Impressed with Tubes!

[WmAx]

I
I've always liked Atkinson but I've disliked his magazine since I was cured of wild audiophilia about 10 years ago. He's quite knowledgeable about audio. The high end audio industry wouldn't exist if it weren't for the subjectivism and beliefs of the participants and his magazine is right in the thick of it. He plays along in order to have a successful business but, personally, I'm pretty sure he knows better.

Yes, I believe you are right about him knowing better. I have noticed him including certain lines in some articles, of what other people quoted him as saying, and obviously as he is the editor, he would not have included these things if he did not want them printed. The things made clear he has some anti-audiophile thoughts.

-Chris

 

[mtrycrafts]

Obviously I have unleashed a few pent-up opinions. My point in initiating this thread ---- I was really impressed with the sound of the Rogue tube preamp vs. the Rotel S/S amp.

This the difference inherent in tube vs. S/S???

Only if that tube pre is not well designed and it creates a euphonic sound. Some tube preamps, reviewed in TAC in the past, are transparent because they are well designed and should not have altered the sound.
But, we didn't mention the possibility of bias and an unreliable perception of the comparison and its real sound qualities.

 

[highfihoney]

Obviously I have unleashed a few pent-up opinions. My point in initiating this thread

It dont matter what thread or what the question was to begin with,on this site if you dare mention even the hint of a tube you'll be flooded with the same stuff your getting right now.

Nice thread take over guy's

 

[highfihoney]

This thread, and others like it, are why I come here.

As to the tube sound, you won't find many tube rollers here, for the above stated reasons.

Not true,there are quite a few tube guys on this site but after going through the same endless back & forth nonsense, with the same 3 or 4 people all the time,they quit posting or responding to anything hi end related.

 

[mazersteven]

Not to Hijack this thread

But are HT tube amps like Headphone tube amps where you can tube roll?

 

[highfihoney]

Why are they nonsense? Is it because of teh maintenance? What maintenance had to be done other than changing a tube?

I dont run mny of my tube amp's very often,not because i dont like it but solid state does blow tube gear away,as for maintence required for tube gear,it takes about 10 minutes every few months to re bias the amp,thats it,nowdays alot of tube amps are self biasing so there are no maintence issues.

 

[dorokusai]

I've owned a bunch of tube amps and while I enjoy them, it's SS power for me in the end. I prefer a tube pre-amp to color things up and the generic power of a SS back end.

I'm playing with a Audio Research VS110 and it's been alot of fun.

Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[dorokusai]

I've owned a bunch of tube amps and while I enjoy them, it's SS power for me in the end. I prefer a tube pre-amp to color things up and the generic power of a SS back end.

That being said.....I'm playing with a Audio Research VS110 and it's been alot of fun.

Mark
Polk Audio CS

 

[highfihoney]

(3) In addition to the Rogue Perseus, are there other tube preamps that are recommended?

Thank you!!

If you want to get into tubes your on the right track by going with tube preamps instead of amplification,not that tube's are a bad form of amplification but because solid state amplification is a superior performer,period.

To start out you should stay away from Rogue,Audio Research,Mcintosh,Manley, ect,all good gear but very expensive,unless you have a passion for any certian brand then looking elsewhere is your best bet.

Check out this little Dared tube preamp,a friend of mine has one & i tinkered with it in one of my rig's for a few days,it was an excellent little preamp especially for the price involved.

http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?preatube&1202853397

 

[WmAx]

For 'tube' harmonic coloration(the kind of sound one might expect from SET units), try a piece of studio gear with variable tube saturation injection into the signal. You can control the amount of coloration that you want.

Behringer T1953

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHT1953

-Chris

 

[mazersteven]

Behringer T1953

What good is that if you can't see the tubes?

 

[dorokusai]

The best budget pre-amp I've heard in my travels has been the Anthem Pre-2L. If you want to go to the next level, just add a pair of caps on the output stage(2), probably $50-100 DIY, it's every bit a giant killer. The other suggestions are solid as well.

Mark

 

[Haoleb]

Not true,there are quite a few tube guys on this site but after going through the same endless back & forth nonsense, with the same 3 or 4 people all the time,they quit posting or responding to anything hi end related.

I have a fully tubed integrated amp for my computer system, and did have a tube preamp in my main system until 5 days ago when I replaced it with a better solid state unit. But i am not going to bother trying to "defend" tubes since, I really couldnt care less what someone else thinks about them. As for the high maintenance bit. Lets just say some people like to tinker and change their own oil and look under the hoods of their cars, its part of the car lovers lifestyle. I enjoy adjusting the bias every once in a while, and selecting replacement tubes when the time comes. Its not difficult, it doesnt take skill and its doesnt take long to do. And as been said already many are self biasing.

The biggest attraction to tubes for me is mainly the certain "it" they have compared to some black box full of transistors. I like they way they are superbly simple and glow ever so softly.

 

[fmw]

For 'tube' harmonic coloration(the kind of sound one might expect from SET units), try a piece of studio gear with variable tube saturation injection into the signal. You can control the amount of coloration that you want.

Behringer T1953

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHT1953

-Chris

Interesting example of marketing at work:

"absolutely pure audio quality and unbelievable detail resolution."

in other words one would expect complete transparency with nothing added by the preamp itself. I wonder what "detail resolution" is. Sounds like a description of visual things rather than sonic ones.

"Original ULTRAGAIN is a staple in studios because it gives you the extra clarity and punch missing from your mics"

Oops. Apparently not. It now ADDS clarity and punch that the mics didn't already have. Pretty confusing, huh? I'm just making a little fun. Sorry. Couldn't help it.

 

[fmw]

The biggest attraction to tubes for me is mainly the certain "it" they have compared to some black box full of transistors. I like they way they are superbly simple and glow ever so softly.

And therein lies the most valid reason of all for owning tubes. Buy them because you like them. I used to love the tube glow myself. I would sometimes lie on the floor just in front of the amplifier to feel the warmth (heat not sound) it generated. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[WmAx]

Interesting example of marketing at work:

"absolutely pure audio quality and unbelievable detail resolution."

in other words one would expect complete transparency with nothing added by the preamp itself. I wonder what "detail resolution" is. Sounds like a description of visual things rather than sonic ones.

"Original ULTRAGAIN is a staple in studios because it gives you the extra clarity and punch missing from your mics"

Oops. Apparently not. It now ADDS clarity and punch that the mics didn't already have. Pretty confusing, huh? I'm just making a little fun. Sorry. Couldn't help it.

I don't pay attention to the marketing blurbs.

-Chris

 

[fmw]

You should. They can be very entertaining.

 

[jostenmeat]

For the first time, I auditioned a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 100s run through a Rogue Perseus tube preamp & a Rotel RB1080 S/S power amp. Prior to that, I have never auditioned a tube preamp. Wow! What a difference! A richer, more integrated sound with the Rogue Perseus compared to S/S alternatives.

Thanks for your post. Please don't let any certain incessant postings get in the way of what you are trying to find out. They are trying to help you, whether it seems like it or not... you'll get used to it here.

Please keep us (or me) updated with comparisons to the Perseus. I was pretty curious about that unit recently, as its somewhat affordable compared to other extremely expensive tubed pre's, and the Perseus has HT pass-thru, which may or may not become a prerequisite for me in the future assuming I ever do go the way of tubed pre-amps.

(3) In addition to the Rogue Perseus, are there other tube preamps that are recommended?

At another forum, a common response to tube gear is "the ABC's of tubes":
Arc, BAT, Cary, a couple of others I forget. One fellow audio NUT I believe has listenened to pretty much all of the Rogue gear, and IIRC, he prefers Cary, but again this if I remember correctly. Anyways, this stuff can get very expensive very quickly. Its nice the Perseus isn't ridiculously costly, even if not cheap by any means. Oh ya, another "affordable" line like the Rogues is Jolida. And yes, the tubed pre + SS amp is a very common occurence.

Good luck.

 

[mtrycrafts]

And therein lies the most valid reason of all for owning tubes. Buy them because you like them. I used to love the tube glow myself. I would sometimes lie on the floor just in front of the amplifier to feel the warmth (heat not sound) it generated. Nothing wrong with that.

Yep, nothing wrong with liking them.
And in your case, it did double duty, warm you up and pleases with sound at the same time.

 

[B3Nut]

B3, I'm a pianist, not an organist, but not long ago I was at the Woodwind and Brasswind store and they had a Hammond XK3 setup complete with two manuals, pedal board and Leslie speaker. It was less than half the price of a full modern B3 but to me sounded about the same. I was REALLY interested in bringing one of those home but common sense got the better of me before I went crazy.

I can make organ sounds on my digital pianos and I'll stay content with that for the time being. I wonder if you have an opinion about the XK3?

The XK-3's a fantastic board. I haven't had the chance to play one, but I've heard it recorded by some good organists and through a Leslie cabinet it pretty much nails it. Hammond-Suzuki still makes tube Leslies (122XB for the new digital organs, 122A and 147A for legacy rigs) and some solid-state cabinets as well. I'm intrigued by the new Leslie 3300, a tube pre/solid-state power biamped road Leslie with 220 watts on the 15" and 80 watts on the horn rotor. None of this gear is cheap though...but the XK system is a great way to get a new Hammond rig. I'll never part with my '63 B-3 or '53 B-2 but I'd love an XK-3 board and 3300 for portability...I don't get to gig out with the "beast" much except for my church gig, since I keep my B-2 stashed at church.

Todd in Cheesecurdistan