even though I know it is not a good sampling I thought the Q952 sounded like they would be good quality sound for a good price. @ryanosaur I do agree the Klipsch have there own issues especially on the low end at least the 8000F that I listened to and the subs were a bit loose which could have been from abuse in the store but all of the Klipsch subs they had were a bit on the rough side when it came to sound quality. As much as I like ported subs I can not stand when the port chuffing is noticeable. It is a distraction to the music presentation. I will take a look at the JBL's as soon as I can find some. Budget wise I am looking at about $10k but have a feeling once all is said and done I may end up closer to 12 just not if I can help it. @Pogre I usually like having a separate sub regardless of the speakers just to have a bit more balance as tons of speakers I have seen in the past are good at highs or lows and Bose would cover mids but none seems to balance them all out. Of course technology has changed greatly over the years as well as my budget and this will be a great journey seeing what higher end components and tech can do.

I love the conversation this has sparked. You guys are great and I appreciate all the opinions and insight :cool:
If you are able to, check out the B&W 702 S2's. They a very good speaker. They will fill your room with glorious sound, both for music and HT. They are well worth the price.

Also, another company to check out is RBH. They have a very nice selection of speakers. They are kind of a hidden gem in the audio/HT world. They don't do a lot of marketing, they are based in Utah, I believe. They are revamping some of their selection and have added some new speakers recently. You should check them out.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
10k is for the cables/wires, speakers, receiver, amp and subs.
Thanks!
And what speakers are you wanting? It can range from Stereo to something like 13 channels if you go with everything. If you are not certain, ask for advice! I am something of a Luddite with only 5 channels (plus subs) for HT and most often I only play stereo because that is how most music is recorded.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
so, we have $10,000 budget
$10,000 Total budget
- 150 Cable/wires (per Ryanosaur's recommedation)
9,800 Remaining budget
- 1,100 Denon AVR-X3600H (good choice!)
8,700 Remaining budget for subs amp(s) and speakers

Once we know what complement of speakers you are looking for, we can take it farther.
Some more questions to help us help you:
1) What are your expected listening habits (like 50% Music/50% Home Theater)
2) How far will the listening position(s) be from the main speakers?
3) what is the volume in cu. ft. of your room combined with and rooms that are open to it (this is for deciding the subwoofer)
4) If music is a major concern, what type of music do you listen to (Rock, Jazz, Heavy Metal, and also whether you listen to music with especially heavy bass content).

I suspect I missed one or two, but that is a good start!
 
S

SimplyEpic

Audioholic
70% music 30% movies. Building a 5.2 system listening position is about 10 - 15 feet from the speakers depending on the spot as there are a few. Looking at dual SVS SB-4000 for subs so far but may upgrade to the 16's. I like the sound of sealed subs a bit more, chuffing drives me nuts. Music is almost all music types but country.
 
S

SimplyEpic

Audioholic
Volume in the room including attached open floor plan is about 8500 cubic feet.
 
CajunLB

CajunLB

Senior Audioholic
That’s a very large area to pressurize with a sealed subwoofer or 2.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
That’s a very large area to pressurize with a sealed subwoofer or 2.
That is a large volume to pressurize with a ported sub or two!
@SimplyEpic I also have such a large volume thanks to vaulted ceiling, open balcony,open foyer, and open kitchen/b'fast nook. One way to compensate for this is to have the subs closer to you (sometimes this is called near-field placement) where more energy is present! So be considering if you have some placement options to help with this!
So, we are at $8,700 for 5 speakers, amps, and 2 subs - Nice, that will get you into a very sweet place!

One of the reasons to know that you are 70% Music and 30%HT is to figure out how to distribute your money. A 70/30 split suggests to me that it would be better to sink money into two excellent speakers for stereo music and use less expensive speakers for surrounds (with your budget, they should still be quite good)!. The quality level of the Center is more controversial - it is often the hardest working speaker for HT!

Based on the speakers I have heard, my suggestion is a little unconventional, but I do believe it represents good value with very high quality sound.
I would get a pair of Focal Twin6Be ($2200 ea) for your right and left speakers and a Focal Solo6Be ($1500) for a center:

These include an amplifier matched to each driver so 3 amps for each of the Twins and 2 amps for the Solo! One nice thing about have amps custom selected for the drivers is the speakers will simply cut off if you drive them too hard. No worries over blown tweeters!
Least anyone tell you that studio monitors don't belong in a HT, consider that DTS Labs uses these exact speakers to demo their surround processing technology to customers!:


For your surround speakers, I would get a pair of Canton Chrono 516.2 ($450/pr) wall-mount speakers that have a ceramic tweeter than matches closely with the Focal Be Tweeter.:
I would simply use teh Denon amps for these. They are not a difficult load and the Denon puts out plenty of power when you only ask it to drive the two surround speakers!

$8,700 Remaining budget
-5,900 Focals across front
$2,800 Remaining budget
-450 Canton Chrono 516.2 surrounds
$2350 Remains for subwoofers

Some thoughts:
You may not care for the look of these speakers, they are not traditional that way. I think these are a high-value option, but if it is not a look you like; obviously, they are not for you!
Depending on how much you want to protect the extra $2000 that you mentioned adding, you might spend aanother $700 and use a Twin6 Be for your center speaker as well as the left and right. The Solo6 plays 113dB peak SPL at 1 meter and the Twin6 play 115dB peak SPL at 1 meter. I can say with certainty that the Solo is louder than I would ever listen.
I am going to leave choice of subs alone for now because we need feedback from you as to flexibility of placement, how big is too big (or is there such a thing). In a large room like that it can get to be a juggling act between placement locations that work in your room, being able to pressurize the room, and WAF constraints! Sometimes that can force you into smaller subs such that you are sacrificing bass output.

@shadyJ (and others) are more familiar with home consumer speakers in this price range and might be be able to give you some more traditional options! I'm thinking Revel, but there are lots of great speakers out there!
 
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S

SimplyEpic

Audioholic
@KEW Your room sounds almost like mine. I have 22 foot vaulted ceilings with a balcony overlooking the room. The room itself is 25 feet long by 15 feet wide with a Kitchen counter that is about 8 feet long separating the open kitchen and attached L shape dining area that runs parallel with the living room where I will have all the AV equipment. Almost forgot aesthetic wise I love the look of floor standing speakers and not much of a shelf speaker style guy.

@CajunLB I hear a lot of people talking about subs needing to pressurize the room and not sure if that truly affects the sound but does lend to the experience. Not sure if it matters but I do not worry about the feel and am most concerned with the sound. The pressure may impact the volume I suppose which I am also concerned about and know that it will take a bit of power to get this room rocking. I'm not well versed in subs and these will actually be my first large subs. All I have ever owned are little 6 inch subs connected to my computer lol.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
@KEW Your room sounds almost like mine. I have 22 foot vaulted ceilings with a balcony overlooking the room. The room itself is 25 feet long by 15 feet wide with a Kitchen counter that is about 8 feet long separating the open kitchen and attached L shape dining area that runs parallel with the living room where I will have all the AV equipment.

@CajunLB I hear a lot of people talking about subs needing to pressurize the room and not sure if that truly affects the sound but does lend to the experience. Not sure if it matters but I do not worry about the feel and am most concerned with the sound. The pressure may impact the volume I suppose which I am also concerned about and know that it will take a bit of power to get this room rocking. I'm not well versed in subs and these will actually be my first large subs. All I have ever owned are little 6 inch subs connected to my computer lol.
Your room sounds a lot like mine, right down to the kitchen counter. Tho my vaulted ceilings aren't that tall! My living room/kitchen space is about 18'x30' that opens to a 12'x10' room on one side and a hallway. I've roughed out the math and figured for ~6000^3 when I was looking for new subs. I ended up with a pair of VTF-3 MK5s and they're doing an awesome job, 3 years later.

I don't think going big and going dual is a bad thing at all. For the most part my subs are loafing and I have never felt the fins on the back get any more than lukewarm. Never once close to hot. It's nice because I feel like they're gonna have a great shelf life for me, and on occasion they'll get a solid workout when I'm scrolling through the sbwoofer candy thread or my son comes over. He likes to find songs with deep bass and see if it's as deep as he thinks it is, and the ol' man has the best system he knows of to test his guesses on, lol.
 
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S

SimplyEpic

Audioholic
I was actually looking at those subs before I started leaning towards the SVS SB-4000's. I had this huge picture in my mind of what I was going to have and that all got shattered when I went to Best Buy and actually listened to some of the equipment I had in mind lol. So goes the life of a newby. Always lessons to be learned and experiences ahead of me. I just say take advantage of the opportunities when they are there as you never know if you may miss out. Just like being able to listen to those Martin Logan ESL's. Would never own that model due to the off axis response but one hell of an experience when you are in the sweet spot. Definitely an experience I wish more could enjoy.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
@KEW Your room sounds almost like mine. I have 22 foot vaulted ceilings with a balcony overlooking the room. The room itself is 25 feet long by 15 feet wide with a Kitchen counter that is about 8 feet long separating the open kitchen and attached L shape dining area that runs parallel with the living room where I will have all the AV equipment. Almost forgot aesthetic wise I love the look of floor standing speakers and not much of a shelf speaker style guy.

@CajunLB I hear a lot of people talking about subs needing to pressurize the room and not sure if that truly affects the sound but does lend to the experience. Not sure if it matters but I do not worry about the feel and am most concerned with the sound. The pressure may impact the volume I suppose which I am also concerned about and know that it will take a bit of power to get this room rocking. I'm not well versed in subs and these will actually be my first large subs. All I have ever owned are little 6 inch subs connected to my computer lol.
You might like this article https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/subwoofer-room-size
 
G

Gmoney

Audioholic Ninja
Nice thing is that no matter if you purchase through SVS or Best Buy, you still get the 45 day trial. Best Buy honors whatever SVS does.

I live in the state where Best Buy was created. So my Magnolia stores are very large. Each one has different high end products. We have some Kef Blades at one location. I was able to sit down and listen to those. Of course everything is hooked up with McIntosh $15k amps. Their Magnolia theaters they showcase have about $175-$200k worth of equipment in them. Behind the screen they use B&W products for both setups. They have SVS subs sitting around too. I know they are getting more KEF products to showcase. At the smaller Best Buys is where they keep their Def Techs, Klipsch, middle to lower tier products.
The one close to me is Modest. But still a Dedicated HT room. CircuitCity HT room was small.
 

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