I need a GREAT 2 channel power amp! What is great? Or two monoblocks...?

[saeyedoc]

Isn't the XLS2500 complete overkill? For $350 you could get the XLS 1500 which is "only" 300 wpc into 8 ohms, 525 into 4 ohms. Should be more than enough and comes in a smaller (less deep) chassis.

 

[mibson]

Thanks for the input

Weight of the amps is not a concern. I dont want amps with fans, Ive never had a fan that didnt get louder over time.

I know on this site many users swear by the pro amps, I do not. I was able to listen to my bros plinius vs a berrihger pro via a few blind tests and there was a big difference especially at low volumes and the tweeter sounds at high volumes. Keep in mind the two channel amp I want to buy is for movies and music, mostly music.

One poster said "are you sure its not to do with the pre/pro" in my Yamaha RX-V1,,,, No im not sure, that has been on my mind. But the bottom line is I am buying new more powerful amps and probably a Athem or Integra processor too. This older RX-V1 is only a temporary amp for me now…

Im leaning towards the XPA-2 but still not sure. My UPA-2 is a great amp for the price I paid. I do think the XPA-2 with my UPA-2 driving surrounds and a UPA-1 (OR similar) driving the center with a Integra processor is what Im thinking...Any comments? How about that new Emotiva Processor/pre, any comments there?

Thanks everyone for the input!

 

[mibson]

If the differences are that apparent, IMHO, either the Yamaha is defective, or the speaker presents a load that the Yamaha cannot properly drive.

I think you might have missed that the Yamaha sounds better, not the UPA-2

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think you might have missed that the Yamaha sounds better, not the UPA-2

You're correct, I missed that. The double negative in that sentence must have confused me.

 

[mibson]

I think the xpa-2 and putting my extra money into a new projector is the way to go...

 

[GranteedEV]

I know on this site many users swear by the pro amps, I do not. I was able to listen to my bros plinius vs a berrihger pro via a few blind tests and there was a big difference especially at low volumes and the tweeter sounds at high volumes. Keep in mind the two channel amp I want to buy is for movies and music, mostly music.

So what does that have to do with anything?

Do you see anyone suggesting a behringer?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't think buying a new amp or pre-pro is going to improve the sound quality. It may temporarily taper your upgrade urges.

 

[Gordonj]

These amps also have Peak Limiters that provide maximum power output while protecting your speakers, which is nice.

Just be careful with limiters in general. Limiters can induce a lot of distortion just due to the nature of what they do. If you hit limiters really hard they induce a distortion that will take out a lot of HF drivers. Since amps are stupid by nature, and it does not know how much your specific speaker can take, it has to rely on your ability to correctly set up the limiter. If your amp is sized too large for the speaker it is driving you can get into trouble even with a limiter. All a limiter does is act like a brick wall to the signal you are passing through it. It is not smart. Give me a limiter and 1 watt of power and I can take out your speakers, it's a fun trick to show people.

An easy way to size an amp with plenty of headroom, if the manufacture does not give a recommended size, is a simple formula ( there are several but they all come to about the same result).

2x(max program)x.80=amp size

Gordon

 

[mtrycrafts]

...a few blind tests ...

Tell us about them, please, how it was conducted, how leves were matched, how many trials and correct guesses, etc

 

[walter duque]

Just be careful with limiters in general. Limiters can induce a lot of distortion just due to the nature of what they do. If you hit limiters really hard they induce a distortion that will take out a lot of HF drivers. Since amps are stupid by nature, and it does not know how much your specific speaker can take, it has to rely on your ability to correctly set up the limiter. If your amp is sized too large for the speaker it is driving you can get into trouble even with a limiter. All a limiter does is act like a brick wall to the signal you are passing through it. It is not smart. Give me a limiter and 1 watt of power and I can take out your speakers, it's a fun trick to show people.

An easy way to size an amp with plenty of headroom, if the manufacture does not give a recommended size, is a simple formula ( there are several but they all come to about the same result).

2x(max program)x.80=amp size

Gordon

At times I passive bi-amp (I don't even know why because I can't tell the difference) my center cc-3wc which is rated at 220 watts with 350 watts 8 ohms, 500 watts 4 ohms, When I get a little crazy I manage to drive the amp into clipping mode. When the amp goes into clipping mode how much power is it putting out? The speakers don't blow. Can the tweeters handle full power?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just be careful with limiters in general. Limiters can induce a lot of distortion just due to the nature of what they do. If you hit limiters really hard they induce a distortion that will take out a lot of HF drivers. Since amps are stupid by nature, and it does not know how much your specific speaker can take, it has to rely on your ability to correctly set up the limiter. If your amp is sized too large for the speaker it is driving you can get into trouble even with a limiter. All a limiter does is act like a brick wall to the signal you are passing through it. It is not smart. Give me a limiter and 1 watt of power and I can take out your speakers, it's a fun trick to show people.

An easy way to size an amp with plenty of headroom, if the manufacture does not give a recommended size, is a simple formula ( there are several but they all come to about the same result).

2x(max program)x.80=amp size

Gordon

At times I passive bi-amp (I don't even know why because I can't tell the difference) my center cc-3wc which is rated at 220 watts with 350 watts 8 ohms, 500 watts 4 ohms, When I get a little crazy I manage to drive the amp into clipping mode. When the amp goes into clipping mode how much power is it putting out? The speakers don't blow. Can the tweeters handle full power?

I don't know, but I'm going to trust the electrical & mechanical engineers from Harman International with that Peak Limiter Speaker Protection circuit just the same.

I also think that if that Peak Limiter protection is detrimental, Harman would be getting some law suits.

 

[Davemcc]

now that my budget has increased I want something GREAT!

Im thinking somewhere around $1000 (for XPA-2) or even up to $4000 for something amazing.

For under a grand, get an older Bryston 4B. For something absolutely amazing, get a used but newer Bryston 4B SST.

Do this and I will live out my fantasies vicariously through you.

 

[Gordonj]

I don't know, but I'm going to trust the electrical & mechanical engineers from Harman International with that Peak Limiter Speaker Protection circuit just the same.

I also think that if that Peak Limiter protection is detrimental, Harman would be getting some law suits.

ADK it is not the peak limiter that is detrimental to the speaker health it is the misuse or lack of understanding of what a peak limiter does and how it is to be used. If your amp is oversized for the speaker it is driving, then it is oversized and you have to drive it carefully. No matter what the limiter can or can not do, it can not make up for more wattage then the speaker is capable of dealing with. In order for a peak limiter to operate properly it has to be set properly. It is not just a cya switch that fixes the problems associated with driving your speakers hard from an oversized or undersized amp.

People blow out drivers all the time with peak limiters inserted in the signal path, even if it was a Harman product.

Gordon

 

[Gordonj]

At times I passive bi-amp (I don't even know why because I can't tell the difference) my center cc-3wc which is rated at 220 watts with 350 watts 8 ohms, 500 watts 4 ohms, When I get a little crazy I manage to drive the amp into clipping mode. When the amp goes into clipping mode how much power is it putting out? The speakers don't blow. Can the tweeters handle full power?

Just looking at the information you gave, it seems as though your have a good range of power for your speaker.

That being said, the clipping is what you need to watch out for. When you clip a signal the device, in effect, is "clipping" the top portion of the signal wave off. That clipping induces distortion. The speaker can not reproduce that distortion so it starts having issues and you start taking out drivers.

Do not drive your system into clip.

If you want more volume, get a bigger system.

Clip lights BAD

That is a really simplistic explanation of the whole deal...

Gordon

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

ADK it is not the peak limiter that is detrimental to the speaker health it is the misuse or lack of understanding of what a peak limiter does and how it is to be used. If your amp is oversized for the speaker it is driving, then it is oversized and you have to drive it carefully. No matter what the limiter can or can not do, it can not make up for more wattage then the speaker is capable of dealing with. In order for a peak limiter to operate properly it has to be set properly. It is not just a cya switch that fixes the problems associated with driving your speakers hard from an oversized or undersized amp.

People blow out drivers all the time with peak limiters inserted in the signal path, even if it was a Harman product.

Gordon

Well, of course, no one is saying you should abuse your speakers because the amp has a Peak Limiter. It is there to help. If your speakers are rated for 110, you should NOT try to play 130dB. Period.

If your towers are rated for 110dB, and you play no louder than 90dB, you will be just fine even if you have a 1000wpc amp.

It is more dangerous to have less power (clipping) than to have more power in a passive speaker.

But in general, I think more people recommend using the Peak Limiter than not.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

It is more dangerous to have less power (clipping) than to have more power in a passive speaker.

...

Some interesting reading here:
New Article Debunking Some Speaker/Amp Myths

 

[mtrycrafts]

Just looking at the information you gave, it seems as though your have a good range of power for your speaker.

That being said, the clipping is what you need to watch out for. When you clip a signal the device, in effect, is "clipping" the top portion of the signal wave off. That clipping induces distortion. The speaker can not reproduce that distortion so it starts having issues and you start taking out drivers.

Do not drive your system into clip.

If you want more volume, get a bigger system.

Clip lights BAD

That is a really simplistic explanation of the whole deal...

Gordon

You shpould check this out as well
New Article Debunking Some Speaker/Amp Myths

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Some interesting reading here:
New Article Debunking Some Speaker/Amp Myths

So.....some think clipping due to inadequate power can damage the tweeters, and some don't think it can.

Everyone agrees that too much power is bad.

And everyone agrees that if you keep the volume down, you will be just fine.

Somehow, I don't think I want to give my Funk Audio 18.0 subs 2400watts of power.

 

[Gordonj]

So.....some think clipping due to inadequate power can damage the tweeters, and some don't think it can.

Everyone agrees that too much power is bad.

And everyone agrees that if you keep the volume down, you will be just fine.

Somehow, I don't think I want to give my Funk Audio 18.0 subs 2400watts of power.

But when you do give your subs that much power, please, please, please invite me over. That will be so much fun to watch!!!

Oh and nothing against anyone, but I don't think I would buy into that article fully, just sayin...

Gordon

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

But when you do give your subs that much power, please, please, please invite me over. That will be so much fun to watch!!!

Uh...uh...forget-it.....too late. I ain't going for-it. Homey don't play dat.

I don't trust that limiter so much all of the sudden.

775watts is all they're gittin!