In-wall speakers, Offset tweeter, and placement questions

R

Rylan

Audioholic
Hello,
I have been doing a lot of research and I really like RSL Speakers so far. I have not purchased any products yet, but hope to soon. I am looking at 2 options https://rslspeakers.com/cg3m-overview/, the CG23 5.1 system, also (2) C34E atmos speakers with the 10s sub. The other option is their new arrival, W25E https://rslspeakers.com/w25e-in-wall-speaker/
The W25E are in wall speakers and I really am leaning towards these as I like the sleek look. I would go with (5) W25E’s as a LCR, and as two surrounds, also (2) C34E atmos speakers with the 10s sub. My questions are, am I losing a lot of great sound by choosing in-walls vs RSL’s special designed box speakers? I’ve heard in-walls can sound fantastic, however one other concern I have after visiting with Steve (Home Theater Guru on YouTube) he said specifically about the W25E’s:

“I'm not a fan of 2 way speakers with the tweeter offset that far as the drivers come out of alignment as you move in the horizontal plane. as you move off axis you are getting further from one driver than the other and at some point they come out of alignment, usually around 30 degrees off axis. This is why horizontal centers are frowned upon.”
He mentioned for me to look at Some Monolith by Monoprice in-walls where the tweeter isn’t offset. I couldn’t get any further information from Steve, but it’s left me scratching my head. I know Audioholics really liked RSL’s 5.1 system per their review. Do they also have any advice or reviews on RSL’s W25E’s or thoughts on my above questions? I really like Joe over at RSL, great guy! I am looking for thoughts and if anyone might be able to help steer me in a direction I’d be happy with. I know Steve (home theater guru) says ideally LR mains should be around 55°. Im not sure how in-walls would do at this distance? My last question is, can in-walls be toed in? I know RSL’s in-walls have a preset 15° Baffle and a tweeter that free moves I believe up to 30°. Are their any articles that explain toe-In for in-walls and do you think I’d be happy with W25E’s. This will be my first home theater and it will be in my basement family room (17’9” x 20’ 4”) with a ceiling of 7’9”. I have an 85 inch tv which sits 30” off the floor to bottom of tv. My chair distance from ear to TV is 12’ and my ear height from the floor is 3’. If you need any
Further details please let me know.
Thank you
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Hello,
I have been doing a lot of research and I really like RSL Speakers so far. I have not purchased any products yet, but hope to soon. I am looking at 2 options https://rslspeakers.com/cg3m-overview/, the CG23 5.1 system, also (2) C34E atmos speakers with the 10s sub. The other option is their new arrival, W25E https://rslspeakers.com/w25e-in-wall-speaker/
The W25E are in wall speakers and I really am leaning towards these as I like the sleek look. I would go with (5) W25E’s as a LCR, and as two surrounds, also (2) C34E atmos speakers with the 10s sub. My questions are, am I losing a lot of great sound by choosing in-walls vs RSL’s special designed box speakers? I’ve heard in-walls can sound fantastic, however one other concern I have after visiting with Steve (Home Theater Guru on YouTube) he said specifically about the W25E’s:

“I'm not a fan of 2 way speakers with the tweeter offset that far as the drivers come out of alignment as you move in the horizontal plane. as you move off axis you are getting further from one driver than the other and at some point they come out of alignment, usually around 30 degrees off axis. This is why horizontal centers are frowned upon.”
He mentioned for me to look at Some Monolith by Monoprice in-walls where the tweeter isn’t offset. I couldn’t get any further information from Steve, but it’s left me scratching my head. I know Audioholics really liked RSL’s 5.1 system per their review. Do they also have any advice or reviews on RSL’s W25E’s or thoughts on my above questions? I really like Joe over at RSL, great guy! I am looking for thoughts and if anyone might be able to help steer me in a direction I’d be happy with. I know Steve (home theater guru) says ideally LR mains should be around 55°. Im not sure how in-walls would do at this distance? My last question is, can in-walls be toed in? I know RSL’s in-walls have a preset 15° Baffle and a tweeter that free moves I believe up to 30°. Are their any articles that explain toe-In for in-walls and do you think I’d be happy with W25E’s. This will be my first home theater and it will be in my basement family room (17’9” x 20’ 4”) with a ceiling of 7’9”. I have an 85 inch tv which sits 30” off the floor to bottom of tv. My chair distance from ear to TV is 12’ and my ear height from the floor is 3’. If you need any
Further details please let me know.
Thank you
Most in walls are rubbish and I can tell you those are. You never use in walls that are not properly loaded. That means they need to be enclosed and not just firing into the wall space. That is not a way to design a speaker. Worse the sound transmits far and wide in the home.

You do not need to angle the speaker. My in walls have good imaging and I usually sit in front of one speaker, but hear both in stereo program where only the left and right are involved. That center in not a proper three way and will have poor dispersion over the listening area.

Properly designed an in wall can have excellent dispersion. This system also has an in wall sub. You can see that dispersion is good out to 60 degrees (green line, black axis). One problem is wall reinforcement in the lower frequencies because of the large baffle of the wall. I have dealt with this by raising the cross to the sub to 150 Hz, as the sub is also in wall. I have not put the image of that up on my site though yet.



In walls are tricky and most designs make no sense.

Honestly though, if this is your primary AV system, in walls are probably not the best choice. This in wall system is a secondary system, in our main living area. It was built at the insistence of my wife. Her instruction was not to take an inch of floor space.

 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Most in walls are rubbish and I can tell you those are. You never use in walls that are not properly loaded. That means they need to be enclosed and not just firing into the wall space. That is not a way to design a speaker. Worse the sound transmits far and wide in the home.

You do not need to angle the speaker. My in walls have good imaging and I usually sit in front of one speaker, but hear both in stereo program where only the left and right are involved. That center in not a proper three way and will have poor dispersion over the listening area.

Properly designed an in wall can have excellent dispersion. This system also has an in wall sub. You can see that dispersion is good out to 60 degrees (green line, black axis). One problem is wall reinforcement in the lower frequencies because of the large baffle of the wall. I have dealt with this by raising the cross to the sub to 150 Hz, as the sub is also in wall. I have not put the image of that up on my site though yet.



In walls are tricky and most designs make no sense.

Honestly though, if this is your primary AV system, in walls are probably not the best choice. This in wall system is a secondary system, in our main living area. It was built at the insistence of my wife. Her instruction was not to take an inch of floor space.

I don't agree that back boxes are needed for a decent in-wall. The best measuring in-walls that Erin at Erin's Audio Corner did not have back boxes. I agree that it can be a problem to have the rear-firing sound transmit to other areas of the house, but that may or may not be a problem depending on your living situation. A properly loaded in-wall with a back box is probably way over the OP's budget (see the Perlisten in-walls). The designer can assume an open-baffle condition and design accordingly. The RSL in-walls might be OK, although you have to expect compromises for such a low-cost speaker. The Revel in-walls have been measured to be decent as have the Monoprice Monolith in-walls. I like RSL as a company in general, but until I see some measurements for their in-walls, I would probably go for Monolith or Revel.
 
R

Rylan

Audioholic
I don't agree that back boxes are needed for a decent in-wall. The best measuring in-walls that Erin at Erin's Audio Corner did not have back boxes. I agree that it can be a problem to have the rear-firing sound transmit to other areas of the house, but that may or may not be a problem depending on your living situation. A properly loaded in-wall with a back box is probably way over the OP's budget (see the Perlisten in-walls). The designer can assume an open-baffle condition and design accordingly. The RSL in-walls might be OK, although you have to expect compromises for such a low-cost speaker. The Revel in-walls have been measured to be decent as have the Monoprice Monolith in-walls. I like RSL as a company in general, but until I see some measurements for their in-walls, I would probably go for Monolith or Revel.
Thank you for the information! I appreciate the feedback. I did watch a good video from RSL and they do give detailed information about the W25E in-walls in this video starting at min 37:00

Sounds like there might be some good reasons to choose RSLs CG23M 5.1 system with 2 C34E Dolby Atmos speakers instead. https://rslspeakers.com/products/cg23-5-1-home-theater-speaker-system/

From what I’m reading, I might have a better ability to just mount the CH23M’s and I can get proper placement and Toe in a lot easier and I can eliminate any concern about sound traveling with the in-walls. I’m just wondering how the CH23M would work as a center channel. I’ve read a lot about the challenges the center channel has when on the horizontal plain. My room is 17’9” wide x 20’4” deep. My ceiling height is 7’4”. It’s in a carpeted finished basement family room. The bottom of my 85” tv sits at 30”.
I will be running everything on a Sony 7.2 receiver with 145w per channel. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-7-2-ch-with-dolby-atmos-4k-ultra-hd-a-v-home-theater-receiver-black/6219445.p?skuId=6219445
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I don't agree that back boxes are needed for a decent in-wall. The best measuring in-walls that Erin at Erin's Audio Corner did not have back boxes. I agree that it can be a problem to have the rear-firing sound transmit to other areas of the house, but that may or may not be a problem depending on your living situation. A properly loaded in-wall with a back box is probably way over the OP's budget (see the Perlisten in-walls). The designer can assume an open-baffle condition and design accordingly. The RSL in-walls might be OK, although you have to expect compromises for such a low-cost speaker. The Revel in-walls have been measured to be decent as have the Monoprice Monolith in-walls. I like RSL as a company in general, but until I see some measurements for their in-walls, I would probably go for Monolith or Revel.
I think there is another reason to be wary of in walls with no back box. In a fire in proximity the cones are likely to burn or melt and breech the fire wall.

Standards have, and are being developed, for air pressurization tests of the wall space. Unusually at this time the Eagan building codes require new construction pass a pressurization test.

In our case the builder was very worried my through wall TL center would cause us to fail the pressurization test. I took great pains to make sure this was not an issue, and the home passed the test with flying colors. At this time I don't think there are many jurisdictions that require this test, but you can be sure there will be.

Even if the in wall does not cause leakage, the cones will be subjected to continuous back pressure for a significant period. So that makes me wonder if they would survive it.

It was well known that how well a home can sustain its fire wall in the event of a fire, is a significant factor in fire spread and ultimate loss. That is another good reason to have in walls boxed in.
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top