Installing Wall Plates - Need Help

[tyreal78]

Installing my first set of 5.1 wall plates this weekend. One will go behind my receiver and telly (internal wall), the other on the back wall behind my couch (external wall).

At this point I'll only be running two sets of speaker wire for the surrounds and an RCA cable for the sub.

I have hardwood floors and will be running the cables underneath the house through the crawlspace and up to the back wall. The walls do not have insulation in them.

This is my first house so I've never installed any kind of wall plate. From what I've heard I'll need a flexible drill bit, fish tape, and a dry wall saw. I don't know the name of them, but I'm assuming I'll need a couple gang boxes for the wall plates to attach to.

Any help you can give me is appreciated. Thanks guys!

Installation Gear:
2 gang 5.1 surround wall plates
16AWG in wall speaker cable
Video RCA CL2 Rated Cable

 

[MDS]

I don't know the name of them, but I'm assuming I'll need a couple boxes for the wall plates to attach to.

They are called 'retro rings' (as in retrofit) or sometimes 'mud rings' and you can find them at any home improvement store.

 

[m_vanmeter]

as mentioned, for low voltage wiring you can use just the ring, sometimes called an "old work ring or box"

scroll down page to SC100RR for a picture of a single gang and double gang old work ring
http://www.hometech.com/techwire/wallboxlv.html

once you fit the ring into you new drywall cutout, you screw down the bolts that rotate the "wings" on the opposite corners and the tighten up against the back of the drywall, holding the ring in place. Now you have the mounting holes for the cover plate with the wiring connectors.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Sounds like you have things figured out for the most part.

I would strongly recommend using 14 gauge wiring if you are going through all this effort...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10239&cs_id=1023902&p_id=2821&seq=1&format=2

The boxes are typically called 'old work low voltage' boxes and are available from single gang to 4+ gang spacing. Single and double gang old work boxes as well as steel rings can be found at your local hardware stores typically, or online.

The drywall saw is correct, and a fish tape makes a lot of sense. The flexible drill bit is good, but can be really hard to use. It is better, if you can manage it, to drill up from underneath - straight up. The hard part is finding the wall, the easy part is drilling and running the cable.

EDIT: Make sure you get low voltage old work trim rings. They are open on the back and meet electrical code. The closed in blue boxes are for high voltage work and are very difficult to deal with if you need to get into them later on. Stick with the proper low voltage products.

 

[Phil Taylor]

Since you are only doing a couple of holes - if you wanna save some bucks you can use an old serrated steak knife instead of a drywall saw. About the same cutting ability but not quite as comfortable on the hand...

 

[tyreal78]

Thanks for the help guys. Shucks, I already purchased 16AWG speaker wire from Monoprice. I had read for satellites it wasn't necessary to go bigger unless running extended length. I'm only running about 12 feet. I think it should be ok.

Any tips on finding the walls underneath the house? On both walls there's high voltage boxes...maybe locate those underneath the house, measure over whatever distance I'll be placing the wall plates, and drill up?

 

[popotoys]

You may want to purchase a stud finder. Also, check you local codes, in Ontario the wire needs to be fire proof. If I was going to pull wire, I would think about the future and pull extra right away as you can do this in one shot.

The hardest part may be finding the hole (no shots here) once you drill from below. Good stiff fish tape will help, then you can draw some string through to tie wires to. Also, when pulling the wire, tie and extra line of wire with them to use in the future incase you need to pull something else.

Do you have baseboards? If so, you could remove them, and drill (cut) into the wall behind the baseboard in order to fish the wire through the wall and around the framing. You can drill a hole on an angle down through the floor that would be easily hidden by the baseboard.

 

[BMXTRIX]

If you really want to make it easy, you can use the smallest drill bit you have and drill down through the carpet/floor and see where it comes out, then go over a few inches and you'll be right in the wall perfectly. This is what I've done in the past as it works very well, reliably, and quicky and the hole size is miniscule from a tiny drill bit.

I have done the flexible bit as well. It's a total pain to use, but does work - usually.

If electrical wires come up from underneath, then that's an easy way to know where the wall is.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I find the most important tools for running wire are: cold winter air and warm single malt scotch.

 

[tyreal78]

Ok. I picked up a couple old work 2 gang voltage boxes (like the orange one pictured above). It didn't come with a template. Any suggestions here?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I always just draw out the inner section and then adjust the cut.

It's not difficult to cut sheet rock.

 

[tyreal78]

I always just draw out the inner section and then adjust the cut.

It's not difficult to cut sheet rock.

Yeah, I realized how stupid that question was after I posted it--took a look at it and figured it out. Haha.

Thank you.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Not a problem, I remember the first cut I made into my new walls.

Now I have about 40 of them.

 

[tyreal78]

Thanks again guys for all your help.

The install went well and looks professional. I'm very happy with the outcome. The wife loves not having any more wires and cables running through the living room.

The internal wall was easy. Just located the studs, cut the hole, measured over from where our cable TV coaxial came up from underneath the house, and drilled up. The only delay here was having to borrow a big enough drill bit.

Running the cables underneath the house was easy except for all the army crawling.

The exterior wall was the toughest. I eventually used a landmark--measured over from a vent to the hole I cut. The hard part was drilling up. The angle was difficult because the foundation and other obstacles got in the way. An extension for the drill bit gave me just enough room.

I never had to use the fishing tape. Just stuck my hand in the hole and pulled the cables through. I did find a dead mouse though.

I still need to run speaker cable up from the internal wall up to the attic and outside for some future outdoor speakers. Locating the wall from above is going to be difficult and I'm not sure exactly how to do that. Having R39 blown-in insulation isn't going to be fun either. Any advice?

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I just poke a small hole in the ceiling about 1/2" from the wall and then stick a long wire with an orange flag at the end up through it. Then when I get in the attic, I can see the flag and I know my wall is just 1/2'' over.

After I am done, I just dot a small dab of spackle and paint on the hole and call it a day.

Here is all the stuff I have running through my wall and attic incase you are wondering how much experience I have with this. 3 zones run of my AVR which consist of my main 5.1, inceilings in my bedroom running off of Niles control gear and my patio system.

Locating the wall from above is going to be difficult and I'm not sure exactly how to do that. Having R39 blown-in insulation isn't going to be fun either. Any advice?

 

[Adam]

I just poke a small hole in the ceiling about 1/2" from the wall and then stick a long wire with an orange flag at the end up through it. Then when I get in the attic, I can see the flag and I know my wall is just 1/2'' over.

Great approach, Greg.

That reminded me of this AH video article on running wires for surround speakers that I've always found to be both informative and hilarious.

 

[Phil Taylor]

Glad things went well under the house. The attic will be a treat with the summer heat. Depending on your weather - you may want to do it early in the morning. Also note that you may have a "wall cap" to go through which may involve up to 4" of 2x4 to drill through (depending on your home's construction) - so you will want a good, strong drill and at least a 3/4" paddle bit. You'll also be using your fish tape for sure as you will run it down the wall to your opening and pull up from there.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks again guys for all your help.

The install went well and looks professional. I'm very happy with the outcome. The wife loves not having any more wires and cables running through the living room.

The internal wall was easy. Just located the studs, cut the hole, measured over from where our cable TV coaxial came up from underneath the house, and drilled up. The only delay here was having to borrow a big enough drill bit.

Running the cables underneath the house was easy except for all the army crawling.

The exterior wall was the toughest. I eventually used a landmark--measured over from a vent to the hole I cut. The hard part was drilling up. The angle was difficult because the foundation and other obstacles got in the way. An extension for the drill bit gave me just enough room.

I never had to use the fishing tape. Just stuck my hand in the hole and pulled the cables through. I did find a dead mouse though.

I still need to run speaker cable up from the internal wall up to the attic and outside for some future outdoor speakers. Locating the wall from above is going to be difficult and I'm not sure exactly how to do that. Having R39 blown-in insulation isn't going to be fun either. Any advice?

Go back into the crawl space and seal the holes you drilled. Crawl spaces tend to be rather moist and if that moisture gets into the wall cavity, mold can grow. It will also cut down on drafts through the wall plates you installed.

Actually, if the attic height is sufficient to go to the spot where you want to run it, you will see the wall framing from above after moving the insulation out of the way. Usually, the stud bay where the light switches are placed will be a full 14-1/2" when it's in an interior wall. With a second person in the room where the top of the wall is, have them tap on the ceiling where you want the wires to go and drill through the top plate of the wall. If you want to drill an exploratory hole, go to Home Depot and buy a 12" long, 1/8" diameter bit. Then, drill where you want the wires to go into the attic and if that location won't work, you can easily patch the little hole. You can push a wire coat hanger through the hole as a marker, then look for it from the attic side. Angle it so you'll know which side is the room you drilled from. Home Depot (and most other hardware stores) sell long paddle bits and the bore through framing very well. Irwin is the most common brand for these. Use at least 1/2" for this and when you run your wires, 4 conductor is the best and you cant a continuous run to each speaker. Never hide a splice. When you find the location for the outdoor speakers, go into the attic near that location and have someone tap on the soffit where you want them. After you verify that it's a good location to drill, drill up from the outside and feed the fish tape up from there, then tape the wire onto it to pull it out.

 

[highfigh]

Glad things went well under the house. The attic will be a treat with the summer heat. Depending on your weather - you may want to do it early in the morning. Also note that you may have a "wall cap" to go through which may involve up to 4" of 2x4 to drill through (depending on your home's construction) - so you will want a good, strong drill and at least a 3/4" paddle bit. You'll also be using your fish tape for sure as you will run it down the wall to your opening and pull up from there.

4" being the lumber's named dimension, not actual. That will be 3" if 2x4 are doubled as a top plate.

 

[m_vanmeter]

you can use a small torpedo level to level up the ring on the wall at a height to match other outlet boxes, then lightly draw a pencil line around the opening in the center of the ring. Cut along the outside of the line and you should get a snug fit with the plastic lip that will entend into the drywall.

Another method is to put a little of the wife's lipstick on the four corners of the lip around the opening and carefully align the box for level and push against the drywall - marking the location of the four corners - draw lines for cutting.