I want to upgrade to Martin Logan 60XT

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chrysler82000

Junior Audioholic
Can anyone offer me any feed back on the Martin Logan 60XT? I'm looking to upgrade from my Klipsch RP8000F. These Klipsch sound muddled and a bit flat to me. They offer plenty of low end. But I don't need low end, I have dual SVS PB3000. I listen to music and watch a ton of movies. Will the Martin Logan pair well with the rest of my klipsch. Is it worth the upgrade? My system:
65"LG OledC8. beautiful picture
Marantz SR7012
Crown xl1002. I added this to push the 8000F the marantz didn't have enough
2 Klipsch Rp8000F
Klipsch RP504C
4 Klipsch RP502S
4 Klipsch RP500SA
2 SVS PB3000

Thanks for any feedback
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Samurai
Can anyone offer me any feed back on the Martin Logan 60XT? I'm looking to upgrade from my Klipsch RP8000F. These Klipsch sound muddled and a bit flat to me. They offer plenty of low end. But I don't need low end, I have dual SVS PB3000. I listen to music and watch a ton of movies. Will the Martin Logan pair well with the rest of my klipsch. Is it worth the upgrade? My system:
65"LG OledC8. beautiful picture
Marantz SR7012
Crown xl1002. I added this to push the 8000F the marantz didn't have enough
2 Klipsch Rp8000F
Klipsch RP504C
4 Klipsch RP502S
4 Klipsch RP500SA
2 SVS PB3000

Thanks for any feedback
Any info you can give us on room pictures room size layout treatments you've done reciever you use and with the reciever any room correction applied?

Hard to give feedback without info

I owned the RP 8000fs and muddied was not something I'd describe them as

We need to make sure it's not a set up issue or a room issue rooms do impact sound

No sense spending more money if it can't be tweaked

But if you've done all that then I've heard good things about the Logan's

But you'd also need to factor in a matching center channel you want the front 3 to timber match altho it's not set in stone it's preffered the rest of the speak ers don't have to as much
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
No comment on the Klipsch's, but my audition of the Martin Logan 60XT was very nice, and I enjoyed them a great deal. At full retail cost, I didn't think they were worth the premium price point, especially compared to Monitor Audio Silver 500, for example. At the discounted price that they are selling for now, they are a very good speaker.

Between the two designs, you have completely different beasts. My own preferences tend towards 3-way designs over 2-way, and I also prefer wider dispersion over controlled directivity (horns). YMMV

I agree with Danzilla that you will at least need to match your front 3... I would not put the 60XTs together with a Klipsch center. I am willing to go out on the limb and say they will not have a similar sound quality, if that is a concern to you.

Now...
Crown xl1002. I added this to push the 8000F the marantz didn't have enough
Enough what?
With the measured sensitivity of the Klipsh 8000RPF at 92 dB, you only need ~32w of power to make them hit Reference Level Dynamic Peaks @ 1 meter... and in a moderate size room with some boundary support, 64w will get you that same level roughly out to 2 meters.
Which begs the question:
How loud do you listen?

These Klipsch sound muddled and a bit flat to me.
I could conceive of the muddled comment, but based on what I know about Klipsch and the review Shady did for the 8000s, flat doesn't come to mind...
Which leads me back to Danzilla's comment about how you have your room and speakers set up. I think you have something amiss, acoustically, and you should first look at identifying that before spending on new speakers.
This could be anything from Speaker Placement, Sub Placement, Crossover Settings, etc.

Looking at proper set up is a FREE UPGRADEm and this is where you should start. Then, consider new speakers if you are not enjoying the Klipsch.
:D
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
Can you audition them side by side with your speakers in your room? Might tell you more than we can....
 
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chrysler82000

Junior Audioholic
Any info you can give us on room pictures room size layout treatments you've done reciever you use and with the reciever any room correction applied?

Hard to give feedback without info

I owned the RP 8000fs and muddied was not something I'd describe them as

We need to make sure it's not a set up issue or a room issue rooms do impact sound

No sense spending more money if it can't be tweaked

But if you've done all that then I've heard good things about the Logan's

But you'd also need to factor in a matching center channel you want the front 3 to timber match altho it's not set in stone it's preffered the rest of the speak ers don't have to as much
Thanks
I'll post some pics when I get home. My room is a box 12' x 13' 8ft ceilings, hard floors no carpet. As a theatre room watching movies, I'm there. Getting acoustics to my liking has definitely been a challenge. I pretty much relied on Audyssey and then tweaked, mostly the pb3000, I was able to turn those way up. And now they really slam. So now I'm working on getting good 2 channel sound for music. I have 20 year old Klipsch RFii's that sound better. I might not get the same volume as the 8000's but they sound clean, crisp, refined. And this is audioholics, I might have a problem. Every couple months I'm replacing something.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks
I'll post some pics when I get home. My room is a box 12' x 13' 8ft ceilings, hard floors no carpet. As a theatre room watching movies, I'm there. Getting acoustics to my liking has definitely been a challenge. I pretty much relied on Audyssey and then tweaked, mostly the pb3000, I was able to turn those way up. And now they really slam. So now I'm working on getting good 2 channel sound for music. I have 20 year old Klipsch RFii's that sound better. I might not get the same volume as the 8000's but they sound clean, crisp, refined. And this is audioholics, I might have a problem. Every couple months I'm replacing something.
How far back do you sit from the speakers?
Where are the speakers in relation to the front wall (stand-off distance)?
How far from the side walls?
How far apart are the speakers, on center?
 
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chrysler82000

Junior Audioholic
No comment on the Klipsch's, but my audition of the Martin Logan 60XT was very nice, and I enjoyed them a great deal. At full retail cost, I didn't think they were worth the premium price point, especially compared to Monitor Audio Silver 500, for example. At the discounted price that they are selling for now, they are a very good speaker.

Between the two designs, you have completely different beasts. My own preferences tend towards 3-way designs over 2-way, and I also prefer wider dispersion over controlled directivity (horns). YMMV

I agree with Danzilla that you will at least need to match your front 3... I would not put the 60XTs together with a Klipsch center. I am willing to go out on the limb and say they will not have a similar sound quality, if that is a concern to you.

Now...

Enough what?
With the measured sensitivity of the Klipsh 8000RPF at 92 dB, you only need ~32w of power to make them hit Reference Level Dynamic Peaks @ 1 meter... and in a moderate size room with some boundary support, 64w will get you that same level roughly out to 2 meters.
Which begs the question:
How loud do you listen?


I could conceive of the muddled comment, but based on what I know about Klipsch and the review Shady did for the 8000s, flat doesn't come to mind...
Which leads me back to Danzilla's comment about how you have your room and speakers set up. I think you have something amiss, acoustically, and you should first look at identifying that before spending on new speakers.
This could be anything from Speaker Placement, Sub Placement, Crossover Settings, etc.

Looking at proper set up is a FREE UPGRADEm and this is where you should start. Then, consider new speakers if you are not enjoying the Klipsch.
:D
I looked up your philharmonic. I've never heard of them. Read some reviews and it sure sounds like you get a lot of bang for the buck, How do they sound?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
FWIW Dennis Murphy (Philharmonic Audio) is a member here but had to retire the business recently due to health concerns. One design, the BMR, is still available thru Salk speakers (who he does crossover work with) and even as a diy kit now thru Meniscus.

ps The site is still up if you want to look at what he had.... http://philharmonicaudio.com/
 
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Danzilla31

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks
I'll post some pics when I get home. My room is a box 12' x 13' 8ft ceilings, hard floors no carpet. As a theatre room watching movies, I'm there. Getting acoustics to my liking has definitely been a challenge. I pretty much relied on Audyssey and then tweaked, mostly the pb3000, I was able to turn those way up. And now they really slam. So now I'm working on getting good 2 channel sound for music. I have 20 year old Klipsch RFii's that sound better. I might not get the same volume as the 8000's but they sound clean, crisp, refined. And this is audioholics, I might have a problem. Every couple months I'm replacing something.
If your talking about the flagship RF ii's with the dual 10's they will sound better that was Klipsch top of the line back in the day the step up to those is the new RF iii's

One issue that you might be having is in that room size I doubght your sitting that far back
from the Klipsch 8000

A 2 way horn like these needs at least 8 to 9ft back to integrate the drivers properly

If your A lot closer then that it's going to mess up the sound they need room from the listener to do they're thing

If that's the case I thoroughly agree with ryanosaur a wider dispersion 3 way speaker would be ideal as your mains if your closer to them and the Logan's would be a great choice

Just flip the 8000's if this is the situation klipsch have good resale value or return them if you can and get the Logan's with a matching center
 
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chrysler82000

Junior Audioholic
FWIW Dennis Murphy (Philharmonic Audio) is a member here but had to retire the business recently due to health concerns. One design, the BMR, is still available thru Salk speakers (who he does crossover work with) and even as a diy kit now thru Meniscus.

ps The site is still up if you want to look at what he had....http://philharmonicaudio.com/
That's the website where I was reading the reviews. And pretty much the only place you can read anything on them. I can humbly admit I am not in anyway technical. The charts and the explanations went way over my head. I'm more of, I listen, I hear, I play around and I watch and listen. And then read forums and reviews. It doesn't surprise me that these RP8000's sound the way they do, after all they sell for $1000/pair. I moved my Klipsch R112Ssw upstairs after I bought the pb3k. And between these 2 subs, absolutely no comparison. This is like playing high school ball and professional ball. The svs are in a different league. I suspect the Martin Logan 60XTi will have a similar impact on me. It's either replace these Klipsch or replace my 65:" Oled with the 77" Oled. Right now there aren't any Oled deals, but there is a deal for the 60XT and refurb 60XTI $1199. I'm just not sure how the Martin Logan will pair with the 9 Klipsch speakers I am not going to replace.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
That's the website where I was reading the reviews. And pretty much the only place you can read anything on them. I can humbly admit I am not in anyway technical. The charts and the explanations went way over my head. I'm more of, I listen, I hear, I play around and I watch and listen. And then read forums and reviews. It doesn't surprise me that these RP8000's sound the way they do, after all they sell for $1000/pair. I moved my Klipsch R112Ssw upstairs after I bought the pb3k. And between these 2 subs, absolutely no comparison. This is like playing high school ball and professional ball. The svs are in a different league. I suspect the Martin Logan 60XTi will have a similar impact on me. It's either replace these Klipsch or replace my 65:" Oled with the 77" Oled. Right now there aren't any Oled deals, but there is a deal for the 60XT and refurb 60XTI $1199. I'm just not sure how the Martin Logan will pair with the 9 Klipsch speakers I am not going to replace.
Fair amount of discussion about Philharmonic speakers here on AH, heck you could even ask Dennis himself :) I don't put much into subjective reviews except as a bit of information, user comments are more important to me.

I'd be mostly concerned about the front three as far as matching goes, more so than how they'll integrate with surrounds, but there can be something to matching surrounds IME (I do when I can).

You might like this article about interpreting speaker spec/measurements https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/understanding-loudspeaker-measurements-part-1.114881/
 
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chrysler82000

Junior Audioholic
Fair amount of discussion about Philharmonic speakers here on AH, heck you could even ask Dennis himself :) I don't put much into subjective reviews except as a bit of information, user comments are more important to me.

I'd be mostly concerned about the front three as far as matching goes, more so than how they'll integrate with surrounds, but there can be something to matching surrounds IME (I do when I can).

You might like this article about interpreting speaker spec/measurements https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/understanding-loudspeaker-measurements-part-1.114881/
That was an intersting article. And as mush as I learned about Spin o Rama I don't have anything to bench mark and then compare too. I've read plenty of reviews on loud speakers, but I have never read a chart on a loud speaker. Is this information available? Everything I've learned these past 13 months, speaker placement is key, and will certainly affect what you hear. Sound is subjective, this is obvious to me because the reviews for the Klipsch RP8000F's has a 100% 5 star rating on Amazon. So I gotta ask myself, did I do something wrong, is my room not the right fit for these speakers. Maybe I need to play around with my Crown XLS1002. Or am I expecting more. I'm kinda leaning to I'm expecting more. The only reason I even thought about replacing these Klipsch was because I watched youthman on youtube and he was demoing the 60XTI. And he and I have very similar likes. This was my first post on this audioholics forum. I am thankful and impressed with the responses I have received. I tend to read quite a few of the discussions on this forum. I like to hear what others have experienced. Gives me something to try at home. Thanks again for the article. I'll have to read it again, there was quite a bit of information in there.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Slumlord
That was an intersting article. And as mush as I learned about Spin o Rama I don't have anything to bench mark and then compare too. I've read plenty of reviews on loud speakers, but I have never read a chart on a loud speaker. Is this information available? Everything I've learned these past 13 months, speaker placement is key, and will certainly affect what you hear. Sound is subjective, this is obvious to me because the reviews for the Klipsch RP8000F's has a 100% 5 star rating on Amazon. So I gotta ask myself, did I do something wrong, is my room not the right fit for these speakers. Maybe I need to play around with my Crown XLS1002. Or am I expecting more. I'm kinda leaning to I'm expecting more. The only reason I even thought about replacing these Klipsch was because I watched youthman on youtube and he was demoing the 60XTI. And he and I have very similar likes. This was my first post on this audioholics forum. I am thankful and impressed with the responses I have received. I tend to read quite a few of the discussions on this forum. I like to hear what others have experienced. Gives me something to try at home. Thanks again for the article. I'll have to read it again, there was quite a bit of information in there.
Better speaker manufacturers post measurements or will provide them upon request. You can use the better reviews (ones with measurements rather than only subjective creative writing). Your room is a good chunk of what happens sound wise with your speakers and especially subs. Expectations and upgraditis can be hard on the wallet :) Look around, pick up some knowledge, take your time with changes. Maximize what you've got.
 
N

nonametofame

Audiophyte
That was an intersting article. And as mush as I learned about Spin o Rama I don't have anything to bench mark and then compare too. I've read plenty of reviews on loud speakers, but I have never read a chart on a loud speaker. Is this information available? Everything I've learned these past 13 months, speaker placement is key, and will certainly affect what you hear. Sound is subjective, this is obvious to me because the reviews for the Klipsch RP8000F's has a 100% 5 star rating on Amazon. So I gotta ask myself, did I do something wrong, is my room not the right fit for these speakers. Maybe I need to play around with my Crown XLS1002. Or am I expecting more. I'm kinda leaning to I'm expecting more. The only reason I even thought about replacing these Klipsch was because I watched youthman on youtube and he was demoing the 60XTI. And he and I have very similar likes. This was my first post on this audioholics forum. I am thankful and impressed with the responses I have received. I tend to read quite a few of the discussions on this forum. I like to hear what others have experienced. Gives me something to try at home. Thanks again for the article. I'll have to read it again, there was quite a bit of information in there.
Sit tight, Youthman is doing a comparison video soon on the 60XTi vs the RF7III. That should give you a better sense of the pros and cons on both. The RP8000Fs also benefit from the more refined horn tweeter that smooths out the top end, in this more recent Klipsch line. Youthman has come from a lifetime of being a Klipsch loyalist so my guess is that he's enjoying a different type of sound. I recently have gone from "bright, lively, detailed" speakers to a more "refined" signature, and that's what I'm suspecting Michael is experiencing as well. I never really enjoyed 2ch music until this recent change from Def Techs to ML's myself. Keep researching and tweak what you have until you get it more to your liking.
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Junior Audioholic
Look at canton speakers, accessories for less has great deals. For under $3000 you can get beautiful vento 896 and 866.2 center. All new too, it’s what I ended up with. I spent over a year trying really everything that sold for under 10k for front 3. The 896 vento out class the 60xt or 60xti in every way. They also look way better too doing it. But it’s not really fair those 896 retailed for $6400 a pair. Just make sure you have room for the center speaker, it’s a big boy and a nice 3 way design.
 
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chrysler82000

Junior Audioholic
Thanks again for all your help. I went to the Best Buy last night to take a listen to the martin Logan 60XTI. They didn't have any. However they did have the 40's. I was sadly not impressed with the 40's. I was more impressed with the B&W's 700 series. But at $2500 each, definitely not worth that. So I went home and as was suggested to me by some of you, I played around with crossovers. And too my surprise I found some discrepancies. Turns out the Crown, which is a 2 channel amp, was all messed up between the 2 channels. I fixed that. I still didn't get that lively pop I was looking for in stereo 2 channel mode. So I dug into the Marantz. And to my surprise, more errors. 2 Channel playback mode was messed up. Crossover's were not set correctly and the 2 subs were at different levels. So I fixed that. Much much better. Of course in the process I accidentally lost my theater room settings I had saved. This weekend I'll get that back to my liking.

Maybe this weekend I'll stop bye the Magnolia Theater design store. I was informed by the Best Buy associate this is the place to go for all the High End equipment.

I took a few pics last night. So that wall my 65" Oled is mounted on is 6" thick and soundproofed. When I first started this project December 2018 I was getting quite a few uninvited guests knocking at the door. The men in blue requested I turn it down as it was disturbing my neighbor. I live in a townhouse and my neighbor is a single 70 year old woman. We have since made peace and become good friends. Whenever, whatever she needs she knows I'll jump and take care of it for her immediately. In return, no more surprise visits from the uninvited. If anyone is interested, I have about $10K invested. Between the cabinet, stands, wiring, amps, tv, and speakers. It does sound really good. I'm just trying to make it better.
 

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chrysler82000

Junior Audioholic
For danzilla, you will recognize I am sitting beyond your suggested 9 feet. And ryanosaur. my 7012 is only one step up to your 6012, so I'm sure you aware the 7012 can process 11 channels with a separate power source. My power source for the 2 rear heights is a 20 year old Rotel RB981
 

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chrysler82000

Junior Audioholic
Sit tight, Youthman is doing a comparison video soon on the 60XTi vs the RF7III. That should give you a better sense of the pros and cons on both. The RP8000Fs also benefit from the more refined horn tweeter that smooths out the top end, in this more recent Klipsch line. Youthman has come from a lifetime of being a Klipsch loyalist so my guess is that he's enjoying a different type of sound. I recently have gone from "bright, lively, detailed" speakers to a more "refined" signature, and that's what I'm suspecting Michael is experiencing as well. I never really enjoyed 2ch music until this recent change from Def Techs to ML's myself. Keep researching and tweak what you have until you get it more to your liking.
I'm definetly going to be looking for his next demo/comparison 60XTi vs the RF7III. Not sure how myou know that, but I'll be looking for it. I woulda never bought the pb3k had it not been his video, 2 15" klipsch versus pb3k. That day I watched this video I nearly pulled the trigger on a second R112SW. So glad I didn't. I couldn't be happier with the pb3k, so happy, 3 months later I bought a second one. Of course I was very interested in his pb3k versus Monolith 15" and I thought I mighta made a mistake. But after 5 months, I really like the svs app and play around all the time. And the Monolith has had some problems with there 1000 watt amp. I do believe this is why they are completely out of stock. You can't find one right now. And givin my room size the Monolith would just be too much.
 

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