I know I'm opening Pandora's box, but . . . (looking for audio advice)

Jonabrim

Jonabrim

Audioholic Intern
There’s a Q control knob so you can adjust a bit. I had to adjust that on my VTF2 mk5 pair to get it right so long listening sessions were good. It’s also important that the room has carpet or at least area rugs.

There’s a CD with low test frequencies and songs that HSU includes with each sub.
This is helpful. My living room is entirely carpeted and has quite a bit of furniture to help reduce reverb.

Have you compared your VTFs to the ULSs? If so, what differences/similarities did you note?
 
Jonabrim

Jonabrim

Audioholic Intern
I have heard of some people having a similar effect on their hearing after being exposed to lots of low bass. I don't know the cause. It is difficult to sustain hearing damage from low frequencies, so I wouldn't worry about lasting effects. However, I would give your ears a break from loud noises for awhile afterward if you encounter this sensation in the future. It isn't easy to cause hearing damage from low frequencies themselves, but the effects of very loud low frequencies may make it easier for damage to occur from exposure to loud noise at higher frequencies afterward. Audioholics recently had a good conversation about this in a livestream, but I don't remember if they mentioned that fact.

The sub does not need to be pointed at your listening position. It is mostly an omnidirectional sound emitter, so you will get hit by roughly the same SPLs regardless of where you aim it.

I don't think that the ULS is 'sharper' than the VTF15h. One thing that can easily account for that difference is the placement. Even a slightly different room placement can have a major effect on the sound character. Another explanation is that the VTF15h will still have more deep bass output, even in its sealed mode. Deep bass tends to sound 'heavier' or 'slower'. Reducing deep bass output can often make a sub sound subjectively more 'detailed' however that greater sense of detail is basically due to linear distortion, i.e., a lack of deep bass.
Thanks for the explanation about the hearing issue and for your expertise on the issue of "sharpness" or "detail." I'll keep that in mind as I make my final decision. So excited to be getting subs soon!

In his listening room, Dr. Hsu had a "cheap" used Onkyo AV Receiver and he thought it worked great. This has made me rethink things. I was set on getting a $3,000 Marantz SR8012 not because of the number of channels, but becaues I was led to believe that the componentry is will make a noticeable difference in sound. vs. a $500 receiver. What has been your experience?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
This is helpful. My living room is entirely carpeted and has quite a bit of furniture to help reduce reverb.

Have you compared your VTFs to the ULSs? If so, what differences/similarities did you note?
One more thing (also noted in VTF2 review by Shady) is the gain (volume) at least in VTF2.5, is sensitive. You turn it a little and it goes up quickly. :)

I haven’t ever considered the ULS15 because it’s sealed, but Shady reviewed it as well. I also haven’t heard it but my experience with sealed and ported subs is they don’t sound different. The ported subs have a lot more output is all. :)
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Pandora's box?? Oh my....She's open for ?? Ummm nevermind... It was a beer filled lunch today . :)
 
Jonabrim

Jonabrim

Audioholic Intern
One more thing (also noted in VTF2 review by Shady) is the gain (volume) at least in VTF2.5, is sensitive. You turn it a little and it goes up quickly. :)

I haven’t ever considered the ULS15 because it’s sealed, but Shady reviewed it as well. I also haven’t heard it but my experience with sealed and ported subs is they don’t sound different. The ported subs have a lot more output is all. :)
It could have been any number of things that made them sound a bit different (placement, one VTF vs. 2 ULS's, ported/sealed mode. But regardless, they both sounded fantastic! The nice thing about the VTF is that it's more of an end-game sub for any size room. Do you have one or two?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
It could have been any number of things that made them sound a bit different (placement, one VTF vs. 2 ULS's, ported/sealed mode. But regardless, they both sounded fantastic! The nice thing about the VTF is that it's more of an end-game sub for any size room. Do you have one or two?
Well in my situation, I got the green light for a new sub and originally planned for a single VTF15, but the room needed dual subs so since I couldn’t afford dual VTF15 or even dual VTF3, I went with dual VTF2 mk5. It’s probably a good thing too because they fit perfectly and the other half would not have been happy with the size of the VTF15 in the living room. (Probably would have had to move it to a different room). LOL :)

In my small Den and bedroom I have Rythmik subs. Ported 12 in Den. Sealed 12 in bedroom.
 
Jonabrim

Jonabrim

Audioholic Intern
Well in my situation, I got the green light for a new sub and originally planned for a single VTF15, but the room needed dual subs so since I couldn’t afford dual VTF15 or even dual VTF3, I went with dual VTF2 mk5. It’s probably a good thing too because they fit perfectly and the other half would not have been happy with the size of the VTF15 in the living room. (Probably would have had to move it to a different room). LOL :)

In my small Den and bedroom I have Rythmik subs. Ported 12 in Den. Sealed 12 in bedroom.
Ha ha. You gotta keep the Mrs. happy! I'm not married yet, so I suppose that now is the time to buy the big crazy ones and pray that she approves when I propose. :p

1) Why Rythmiks for your small den/bedroom vs. the ULSs? Aren't they similarly sized and priced?
2) Do the Rythmiks sound very different?
3) I'm looking at the VTF2 MK5s and I don't see any big reason to get the VTF15H over it. Both dig similarly deep, but the VTF15H is twice the price. Any thoughts here?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Ha ha. You gotta keep the Mrs. happy! I'm not married yet, so I suppose that now is the time to buy the big crazy ones and pray that she approves when I propose. :p

1) Why Rythmiks for your small den/bedroom vs. the ULSs? Aren't they similarly sized and priced?
2) Do the Rythmiks sound very different?
3) I'm looking at the VTF2 MK5s and I don't see any big reason to get the VTF15H over it. Both dig similarly deep, but the VTF15H is twice the price. Any thoughts here?
Oh the HSU are a better value than the Rythmik subs. I bought the Rythmik gear in 2017 and the HSU gear in 2018. The finish on VTF2 mk5 is a vinyl black not a oak veneer black or piano black. That accounts for some of the savings. I believe parts source from China and assembly is in USA. HSU in California and Rythmik in Texas.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Thanks for the explanation about the hearing issue and for your expertise on the issue of "sharpness" or "detail." I'll keep that in mind as I make my final decision. So excited to be getting subs soon!

In his listening room, Dr. Hsu had a "cheap" used Onkyo AV Receiver and he thought it worked great. This has made me rethink things. I was set on getting a $3,000 Marantz SR8012 not because of the number of channels, but becaues I was led to believe that the componentry is will make a noticeable difference in sound. vs. a $500 receiver. What has been your experience?
The amplification section can be a difference between the cheap AVRs and pricey ones. It depends on how loud you drive the system, and, to a lesser extent, the impedance load of the speakers. The more expensive AVRs will have more headroom before you start running into distortion. They will also accommodate lower impedance speakers. If you are listening in a small or moderate sized room and don't listen loudly, there isn't a reason to get a beefy amp. It depends on your listening habits. If you want to play it safe, get an AVR that has pre-outs, and if the onboard amplifier doesn't have enough headroom for you, just add outboard amps.

I know the Onkyo you are talking about. Hsu brings that one to audio shows and uses lamp cord to connect the speakers at these shows. Many other exhibits at these shows will use speaker cable that cost as much as Hsu's entire setup. Some of their amps run into six-figures. But his setup still keeps up with the other exhibits and in many cases surpasses them, and obviously he is making a point by doing this (I would say he is trolling them); you don't need to spend a fortune to get a great sound.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
@shadyJ @William Lemmerhirt



The low end extension on the VTFs was more effortless because of the size, but the ULSs were no slouches! With two it seems that I can keep the volume levels down and avoid any compression issues.
The low end extension is due to the low bass efficiency of a ported box, and size does come along with that (and they can get a lot larger, too!). Two not only helps out with a few more dB (usually only 2-4 dB typically, tho) and each running more efficiently but also helps with smoothing response thru the room.
 
B

BriReeves629

Audioholic
Thanks for the explanation about the hearing issue and for your expertise on the issue of "sharpness" or "detail." I'll keep that in mind as I make my final decision. So excited to be getting subs soon!

In his listening room, Dr. Hsu had a "cheap" used Onkyo AV Receiver and he thought it worked great. This has made me rethink things. I was set on getting a $3,000 Marantz SR8012 not because of the number of channels, but becaues I was led to believe that the componentry is will make a noticeable difference in sound. vs. a $500 receiver. What has been your experience?
I’ve had my AVR for 3 years now. I bought it new for $2700. You can buy it now new on amazon for $1400. When a new model comes out, the older ones depreciate pretty fast and considering the changes are fairly slight, I won’t spend as much on an AVR next time around.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I’ve had my AVR for 3 years now. I bought it new for $2700. You can buy it now new on amazon for $1400. When a new model comes out, the older ones depreciate pretty fast and considering the changes are fairly slight, I won’t spend as much on an AVR next time around.
Yup, best way to get value unless you absolutely need the latest and greatest "features"
 
Jonabrim

Jonabrim

Audioholic Intern
Yup, best way to get value unless you absolutely need the latest and greatest "features"
I really appreciate your feedback. My original thought was to get a $3000 Marantz SR8012 because I can get it at at half price through a connection. But the only reason I was thinking of getting it was because the internal componentry is supposed to be better for sound (vs. needing it for a big 11 channel system).

I know there are strong opinions on both sides, but I'm starting to lean toward just getting a $500 used receiver because I don't need a ton of power per channel and I'm not sure that I will notice a huge difference in sound quality between the flagship models and the regular ones. Am I wrong?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
How about something mid tier? You can find some good discounts for brand new, but maybe a couple models back. Denon 35/3600 pops to mind, SR6012 maybe (if the price is right)?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I really appreciate your feedback. My original thought was to get a $3000 Marantz SR8012 because I can get it at at half price through a connection. But the only reason I was thinking of getting it was because the internal componentry is supposed to be better for sound (vs. needing it for a big 11 channel system).

I know there are strong opinions on both sides, but I'm starting to lean toward just getting a $500 used receiver because I don't need a ton of power per channel and I'm not sure that I will notice a huge difference in sound quality between the flagship models and the regular ones. Am I wrong?
Not my general experience with avrs, altho I do tend to buy an avr with a good feature set and relatively good amp section (but with pre-outs for flexibility) and that usually starts with the mid range offerings. I have a lower end 6.1 Sony pre-hdmi avr that sounds just fine, though, it doesn't have a room eq type program nor pre-outs. Not much for dsp compared to some and not even graphic eq. It's still in use, altho it's in a spare bedroom setup (and was what I originally got it for). I also have a flagship Denon, a mid tier Onkyo and another Denon that's a few notches down from flagship. I just don't worry about the "sound quality" as its very good on all of them. I upgrade when I need something in particular; one of them I bought used for $200 from another member (originally retailed for $1600)....that one I needed to replace my workshop avr when a Pioneer avr crapped out on me (just after warranty). The really good deals on flagships can be had with a bit of patience or buying a refurb...and while the 8012 is a great avr I wouldn't get one just for the supposed qualities for sound quality they market.

OTOH that is an excellent deal on an 8012 currently, even the refurb is still $2k! It is a very nice avr with a great feature set no matter how you look at it and am sure would bring a smile to your face....
 
Kingnoob

Kingnoob

Audioholic Chief
@shadyJ @William Lemmerhirt

I visited Hsu Research last week and had a great experience listening to their subs! It's nice to have finally experienced what people are talking about when they mention musicality, nodes, headroom, when it comes to subs. I only understood in theory before because I've never owned subs.

All of the subs sounded great to me. I don't think I can go wrong between either then ULS-15 MK2 or the VTF-15H. The biggest issue is that the VTF-15H is huge! I didn't realize how big it is until I saw it. You can't casually fit a sub of that size into a room. The only way I see it working is if I put it in a corner and hide it behind my La-Z-Boy. Would you say that this would be a possibility because low waves travel better? Or should a sub be pointed directly at my listening area?

I'm no expert, but to me the sealed ULS's did sound slightly more sharp or crisp, if that makes sense. In sealed mode the VTF came close, but it wasn't quite the same.

The low end extension on the VTFs was more effortless because of the size, but the ULSs were no slouches! With two it seems that I can keep the volume levels down and avoid any compression issues.

I have another question for you both. While I was listening to the subs, my hearing went all wonky. It's like someone stuffed cotton balls in my ears and for 45 minutes to an hour afterward I couldn't hear right. Have either of you ever experienced this or heard of it?
I have a 5 cubic foot diy 15” sub in a 12 x 12 bedroom that has almost no space left . So you can fit it in the room but man it will rattle the walls .
Do you live near hsu plant ? Awesome


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
H

hoss58

Audiophyte
I have a question that i can't get a definitive answer to. My Yamaha RX-777 stereo receiver has an impedance switch 4/8 or 6/12... I want to use the setting that doesn't limit the power just to get a 4 ohm rating. I have it on 6/12 ohm now because that seems like the higher impedance, but at the same time the 4/8 ohm setting seems right to me also.I don't know , I am torn, I am using 2 sets of 8 ohm speakers.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I have a question that i can't get a definitive answer to. My Yamaha RX-777 stereo receiver has an impedance switch 4/8 or 6/12... I want to use the setting that doesn't limit the power just to get a 4 ohm rating. I have it on 6/12 ohm now because that seems like the higher impedance, but at the same time the 4/8 ohm setting seems right to me also.I don't know , I am torn, I am using 2 sets of 8 ohm speakers.
Try this https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1
 

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