I noticed an improvement, wonder what you guys think.

mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
... When switching out a component like a receiver, that you’ve listened to for a couple years, and switch out with one that sounds inferior to the last one, or vice versa, you notice, ...
You can certainly believe this. ;)
 
P

Paul Mohr

Audioholic Intern
The only time I can really tell is if something just doesn't have the power for a particular set of speakers or room. Like I said in my other post I can tell when they lack bass or dynamic range if used with the same or similar full range speakers. And that can be measured as well. I am not talking about some magical quality you can't actually measure or repeat. And that is without using any dsp trickery or equalizers. Just two channel direct output modes. Most stuff sounds fine to me as far as clarity and imaging goes unless its really cheap garbage. I would think most solid state stuff should about the same in those regards, same goes for cables and wire. If your new solid state equipment is coloring or adding something to the sound they really did something wrong with it.

Our brains really don't do that great of job perceiving audio and video and can easily be tricked. I don't take a whole of stock in what someone else hears. Especially when they use fufu adjectives and terms to describe it. I am not saying they didn't hear it, or they liked or didn't like what they heard. Just that it might not be the same for me. I have a story I like to share with people. When I was younger I used to build my own speakers and had a fairly off the shelf system. Pioneer receiver and dvd/cd player. I went to a local high end shop to listen to some nicer stuff. I was wondering how good B&W speakers sounded and if I could actually afford them. I told them I was young and didn't have a lot of money and was just looking around. I didn't want them wasting a bunch of time on me because I probably wasn't going to buy anything for a while, if at all. They were nice to me and showed me around letting me listen to several systems. Must have been a slow day lol. I listened to some entry level higher end stuff. A pre amp with a stereo amp and a basic set of B&W towers. I forget the brands and models, it was a while ago lol. Maybe 3 grand worth of stuff? Then I listened to some more expensive stuff including a system that was stupid expensive. I commented I actually liked the cheaper system better and none of it was THAT much better than what I had. At least not with the kind of music I liked and at normal listening levels. One guy flat out got mad at me and argued lol. I told him I wasn't saying they sounded the same to me. I was saying the 300,000 dollar system didn't sound 100 times better than the 3,000 dollar one. And the 3,000 dollar one was only marginally better than what I had. It wasn't like I was going to throw my set up away, sell my car and buy a new stereo. I did really want those B&W towers though lol but in the end I wound up rebuilding the engine in my buick GS instead.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
The only time I can really tell is if something just doesn't have the power for a particular set of speakers or room. Like I said in my other post I can tell when they lack bass or dynamic range if used with the same or similar full range speakers. And that can be measured as well. I am not talking about some magical quality you can't actually measure or repeat. And that is without using any dsp trickery or equalizers. Just two channel direct output modes. Most stuff sounds fine to me as far as clarity and imaging goes unless its really cheap garbage. I would think most solid state stuff should about the same in those regards, same goes for cables and wire. If your new solid state equipment is coloring or adding something to the sound they really did something wrong with it.

Our brains really don't do that great of job perceiving audio and video and can easily be tricked. I don't take a whole of stock in what someone else hears. Especially when they use fufu adjectives and terms to describe it. I am not saying they didn't hear it, or they liked or didn't like what they heard. Just that it might not be the same for me. I have a story I like to share with people. When I was younger I used to build my own speakers and had a fairly off the shelf system. Pioneer receiver and dvd/cd player. I went to a local high end shop to listen to some nicer stuff. I was wondering how good B&W speakers sounded and if I could actually afford them. I told them I was young and didn't have a lot of money and was just looking around. I didn't want them wasting a bunch of time on me because I probably wasn't going to buy anything for a while, if at all. They were nice to me and showed me around letting me listen to several systems. Must have been a slow day lol. I listened to some entry level higher end stuff. A pre amp with a stereo amp and a basic set of B&W towers. I forget the brands and models, it was a while ago lol. Maybe 3 grand worth of stuff? Then I listened to some more expensive stuff including a system that was stupid expensive. I commented I actually liked the cheaper system better and none of it was THAT much better than what I had. At least not with the kind of music I liked and at normal listening levels. One guy flat out got mad at me and argued lol. I told him I wasn't saying they sounded the same to me. I was saying the 300,000 dollar system didn't sound 100 times better than the 3,000 dollar one. And the 3,000 dollar one was only marginally better than what I had. It wasn't like I was going to throw my set up away, sell my car and buy a new stereo. I did really want those B&W towers though lol but in the end I wound up rebuilding the engine in my buick GS instead.
What year GS?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Have you tried Swiss chocolates recently? ;)
They can be heavenly.:D
I recently discovered there are chocolate desserts that have some cayenne pepper in them for a dash of heat. That intrigued me so I hooked up my "bright" or aka "hot" Yamaha to my "chocolatey" Marantz and the results are surprisingly delicious! The cool chocolatey mids of the Marantz are a perfect contrast to the dash of heat I get from the hot treble of the Yamaha.
 
H

HT Tweeker

Enthusiast
You should hear an Anthem then, they make all the Asian machines sound bad
 
P

Paul Mohr

Audioholic Intern
What year GS?
1972. I put a Kenne Bell intake and headers on, holley carb with a velocity stack and cowl induction scoop. Stage 1 heads and mild cam though with a shift kit. It was fun to drive and would do burn outs forever lol but it really wasn't a winner at the drag strip. It just couldn't couldn't keep up with lighter cars that had lower gears. I think it ran 14's? Crap tires and a stock suspension too. Top end was impressive though. Heck I got beat by a 80's honda CRX once in a street race lol. Later in my 30's I got a 79 camaro with a built 350 and 410 posi. That did 12's but it was worthless for daily driving.
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Field Marshall
Good Grief!!!
Stick around some of the Threads on AH are Comical, I went back 10 years on some Threads to check. :) G-Men of the midway! Sure hope NYG’s don’t let Dallas take your Division again this upcoming 2020 NFL season. NFC South gotta deal with Tom Brady. My New Orleans Saints and Drew Brees gonna have a field day opening season game at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome in New Orleans. Old Tom gonna need Hazard pay for sure.:) Wait till the Falcons (Dirty birds) and Panthers (WildCats) get their shot at ole TB. NFC South Division gonna be leading the NFL in late hits on QB,s. TB isn’t built to QB in one of the Toughest divisions in NFL.
 
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S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
I'd like to hear more detail about your set-up.
OK, my Sony TA-E9000ES Pre-Pro receives: analog stereo from Tuner, Turntable, Compact Cassette Recorder, DVD Player, Universal Player, and DAT Recorders, as well as, digital stereo from CD Player, DAT Recorders, TV or PC via OPPO 205 usb B, External Sound Card, or Airport Express. The Pre-Pro feeds a 5 channel Sony TA-N9000ES Power Amp.

My Sony TA-P9000ES Multi-channel Preamplifier receives 5.1 analog form OPPO 205 via Thumb Drive, Disc Drive,, usb Drive, Network, or HDMI connection to PC. The Preamplifier is feed to the Pre-Pro's bypass to Power Amp. So, two preamps running one power amp.
 
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CajunLB

CajunLB

Full Audioholic
I recently discovered there are chocolate desserts that have some cayenne pepper in them for a dash of heat. That intrigued me so I hooked up my "bright" or aka "hot" Yamaha to my "chocolatey" Marantz and the results are surprisingly delicious! The cool chocolatey mids of the Marantz are a perfect contrast to the dash of heat I get from the hot treble of the Yamaha.
That sounds like great “synergy “ to me.;)
 
J

JCanada

Audioholic
OK, my Sony TA-E9000ES Pre-Pro receives: analog stereo from Tuner, Turntable, Compact Cassette Recorder, DVD Player, Universal Player, and DAT Recorders, as well as, digital stereo from CD Player, DAT Recorders, TV or PC via OPPO 205 usb B, External Sound Card, or Airport Express. The Pre-Pro feeds a 5 channel Sony TA-N9000ES Power Amp.

My Sony TA-P9000ES Multi-channel Preamplifier receives 5.1 analog form OPPO 205 via Thumb Drive, Disc Drive,, usb Drive, Network, or HDMI connection to PC. The Preamplifier is feed to the Pre-Pro's bypass to Power Amp. So, two preamps running one power amp.
Cool setup. I wish I had picked up one of those OPPO CD players before they went extinct.
 
J

JCanada

Audioholic
Did you re-run AccuEQ? Or use an spl meter to level match the fronts with the other speakers/sub?
I do not have an SPL meter, maybe I should think about getting one. The only level matching I did was though the ONKYO menu. I tweaked the "level calibration", I fiddled a bit with the decibel level, and I tweaked the "speaker distance" feature. It made a difference, I think the sound is a bit better balanced overall.
 
J

JCanada

Audioholic
Indeed a good quality recording will shine thru on multiple types of media/bitrate. The provenance for a recording can be hard to ascertain too, so hard to know if you are indeed listening to the same mix/master.
I have listened to terrible recordings delivered in high quality. They still sound terrible. That Audiophile Channel Youtuber Hans Beekhuyzen had a video stressing the importance of the recording. His point was true. If the contents are garbage, the container and delivery method do not help. They are just expensive delivery methods for garbage.
 
J

JCanada

Audioholic
I have the bass turned up a bit on the Yamaha in my setup. I noticed the Yamaha "Pure Direct" feature cancels the bass control when you turn it on. Sounds ok, decent I guess.
 
J

JCanada

Audioholic
If you are comparing 2 channel power rating, I have no doubt the Onkyo has higher power output rating but the difference would make no difference, likely less than 0.1 dB.




I think if the difference you heard was real, and you did a properly set up comparison then you are capable of telling the slight difference between the two power amps, like 0.05 vs 0.02 % kind of difference.

Or, your comparison session was not done in a way that it could be a reliable way of comparing noticeable but minor audible differences.
You might be right. I fiddled a bit with the tone controls, and the "Pure Direct" mode on the Yamaha. Might have been just a different sound from the different features on the amp. Bottom line was I did not get that breakthrough sound I was imagining and fantasizing about. Just a perceived slight improvement. I am wondering what I would realistically have to spend to be WOW'd.
 
P

Paul Mohr

Audioholic Intern
Ok, you have said you don't like the sound you are getting. My first question would be compared to what? And the second would be what exactly are you hearing that you don't like? You did mention your speakers were a bit harsh, but in what way? Too much treble, distortion in the highs, mids are breaking up?

Is this a sound you just inherently don't like, or is compared to other systems you have heard with similar products or equipment that is better. And was it with the same speakers? And what kind of room was it in when you were listening, what were you listening to and how was it being played back? As in what was the source and medium being used. Did you hear those speakers before you bought them and they were fine, and then you got them home and you didn't like them?

There are things that can effect the sound and things you can try to trouble shoot/solve it. If your source material concerns you then I would try listening to the same music with different sources. Like from a CD or or a quality file from a USB drive or something. This would help you know if it was an issue with the streaming service or device. Something a lot people over look is speaker placement and set up. You could play with that. I have made some systems that didn't sound that great sound fantastic simply by playing with speaker positions. I would also take a hard look at your room. Room acoustics can have a huge impact on what you hear.

If you want to get really anal about it you could get REW and a good mic that way you would have a visual reference for what you are hearing.

Maybe you just don't like the sound of those speakers, it happens. I have heard speakers I didn't care for, even expensive ones. They didn't sound "bad", I just didn't care for the sound. There are brands I don't care for. Or possibly you might be more be more happy with a tube system, or something that emulates that. It isn't something I like, but lots of people do. And maybe your problems could be solved with some sort of EQ or DSP. Although that is harder to do with some equipment. And for some people a truly "flat" sounding system or speakers isn't what sounds good at all. It might be accurate, but that doesn't mean you will like it. Some people hear and perceive sound differently. It isn't something I like to be honest. Systems that measure flat to me tend to lack bass and have too much midrange. I have spent a lot of time on multiple occasions level matching systems in homes and cars so all the speakers were the same and and all the frequencies were matched. Looked great on paper and on the meter. Only to find out I didn't like the sound lol.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I have listened to terrible recordings delivered in high quality. They still sound terrible. That Audiophile Channel Youtuber Hans Beekhuyzen had a video stressing the importance of the recording. His point was true. If the contents are garbage, the container and delivery method do not help. They are just expensive delivery methods for garbage.
Yes, this has been so evident even a doofus like Hans gets it.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Field Marshall
Indeed a good quality recording will shine thru on multiple types of media/bitrate. The provenance for a recording can be hard to ascertain too, so hard to know if you are indeed listening to the same mix/master.
@lovinthehd
Amen. Good quality recordings shine through and make a difference. The difficulty with determining provenance is a real problem. For most of us making a purchase, its really tough to know exactly what you're getting until you can see the guts of it on a computer. By then, you're pregnant. You own it.

Nothing will save you with a poor quality recording and you don't even need salt and pepper for seasoning on a good one.
 

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