I noticed an improvement, wonder what you guys think.

Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Field Marshall
Can you explain "the level of the different amp with the rest of the speakers?". I did not quite understand the question.
Be careful, outside of PENG, and Pogre, which they have given Honest answers to you opening post on your thread. DSP “Optimizer” is Processing what you are hearing. Without knowing the “gain” between the pre-amp and amp of your S801, or the pre-amp L/R output of your RZ820 there really isn’t no tell what levels you really had set Exactly. Enjoy your system seems like you put some time and research buying your gear and speakers. That RZ820 Probably one of the best deals on a New AVR that comes with a nice 3 year warranty. Onkyo has good CS.

PS I was going to recommend a SPL meter, as a way of matching db level output from your speakers but that alone will only tell you so much. Don’t get to Caught Up with finding the Right “Spec” levels. You seem to be enjoying your setup.
Use your EQ, setting use the DSP Processing, you like the “Optimizer”? use it! tweet tell you can’t tweet no more. Than come back the next day and start All over again. Its your setup Enjoy!!
 
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Paul Mohr

Audioholic Intern
Maybe, some amps and receivers are just better than others. Surprised you had an issue with those particular products though. My guess would be it would sound just as good with the yamaha alone.

Some of the newer receivers don't have the greatest amps in them, regardless of what the specs say. Especially low end and mid priced products. I have two sony receivers, a denon and an older technics. All with fairly similar power ratings. The sony's didn't impress me much, they lack what they need for low end bass and very dynamic music and struggle to drive decent tower speakers. A powered sub is pretty much a must. But I guess they figure most people would be running them with small speakers and sub for basic home theater use. My denon is better and has no problem running my towers with no sub and having good bass. My older technics is better than all of them. Keep in mind none of them are really high end products, just your average stuff you would get at best buy. The technics was a higher end model, but not a flagship model or anything. The technics is from the early 2000's I think? Very well built, very heavy. Six channels including a built in sub channel. Not a sub pre amp, an actual amp channel. It was basically a 5.1 amp with switching and tuner built in. It has no dps or dolby decoding. You needed a separate box for that (which I also have). And it is rated to be stable down to 2 ohms. It probably weighs twice as much as my other receivers and cost more than they did even back when I bought it new. I quit using it because I needed HDMI switching and it didn't have it.

And I have friends that have actual decent pre amps and outboard amp set ups that I can't afford and they do indeed sound better there is no question. How much better is debatable if you are poor lol. Bottom line is some products are just better, regardless of what the specs say.

I have always been pretty impressed with onkyo though. I am surprised you were not happy with it.
 
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Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Field Marshall
Maybe, some amps and receivers are just better than others. Surprised you had an issue with those particular products though. My guess would be it would sound just as good with the yamaha alone.

Some of the newer receivers don't have the greatest amps in them, regardless of what the specs say. Especially low end and mid priced products. I have two sony receivers, a denon and an older technics. All with fairly similar power ratings. The sony's didn't impress me much, they lack what they need for low end bass and very dynamic music and struggle to drive decent tower speakers. A powered sub is pretty much a must. But I guess they figure most people would be running them with small speakers and sub for basic home theater use. My denon is better and has no problem running my towers with no sub and having good bass. My older technics is better than all of them. Keep in mind none of them are really high end products, just your average stuff you would get at best buy. The technics was a higher end model, but not a flagship model or anything. The technics is from the early 2000's I think? Very well built, very heavy. Six channels including a built in sub channel. Not a sub pre amp, and an actual amp channel. It was basically a 5.1 amp with switching and tuner built in. It has no dps or dolby decoding. You needed a separate box for that (which I also have). And it is rated to be stable down to 2 ohms. It probably weighs twice as much as my other receivers and cost more than they did even back when I bought it new. I quit using it because I needed HDMI switching and it didn't have it.

And I have friends that have actual decent pre amps and outboard amp set ups that I can't afford and they do indeed sounds better there is no question. How much better is debatable if you are poor lol. Bottom line is some products are just better, regardless of what the specs say.

I have always been pretty impressed with onkyo though. I am surprised you were not happy with it.
I had many Onkyo AVR’s, like all of them. I have used the “Optimizer” on the NR 646 or 656 don’t remember the model number exactly. That AVR is in my oldest grandsons room now. He’s 9 year’s old it’s being used as a Two channel setup with his PS4. No warranty left on it still going strong. Getting back to OP’s first post, what he has done l have done so many times with gear and speakers going back to the mid 70’s. It’s a lot of fun! Finding what sounds good is what this hobby is all about. I do recommend a good SPL meter to anyone if not just for the simple fact of checking levels between two Different Speaker maker’s when tweeking. For the reason not all speakers are Created Equal.
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Field Marshall
Maybe, some amps and receivers are just better than others. Surprised you had an issue with those particular products though. My guess would be it would sound just as good with the yamaha alone.

Some of the newer receivers don't have the greatest amps in them, regardless of what the specs say. Especially low end and mid priced products. I have two sony receivers, a denon and an older technics. All with fairly similar power ratings. The sony's didn't impress me much, they lack what they need for low end bass and very dynamic music and struggle to drive decent tower speakers. A powered sub is pretty much a must. But I guess they figure most people would be running them with small speakers and sub for basic home theater use. My denon is better and has no problem running my towers with no sub and having good bass. My older technics is better than all of them. Keep in mind none of them are really high end products, just your average stuff you would get at best buy. The technics was a higher end model, but not a flagship model or anything. The technics is from the early 2000's I think? Very well built, very heavy. Six channels including a built in sub channel. Not a sub pre amp, an actual amp channel. It was basically a 5.1 amp with switching and tuner built in. It has no dps or dolby decoding. You needed a separate box for that (which I also have). And it is rated to be stable down to 2 ohms. It probably weighs twice as much as my other receivers and cost more than they did even back when I bought it new. I quit using it because I needed HDMI switching and it didn't have it.

And I have friends that have actual decent pre amps and outboard amp set ups that I can't afford and they do indeed sound better there is no question. How much better is debatable if you are poor lol. Bottom line is some products are just better, regardless of what the specs say.

I have always been pretty impressed with onkyo though. I am surprised you were not happy with it.
Maybe one of your friends will Donate some of their audio gear to you? or just wait till one of your friends Croak over get his/her gear at Estate sale prices. My point is lots of used high-end gear out there. For Small change Leroys.:) Lots of Hobbyist on AH started out as “Small change LeRoys.Take a few of the older members on AH As example, ADTG, Loveinthehd,, PENG, Pogre even Gene the owner of AH website. They Big Money Grips now.:p:) They Change out audio gear all the time doesn’t mean what they have now gonna sound any better than what they had before. Just means they have Moe money for Tweeking audio gear in and out of their setups. All kinds of Different levels to this hobby. I say just find what your needs are and Enjoy the ride. :)
 
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Paul Mohr

Audioholic Intern
What I have now suits my needs quite well, especially in my current living situation. I have polk signature series speakers, a denon AVR, a LG C9 display and a harmony remote to control it all. I have listened to systems worth hundreds of thousands of dollars in show rooms and I never left thinking what I had sounded like garbage. Was it better, of course it was. But not that much better, at least to my ears anyway. I am willing to give up the slight sonic differences for the ease of use, installation and set up. Not to mention space. If I was overly concerned with it I would use the older technics I have and deal with its ease of use draw backs. And I would probably build my own speakers. I did build my sub woofer, which that technics powers. I did toy with idea of getting a more high end receiver instead when I got the C9 tv ( also toyed with the idea of getting another rifle lol). In the end I decided that right now I do more watching than I do listening so the better display made more sense.

At the present time I live with my 80 year old mother who has dementia. I am her full time care taker, guardian and conservator. She is quite the handful so I have little spare time and when I do loud or dedicated listening sessions are not an option. If I am not physically watching her I need to be able to hear what she is doing incase she falls down, tries to burn the house down or attempts to ruin one of the appliances lol. And everything I own is crammed in a small attic. She is getting to the point where she really needs to be in a home though. Maybe after I do that and get settled in an apartment or something I will work on a dedicated two channel system just for music. But for now I am happy if I can get 4 hours of sleep a night or watch a movie without having to pause it every 15 minutes.

And my current system is pretty new, so I am in no rush to run out and replace it all.
 
H

HT Tweeker

Enthusiast
Yamaha components have a better musical sound than Onkyo. Onkyo touts their power output but Yamaha is about musical accuracy, as they are one of the biggest professional music instrument companies in the world, and use better internal components.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Yamaha components have a better musical sound than Onkyo. Onkyo touts their power output but Yamaha is about musical accuracy, as they are one of the biggest professional music instrument companies in the world, and use better internal components.
How do you determine that?
 
H

HT Tweeker

Enthusiast
How do you determine that?
Listening to components from both manufacturers over the years... nothing wrong with Onkyo, but if you do an A/B with a Yamaha of equal value, the Yamaha’s have a cleaner sound with music.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
Listening to components from both manufacturers over the years... nothing wrong with Onkyo, but if you do an A/B with a Yamaha of equal value, the Yamaha’s have a cleaner sound with music.
But, when you do a bias controlled listening, outcome will be very different, most likely no difference. ;)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Listening to components from both manufacturers over the years... nothing wrong with Onkyo, but if you do an A/B with a Yamaha of equal value, the Yamaha’s have a cleaner sound with music.
So you did a DBT and were able to hear a difference? Were you able to see both units? Were they level matched using a dB meter? All processing was turned off? I've owned Yamaha, Denon and Marantz receivers over the years and most recently I added a separate amp for my front 3, a Monolith 7. Nothing stood out to me with any of them as for one being more or less musical than another except for which room correction was used. In that case the clear winner for me is Denon/Marantz with Audyssey XT32. YPAO doesn't do it for me. Other than that, I highly doubt I (or anyone else) would be able to pick one of them as sounding "more musical" in a proper dbt.

Doing a proper listening comparison is a real pita to set up and do correctly. Unless you put some effort into eliminating bias and making sure it's a level playing field all bets are off. That said, I believe you when you say you can hear it. Placebo and expectation bias are real, testable and absolutely a factor when it comes to audio.
 
H

HT Tweeker

Enthusiast
I’ve owned them all. When switching out a component like a receiver, that you’ve listened to for a couple years, and switch out with one that sounds inferior to the last one, or vice versa, you notice, Onkyo is that brand. Denon, Yamaha, and Marantz all have a more desirable musical sound to them because they’re better built, this is true for the quality of the actual build also.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I’ve owned them all. When switching out a component like a receiver, that you’ve listened to for a couple years, and switch out with one that sounds inferior to the last one, or vice versa, you notice, Onkyo is that brand. Denon, Yamaha, and Marantz all have a more desirable musical sound to them because they’re better built, this is true for the quality of the actual build also.
Others who have also owned many brands/models and made different claims. If you do a key word search you will find Yamaha's described often as bright, detailed, thin kind of sound, while Onkyo got mostly neutral, Marantz and Denon warm to neutral, HK warm etc., totally variable from person to person, unreliable nonsense.

None of those brands would tell you they designed their products for anything other than transparency, low distortions, quiet, dynamic, crisp, detailed, impactful, and yes musical too occasionally. How would Onkyo's design team come up with a way to design and build their stuff to not sound musical anyway, knowing people do use them for music?:D

I don't care about such subjective comments at all, but I do enjoy reading them for fun, its entertainment... So thanks.
 
H

HT Tweeker

Enthusiast
Onkyos are fine though, same with Kia’s and Burger King, there’s something for everyone
 
CajunLB

CajunLB

Full Audioholic
Others who have also owned many brands/models and made different claims. If you do a key word search you will find Yamaha's described often as bright, detailed, thin kind of sound, while Onkyo got mostly neutral, Marantz and Denon warm to neutral, HK warm etc., totally variable from person to person, unreliable nonsense.

None of those brands would tell you they designed their products for anything other than transparency, low distortions, quiet, dynamic, crisp, detailed, impactful, and yes musical too occasionally. How would Onkyo's design team come up with a way to design and build their stuff to not sound musical anyway, knowing people do use them for music?:D

I don't care about such subjective comments at all, but I do enjoy reading them for fun, its entertainment... So thanks.
I prefer to have more Chocolately mids. That’s why I chose a Denon.;)
 

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