I'm furious and now poor. Please help!!

[dem beats]

Well, I have a similar setup although I use an almost 10 year old Receiver, a Yamaha 2095 which I still love.

I have the RC-70's in the front, the RC-LCR for the center and 2 pair of RC-R (one set for the rears and one set for the Yamaha effects channels up front).

I can literally crank this system on any of the movies you've quoted and I have no problems with things getting quieter or cutting out. I looked up my receiver and found the dynamic power to be rated at 140/170/230/320W for 8,6,4 and 2 ohms respectively. I also looked up the receiver you had/have and it states a power rating of 105/170/225W for 8,4 and 3 ohms respectively. My receiver does weigh more (44 lbs) vs. the Onkyo (26 lbs). I would attribute that to the power supply. So the only thing I can think of is that the power supply at higher volumes maxes out with those speakers.

Other things to consider is when does this occur? Are you testing this out from a cold start on the receiver? How hot is the receiver when this is happening? I don't know about the whole speaker wire deal in some of the posts on this thread, but the more resistance in the wire, the harder the amp has to work and it may be shutting down with 5 speakers running at full bore in the Star Wars scene. Other movies may be just as loud, but maybe not with all the surrounds kicking in like in that scene.

The speakers themselves are awesome and I really enjoy them. I don't think you can go wrong with them for the price in their category. It may be an amp thing, but hard for me to think so based on what I've read - unless your receiver has an issue.

I had my electrical wired on a separate circuit and use a panamax 5510 for power generation/protection. I don't know if that would make a difference or not in your situation.

In my opinion though, something seems amiss with the receiver.

My 2 cents.

Where did you find those numbers for my integra receiver? I called integra's tech support and the hep-cat on the phone affirmed that the receiver doesn't like to go much lower than 6 ohms.

Just a situation update. I was working with a rep from the place I purchaced my receiver and we were goign to work it out... up untill I started getting into brass tax. now the sucker won't respond to me. I'm a little ticked off about that kind of customer service but I will work it out or else napaslm the place!!! muahahahahhaha.... OK I won't but I will be really really mad!

I have effectively been made happy and can be blown away by sound from some room treatments and by bringing all the seating placement up about 3 feet and then the rears up about 4.5 feet. Thats total about 6 feet closer. It gets deafening, comparitively. I also still have some room treatments needed to be done.

As I said from the get go I wasn't upset it wouldn't get so loud that my ears bleed it's that the receiver doesn't seam to mate well, and I don't think that will work out well in the long run.

I wanted to thank everyone who posted here. Especialy those that helped me to learn so damn much about this crazy stuff. Us noobs man, we're annoying aren't we!? Thanks all I will keep everyone up to date on the current situation as it goes on. And I will put a link here when I start my DIY sub thread. I think it will scare you all muahahahahah.

 

[mbakker]

I got the numbers by downloading them from the integra website. I just found the manual for you 5.6 receiver and looked at the specs in the back.

That was dynamic power rating specified there. Of course the other rated output seemed to be 90W for 8 ohms and 155W for 6 ohms (2 channel driven).

I just seem to think that the thing shouldn't have that big an issue driving those speakers. Just my opinion though.

 

[dem beats]

I got the numbers by downloading them from the integra website. I just found the manual for you 5.6 receiver and looked at the specs in the back.

That was dynamic power rating specified there. Of course the other rated output seemed to be 90W for 8 ohms and 155W for 6 ohms (2 channel driven).

I just seem to think that the thing shouldn't have that big an issue driving those speakers. Just my opinion though.

That was my opinion too. I was pretty pissed about it. But que sera.

 

[dem beats]

well well interesting....

So... This is completely inconclusive of much but it says something is going on here. It either proves my theory of there being an issue when all channels are driven or it's a "disk issue"

So.. I plugged in the xbox 360.. and I find myself.... TURNING IT DOWN. It's hard to play a game at anything over -25 db. Now I'm not sure how much is comming out of the rears... but boy o boy. It's loud loud loud. I played crackdown last night and went down to -32 for comfort and turned the sub off(which sucks as that game has mucho bass but the GAF was in the red).

I found this odd, but I didn't notice much. Then I put in a movie to my normal DVD player sin city.... which I did turn up but I don't think I went past -25 and it was plenty loud.... that struck me as odd... I noticed it this time. I popped in the Pod race again.. and voices seamed muted, and the sound floor was wonkey.... I have been toying with the EQ and -/+ db for each speaker doing exparaments for sound and I KNOW the rears are used so heavily in that episode 1 film, and there is almost through the whole movie a constant bass tone. These 2 things must pull much more from the receiver, but it's extremely drastic. When people talk durring the pod race scene I had to pay attention to hear them, even the announcer was quite quiet. The center for the RC series is a pain to push I think, and the receiver looses oomph when working on the other speakers.

I am also about 40 hours or so into break in and I am starting to notice a different sound in the speakers. I would say imaging is up durring HT and there is even less harsh-ness. People describe the RC as warm often, I would say "punchy" fits better. The sound is extremely tight for mid/bass and the highs are not shrill(which is probably why I love them my ears HATE shrill tones and I'm sensitive to them especialy from a speaker than a real sound being produced. Well the sound now seams to be making the speakers invisible. I have started to not notice the speakers... at all. Before I would turn around nearly if a noice came from a rear surround and now it seams the area where the sound radiates too is wider. I wouldn't say the source is less defined but it's much much more natural of a feeling. This coupled with my recent exparament.

I think I may be able to make myself really really happy and get an incredably kick arse 3 channel or 2 channel and 1 channel and only have the receiver push the surrounds. I'm hoping this will work, I don't know if You all had read the part where I unplugged the speakers at the receiver and played the scene but boy.. it played right through with a TON of power. Specificaly when I took out the center or the rear right.... the rest couldn't play to deafining levels unless I unplugged 2 channels.

SO.. I think after I get my sub made and powered I will be looking at some nice 2 channel high end amps.. anyone got a great deal on a sweet Mcintosh they don't want??

And then a mono for the center.

 

[dem beats]

I couldn't edit my post so I thought I would just throw down here...

I will be trying movies also from the XBOX to see if there is something going on with the volume there...

Somethign odd happened on the xbox last night. It shut down, the power suply was quite hot also... I changed the location and that seamed to fix the problem but it was odd none the less as there "should" have been plenty of open air for it to breathe, but it's on carpet for the moment so that can play a part... Just something I noticed, but I will put in the pod scene tonight on the xbox and see if anything else happens.

 

[dem beats]

I completely forgot about this thread due to frustration.

I did fire up my XBOX 360, and I actualy think the picture was a hair better.. the sound... well nothing to write home to momma about.

In the episode I star wars and in the Mr. and Mrs. smith collectors edition voices seam much softer than in most other movies. This is usualy nto a problem untill action scenes come about.

I will be getting a seperate amp but now I have another issue on my plate. My XBOX 360 is going out on me. the external power supply I think is shot. The box has a light on it that keeps going red and the unit itself gets the rotating red light of death on the console. I'm looking into just replacing the powercable. Hope that works.

So another set back. The good news however is, if I am properly funded as I hope to be for my next side job I may be stepping up the subwoofer project.

I still have yet to get on photobucket and show the transformation of the basement into the HT den. I am quite proud.

The design company of the subs may even build a custom driver for my aplication but I think I will just use a multiple driver set up from what they have available depending on the cost, and have about 2k watts to it. I'm extremely excited, but as with everything funds matter. So now I divide that cash with the xbox and the amps for the HT speakers.. pluss home gym..

Going gets slow and lean right now.
=D

 

[dem beats]

Update!!!

I figured best to extend this ongoing problem than create a new terrible thread just in case anyone for some ungodly reason wanted back story.


Hello all

You all probably all hate me and or this thread by now.... anyway I may have a solution today... I'm hopefull, but not too excited.

The shop I made my purchase from agreed to stop by today. One of the guys wanted to actualy see the receiver turn off. I wanted to comply.

Anyway, what has me bothered here is he recomended perhaps an ARCAM receiver to fix my problem. I went to their website, wow, looks janxy.
I was not impressed with how they wanted me to see their product. I understand it to be a bit more "audiophileish" or what have you, but the specs are bare bones and it seams to have few and far between features. Anyone have thoughts on this...

I come to find now the updated integra line sounds as it would fix my problem as the new receiver is rated down to 4 ohms instead of 6. I'm not sold on integra anymore, but I now feel familiar at least and I really like the remote and some of the features.

I do plan to upgrade, the GAF gave me credit card access and a 200-400(she may beat me but said I could) range of max amount to upgrade. I will be negotiating hard as I have dealt with this issue for a while now.

I can also distinctly heart clipping in hard rock music at higher levels.


What do you all think of integra and arcams line up?

Also... here is what I am thinking ladies and gentleman for what I want now that I know...
#1 I want it to play without cutting out at referance. Yes I intend to use seperate amps, but this will be ongoing. Is arcam suposedly a bigger juice box. The numbers say it's less powerfull, and with less versions it seams like its good better best and nothing inbetween. I'm just leery now, once bitten twice shy.

#2 I want this unit to be able to controll the entire homes entertainment (sound mainly), using an HTPC I will be making next year. Is the dual room function something worth looking into. I do NOT understand it, is this meaning it will play music in one room and a tv in the main room?

#3 HDMI, is this sticking around? I was sceptical at first, but now I keep looking at that projector I have, and i'm pretty sure when that bulb goes I will start saving up for a new HD replacement in the next few years. I only run RGB component to the epson now, but everyone says sound and video can be quite a bit better through HDMI and I think the sound processeing through digital and analog isn't up to snuff. I guess instead of predicting about HDMI value I ask you all... what should I look for to increase the processing of the sound on movies. I have a DVD player for movies as my XBOX 360 will be sent out for a re-run(RCOD!!!) and the sound/picture seamed to be slightly better from the xbox. The dvd player has HDMI port on it but I dont' use it as my receiver doesn't have one. WOuld it matter for audio and then just down convert to RGB component for video? with the XBOX I know it scales to the display automaticaly as I can't even change the displays scaled image while running the xbox 360 as the source.

#4 The guys I work with seam to dislike dennon and yamaha etc, and the better known brands. I can see why going integra instead of onkyo ("higher end") makes sense, but as all these pages prove, it meant nothing for my satisfaction. do you think these "higher end" brands are better quality or just a bunch of audiophile stones in a jar? I like being cooler than the next guy and having more rare gear, but when you rule out bread and butter Yamaha and dennon etc so I can get that, and loose the ability to play down to 4 ohms(I think every receiver in the AV line up can from dennon) how is that worth the price of the "finer tuned platinium restistors with integrated flux capacitors" when the basic job of playing my darned speakers is left out?

They will be to my placce in an hour or so, and I will have a while to thank on what I will do but coments are welcome now so I can no what better to ask.

Thanks guys.

I'll also update when they leave.

I gotte run home from work now and clean up beer bottles!

 

[Jey Jockey]

Your only problem is your amp section is unable to handle 4 ohm loads which is VERY common. Onkyo/Integra are known for being 4 ohm unstable as is Yamaha etc. Dennon and HK should be ok and most of the big amp seprates of course can handle this with ease, thats what you pay for

Arcam make very nice and highly regarded gear, and I did check for you, it is 4 ohm capable for sure.

The Integra is NOT 4 ohm capable and your sales person either doesn't know what he is talkng about(very common) or lied(very common). this is from the spec sheet on the Integra website..show it to the company and Demand that they fix your situation.

90 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.08%
105/110 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.7/0.9%
110 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 6 ohm loads, 2 channels driven at 1 kHz with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.1%

Note: it says nothing about 4 ohm loads and therefore is not capable, its that simple.

Goodluck!

 

[cfrizz]

You really are stuborn! You have wasted god knows how much of your time & other peoples time messing around with different receivers. Get yourself a 200wpc amplifier to power your speakers & be done with it! Sheesh!

How many times & in how many different ways to you have to be told this?

 

[pzaur]

If you're wanting additional information on other receivers, I suggest the search function with the make/model of your receiver for this forum as well as reading the the online-magazine portion of this website. There is a lot of information that can be obtained just by looking for it.

Don't be afraid to ask. Just pay attention to the answers. Not trying to be rude. I just think you'll answer a lot more for yourself by looking around the site.

Pioneer, Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Sherwood and many others are discussed regularly and you can answer most of your questions just by digging through past threads.

Integra
Yamaha
Denon
Pioneer
Audioholics.com reviews

-pat

 

[dem beats]

You really are stuborn! You have wasted god knows how much of your time & other peoples time messing around with different receivers. Get yourself a 200wpc amplifier to power your speakers & be done with it! Sheesh!

How many times & in how many different ways to you have to be told this?

Thanks I understand this. I did and do not have the money to do this. If the receiver was the problem with the inability to handle the load I wanted a receiver that could. It's that simple. I never mentioned I wanted to play louder. Your post did nothing to help my problem when the issue of me not being able to afford seperate amplification. Also 200 watts isn't that much more powerfull all things considering, but the headroom would be nice. Again i understand yrou point and thank you as this is what I WILL do, I just do not have the funds unless you know of a 200 WPC 7 channel amp for under 300 bucks? I'lll be going seperate when I have the chance.

I worked something out however and it's fine now.

What strikes me as odd as people who create multiple threads seam to develop less frustration here vs myself who tried to condense all info into a single thread.

I apologize for anyones wasted time, I thought this was verry informative.

 

[dem beats]

If you're wanting additional information on other receivers, I suggest the search function with the make/model of your receiver for this forum as well as reading the the online-magazine portion of this website. There is a lot of information that can be obtained just by looking for it.

Don't be afraid to ask. Just pay attention to the answers. Not trying to be rude. I just think you'll answer a lot more for yourself by looking around the site.

Pioneer, Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Sherwood and many others are discussed regularly and you can answer most of your questions just by digging through past threads.

Integra
Yamaha
Denon
Pioneer
Audioholics.com reviews

-pat

Pat,

Thank you for the info. links were helpfull.

 

[dem beats]

Your only problem is your amp section is unable to handle 4 ohm loads which is VERY common. Onkyo/Integra are known for being 4 ohm unstable as is Yamaha etc. Dennon and HK should be ok and most of the big amp seprates of course can handle this with ease, thats what you pay for

Arcam make very nice and highly regarded gear, and I did check for you, it is 4 ohm capable for sure.

The Integra is NOT 4 ohm capable and your sales person either doesn't know what he is talkng about(very common) or lied(very common). this is from the spec sheet on the Integra website..show it to the company and Demand that they fix your situation.

90 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.08%
105/110 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.7/0.9%
110 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 6 ohm loads, 2 channels driven at 1 kHz with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.1%

Note: it says nothing about 4 ohm loads and therefore is not capable, its that simple.

Goodluck!

You are the only one who came up with some info. Thanks I really really appreciate it.

 

[3db]

Denon is no beefer than Yamaha

Your only problem is your amp section is unable to handle 4 ohm loads which is VERY common. Onkyo/Integra are known for being 4 ohm unstable as is Yamaha etc. Dennon and HK should be ok and most of the big amp seprates of course can handle this with ease, thats what you pay for

Arcam make very nice and highly regarded gear, and I did check for you, it is 4 ohm capable for sure.

The Integra is NOT 4 ohm capable and your sales person either doesn't know what he is talkng about(very common) or lied(very common). this is from the spec sheet on the Integra website..show it to the company and Demand that they fix your situation.

90 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.08%
105/110 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, 2 channels driven at 1 kHz, with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.7/0.9%
110 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 6 ohm loads, 2 channels driven at 1 kHz with a maximum total harmonic distortion of 0.1%

Note: it says nothing about 4 ohm loads and therefore is not capable, its that simple.

Goodluck!

Yamaha and Denon are in the same league of receivers. I wouldn't hesitate driving a 4 ohm load with a Yammy at all as long as the efficiency is above 87db. I have a lowly Technics HT receiver driving a full set of PSBs which are rated nominally at 6ohms and it can drive them to insanely loud levels without a single glitch. I think PENG hit it right on the head that protective circuitry on his Integra is the culprit.

If I were him, I would swap in an identical Integra modle to see of the same things happen to that one.

 

[dem beats]

I thank everyone who participated in this thread!

I'm going to stop paying attention and posting in it and it should probably be closed and or deleated.

After I got the resounding news from everyone I was crazy and just needed more power I looked into it and decided I agreed but I didn't have the funds.


I continuied on with the thread only for the sake of interest in how the shop I went with would help me out and I was encouraged by some to update how everything would pan out.

Many of you do not realise the middle ground. You see either boom box quality or uber... I am neither. I saved up allot of money and time and spent my whole wad from taxes and otherwise on this project. I treated an entire room added lighting designed furniture, everythign else while having a job and GAF and doing volunteer work. To say "you need more power buy an amp" doesn't even begin to help me when I have no funds to allocate and the only hope is to get an exchange out of the place I purchased with.

I know most of you intended to help, but if you had read the last post I made asking for help again I asked many questions and only one person took the time to even help with. I had many more questions in that post but no one cared to even adress my concerns.

"how many times have we told you"
"wasted time"

so on and so forth. Pleanty of people encouraged me on hearing what happened and how it turned out, and a stickey even in our own forum says use the search and update a post already in existance instead of creating a new thread... I was just following the rules. I asume positive intent, but your message gets lost in your own personal frustrations, with either myself or you missunderstanding what I said. Beleive me, you're not the one who thought he was out 3500 bucks and f*ed over. Maybe it happened to you, but this time it's not, so don't asume I am not frustrated myself. I spent the time testing my electrical baught tools, borrowed tools, braided cable crawled on the floor with a woofer in a chair, had the SPL meter over... and then what you have doesn't work to the specs you paid for is upsetting.

Go buy a GT500 and everytime you step on the gass pedal it dies on you.... sure You're never gonna drive at 150 MPH.... at least not daily but maybe to show off....
"go buy a turbo, how many times do we have to tell you"
"quit wasting time, I don't care if you ran a diagnostic, you're wrong and your measuring equipment is wrong"

That type of attitude dioesn't make sense to me... and I don't see the point of even posting it. I know you're trying to help.. well i would like to think you folks are, but in the end... yeah it's only going to make people respect you a heck of allot less. I mean my thread is on in a long list, if you think I'm a rambling idiot, and don't care... well don't read it. If my merely posting offends you, put me on ignore. You brought the beef to the table, if it's tough for you to chew walk away don't ruin it for other folks who wanted to hear about this or myself who wanted help.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I hope I stick around the site because there is tons of info but that type of attitude is insane.