I'm furious and now poor. Please help!!

[dem beats]

That is a good tip I will try to adjust the banana plugs They are the screw in type and I am not a big fan.... I think the wire itself should be fine it is all DIY CAT cable.

 

[dem beats]

OK Mark. I understand that, and when I have the extra money I will. I do understand and have paied attention. I am on audiogon and videogon daily.

What I am more concerned about is the fact the receiver I have does not work well with the speakers. It has NOTHING to do with wanting to make my ears bleed.

My hearing is fine. The issue can be dropped, as I have had a hearing test within the last year and a half. Just like in elementary when you listen to tones and I am A-OK. I understand I may have chosen a poor name for this board. 99% of you don't like rap hip hop or R&B. You could at least not assume that I am the kid driving down the street with a trunk rattling in his rusted caddy with pants sagging.

The only car audio I ever was involved in was SQ related. If you think big subs are not important for music fine, feel that way. O fortuna isn't the same without the biggest and baddest that go low.

I don't know at what point you felt I have been disrespectfull. I'm sorry because I have obviously offended some of you because you happen to think all I listen to is loud music all the time.... I don't even remember the last concert I was at that I didn't wear ear plugs....

There isn't a genre of music I don't respect, or art that I don't apreciate it's value. Moreover I don't judge those that happen to enjoy what they do, so long as it doesn't hurt me or those I love.

Emorphien, most of the people I know who palyed in car audio in the DB drags wouldn't even come close to the car when the tones played because they feared and respected the sound.... and yes, I would say they learned the hard way and probably do have some hearing issues... I don't mean to lump you in the catagory I mentioned previously btw. At least you had something to offer other than rude snippy comments..

 

[emorphien]

Emorphien, most of the people I know who palyed in car audio in the DB drags wouldn't even come close to the car when the tones played because they feared and respected the sound.... and yes, I would say they learned the hard way and probably do have some hearing issues... I don't mean to lump you in the catagory I mentioned previously btw. At least you had something to offer other than rude snippy comments..

I realize that is the case for the pro/competition stuff. A lot of people I see modifying their car stereos though crank it up so much that I can hear it in my car when their windows and mine are closed. From the way you were talking it sounded like you might be doing the same!

Glad to year you aren't

And I agree a sub/low bass is important for some music (although a lot of what I listen to doesn't really need it).

 

[markw]

and, your point is?

OK Mark. I understand that, and when I have the extra money I will. I do understand and have paied attention. I am on audiogon and videogon daily.

What I am more concerned about is the fact the receiver I have does not work well with the speakers.

And yet again, for the umpteenth time, until you get an external amp that can drive your speakers, nothing is gonna change. There ain't no magic bullet.

So, why keep asking the same thing over and over?

As for the rest of your post, I don't see where that concerns me.

 

[tomd51]

Lighten up, Francis... If you don't understand why dem beats is still unsure as to why he experienced this problem, it could be that nothing specific has been absolutely proven to cause the problem experienced.

If you find that they're beating the question to death (see "yet again" and umpteenth time" responses), you might want to ignore the post like you stated earlier on. They're not trolling, just seem to be having difficulty finding the problem here... -TD

 

[emorphien]

Lighten up, Francis... If you don't understand why dem beats is still unsure as to why he experienced this problem, it could be that nothing specific has been absolutely proven to cause the problem experienced.

If you find that they're beating the question to death (see "yet again" and umpteenth time" responses), you might want to ignore the post like you stated earlier on. They're not trolling, just seem to be having difficulty finding the problem here... -TD

We tend to babble and ramble on, which makes it hard to people to sift through and find the answer.

 

[markw]

Point taken.

Lighten up, Francis... If you don't understand why dem beats is still unsure as to why he experienced this problem, it could be that nothing specific has been absolutely proven to cause the problem experienced.

If you find that they're beating the question to death (see "yet again" and umpteenth time" responses), you might want to ignore the post like you stated earlier on. They're not trolling, just seem to be having difficulty finding the problem here... -TD

Obviously, I'm not getting through. Markw out.

 

[tomd51]

We tend to babble and ramble on, which makes it hard to people to sift through and find the answer.

True, I'd be lying if I said I didn't do it myself at times. I think this just happens to be one of those "hmm... " problems that seems to be tough to completely pin down, but fortunately most of the input has been right on the money IMO... -TD

 

[jinjuku]

I understand where MarkW is coming from folks. The general gist is: Get a different AMP/Receiver and try again.

That isn't a far fetched or esoteric suggestion. Either find a friend, or go to Best Buy/Circuit City/What ever, get the baddest boy they got, hook it up and see what flys. If it works, you know, if it still doesn't, then return it under the return policy and come back to this thread w/ the findings. Cross another potential problem off the list. This is T-shooting 101.

Nothing is more aggravating than asking a forum for help, and then not following the advice.

If everything else has been eliminated (AC Voltage, speaker cables, the speakers themselves) what other choice is there?

I have another question, why are you running CAT 5 data cable for the hi-power section? Isn't that why they make 12AWG Speaker cable? You need to get back down to the K.I.S.S theory.

 

[markw]

Cat 5 speaker cable?

I've heard tell that twisted pair cat 5, as used in speaker cable construction, has extremely high capacitance which not all amps take kindly too.

If you haven't yet, you might try some plain vanilla generic 12 to 16 gauge cable from Lowes or Home Depot. Ya never know and it's a cheap fix.

 

[tomd51]

I wasn't sure myself what the capacity of CAT5 was in comparision to some nice, thick 12 or 14 AWG wire.

This could be a pretty simple test, even if you just ran it across the room and hooked up all speakers in the configuration, then slowly ramped up the power on a fairly demanding soundtrack... -TD

 

[markw]

I wasn't sure myself what the capacity of CAT5 was in comparision to some nice, thick 12 or 14 AWG wire.

This could be a pretty simple test, even if you just ran it across the room and hooked up all speakers in the configuration, then slowly ramped up the power on a fairly demanding soundtrack... -TD

It's not a reference to "capacity", as in how much power it can pass.

Capacitance is one of the three main electrical parameters that deal with wires. Along with inductance and resistance, these three numbers help determine how well suited to a task a particular wire might be. Some amps are more sensitive than others.

Back in "the day", A certain trendy, expensive naim brand amp was brought to it's smoking knees by some hi-glitz, high cost, high capacitance, low inductance speaker cable which, BTW, was made of many twister pairs.

I still don't think it'll play loud enough to satisfy, but trying "normal" speaker cable may buy an extra db or so.

 

[PENG]

It's not a reference to "capacity", as in how much power it can pass.

Capacitance is one of the three main electrical parameters that deal with wires. Along with inductance and resistance, these three numbers help determine how well suited to a task a particular wire might be. Some amps are more sensitive than others.

Back in "the day", A certain trendy, expensive naim brand amp was brought to it's smoking knees by some hi-glitz, high cost, high capacitance, low inductance speaker cable which, BTW, was made of many twister pairs.

I still don't think it'll play loud enough to satisfy, but trying "normal" speaker cable may buy an extra db or so.

I agree those CAT (he didn't say CAT5) cables could be a contributing factor. As Tom suggested before, he really should try using some regular (even Home depot wires will do) 12 gauge wires and see if it makes a difference.

 

[dem beats]

I'm sorry guys!
I thought I had mentioned I tried this earlier durring the whole making sure there isn't a short portion. I used some 14 gauge speaker wire, (they were shorter runs in the rear though) and I had the same issue.

I will be getting a new receiver verry soon. One with a 4 ohm capacity. I am just waiting for a response from the rep at the store.

To be fair I didn't explain myself in as simple terms as maybe I could have....

The reson I came back to this was to perhaps hear sugestions of what type of receiver I should look at that can handle 4 ohm loads? I cannot afford either a few 2 channel and a 1 channel, or a 5 channel amp with the suggested power rating right now. It would be minimum 500 dollars and that scratch isn't there at the moment. I hate to toss another 100-200 bucks at a receiver but if it can handle the load without issue it would be fine. I know you guys suggested maybe having a different amp for the fronts, which may help I can't deny it did alow me to go up 1 or 2 click on the receiver, it still shut off as the load is just too much I think. I just unplugged the towers and played the same scenes without them and encountered the same problem just 1-2 clicks up from the receiver. Maybe if I had it only drive one speaker... but anyway. I know I NEED a more powerfull amp to be satisfied. I was able recenly to listen to a beautiful Mcintosh amp Vs a verry nice NAD AV receiver driving some NHT classic 3's and the difference was incredable. Not even for the incredable action scenes, but voices and the soundtrack were much more alive.... SO I will at some point get into an external set up.

What I want to do right now is have a receiver that won't go into safe mode because it's killing itself just trying to play the speakers. If you are saying this just isn't possible, then I will have to sit there and look at the speakers untill I can afford a new amp because last time I was having a little x files marathon the receiver was a heck of allot warmer than I thought it should be. I have resolved to not watch for more than an hour and a half and only at lower levels.

You have to understand how heartbreaking this it. While I'm out I spend most of the day thinking about what new CD should I play or what new movie should I watch.. and now I can't.

I'm sorry if I seamed redundant, I was meaning to ask for opinions about what I should look for in a new receiver with the features I mentioned I liked, and if anyone had something that they personaly thought was a great feature, let me know. I am also seriously thinking about maybe using a second room function, and I now want music in the whole house, or outside.... I didn't want to start a new thread as I #1 don't like it when people Spam threads all day, and #2Haven't really found complete closure.

If you have any ideas let me know. Thanks for all the advice. And yes I will be getting a seperate amp.

 

[yettitheman]

My thought was the receiver is rated at 6ohms, but the speakers rate 4 ohms minimum. The sales rep said this shouldn't be happening, and the ohm rating doesn't matter. I thought maybe a short in my wires, but then one of the speakers wouldn't sound right when running the test run to auto set up the speakers right???? I am used to car audio and I remember what happened when I pushed an amp that wasn't made to run a 4 ohm sub was used and you tried to run it hard.
thanks all

What gauge of speaker cable are you using for curiousity's sake?
Also, if your reciever states 6 ohms, then you very well could have a problem if your speakers want to be driven at 4 ohms. The lower a number in ohms for a circuit, the more electricity will conduct through a circuit. If your speakers are rated 4 ohms, your speakers are designed to handle less resistance from an amplifier and need that 4 ohm stable power because the circuit that those particular speakers make is less resistant to electrical impulse and power in general. If your reciever is only pushing out 6 ohms, then your reciever is putting out less stated wattage (even though stated wattage for most HT recievers is overstated to a degree). So, you could in fact listen at a quiet volume and hear everything ok, but as soon as you increase the volume, your amplifiers demand is greater, becuase the speakers can accept more current that what you are able to push through your amp; and then when you turn your volume up to the level that you desire (the level that immerses you in the movie which is probably at a high level), the amplifier runs out of steam to drive the speakers (overload).

 

[yettitheman]

If else fails.... find someone that you know (or a company that will let you do this) to borrow/rent/trial a pair of more efficient speakers (like Klipsch for example) to see if the volume itself is louder without protect mode kicking in.

However, it may be a moot point now that it appears you have returned some of your equipement?

 

[dem beats]

If else fails....

However, it may be a moot point now that it appears you have returned some of your equipement?

I will be returning it. But that was an outside the box Idea I didn't think of, to try new speakers. I can see if I know anyone.. Maybe bring the receiver to their house and swap out would work well.....

I really just hope to get a receiver that won't be killing itself I'll play it at lower levels and then save my nickles and dimes for am amp.

 

[PENG]

I really just hope to get a receiver that won't be killing itself I'll play it at lower levels and then save my nickles and dimes for am amp.

You may want to consider a used NAD receiver until you are ready to get an amp. Their so call PowerDrive technology and the cooling fan allow them to drive low impedance loads. I am sure there are other receivers that can do the job for you but the one I know for sure is the Denon 3805. Before I added an external amp, it was driving my 87 dB sensitivity minimum 4ohm tower and center speakers all day long and never shut itself down even at very high SPL. If you can find one, it will be cheap.

 

[emorphien]

Good suggestion for NAD. I know it shouldn't have any problems with that load although I'm sure as mentioned the Denon and some others can probably do it too. From my experience though, the amplification in NADs is very robust and can handle inefficient speakers with fairly low impedance quite well.

 

[PENG]

Good suggestion for NAD. I know it shouldn't have any problems with that load although I'm sure as mentioned the Denon and some others can probably do it too. From my experience though, the amplification in NADs is very robust and can handle inefficient speakers with fairly low impedance quite well.

You're absolutely right about those heavy/beefy NAD receiver's ability to drive low impedance watts/current hungry speakers, but even the T75X models may cost more than what he has in mind. That's why I suggested the used ones.