I have a Yamaha rx-v667 receiver, do i need a external amp?

jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
No problem Peng. I want to hear your honest opinion. I just put my order on hold so it's ok. I checked out the XPA-3, and that was something that interested me. As, my front mains and center are all Focal. However, my center channel is rated at (Recommended amplifier power 25 - 120W)

My front mains are rated at (Recommended amplifier power 25 - 150W)

The powerload from the XPA-3 wouldn't be too much for those speakers, especially the center?

The XPA-3 is rated at 300 watts RMS @ 4 ohm / 200 watts RMS @ 8 ohm

My yamaha receiver is rated at 90w X 7 @ 8ohms

The price point of the UPA-2 is definitely nicer, but I can stretch my budget. Especially, if it will make a noticeable difference compared to the UPA-2.

Any thoughts? Peng, I'm guessing your honest opinion was to go for the XPA-3. Seeing the specs of my speakers and my yamaha receiver, would the XPA-3 still be your recommendation?
Just to note, your Yamaha is rated for 90 watts x 2 @ 8 ohms with a full-range signal. They don't tell you how much power it can put out to all the channels, but it will be less than that.

The XPA-3 is 200 watts x 3 @ 8 ohms, all channels driven.
 
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sidespin

Enthusiast
Hey Sidespin, one thing you could do to help determine your power requirements is to watch a movie with a dynamic soundtrack (like an action movie), at your normal listening volume. After it has been running for an hour or so, check the top of the receiver to see how hot it is.

If it's cool, or only slightly/moderately warm to touch, you at least aren't putting undue strain on the amp section of the receiver. That said, it doesn't mean that there is sufficient power to accurately reproduce all the intermittent dynamic peaks in the soundtrack.

However, if the top of the receiver is quite hot to touch, that will be a dead giveaway that the receiver's amp section is not up to the job and needs help.
I tried this today, and played xmen 2. my receiver is running hot. definitely, not warm.
 
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sidespin

Enthusiast
this hasn't sunk in until now, but the price difference is significant. the UPA-2 is at $299, whereas the XPA-3 is at $699. i'm going to have to think about this. :confused:
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I decided to add an amp to my RX-V667 just now - an old Denon POA-2400A that's been sitting in my closet for a long time. So far I've just been listening to music and I have noticed no difference. It certainly looks cool on the tv stand though :)



It's definitely not the most ideal placement (not enough room on top for adequate ventilation) plus I really don't like having my tv on top of my center speaker. I've been wanting the center to get out of the middle shelf and be on top for a long time now though. I just need to get a stand with a proper mount for the tv and more space on the shelves :)
 
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Chitown2477

Audioholic
I can understand the concern with the price difference. There is also more risk because the UPA-2 is not returnable due to the clearance pricing. However, I think you will be happy with the difference in sound. My AVR is has more WPC than yours and I still noticed a very appreciable difference. The UPA may be a rather entry level amp, but it is VERY solid.

Also if you ever plan on have a simple 2 channel setup in the future after upgrading your current system , all you need is decent AVR to process the sound.
 
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jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
The UPA-2 will deliver significantly more power to your mains than the Yamaha - enough to drive your speakers loudly and cleanly. Get it and forget about it.
 
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sidespin

Enthusiast
Chitown, thank you for sharing your experience with the UPA-2. Your response was a big factor in my decision. Having first-hand experience with the upgrade and noticing an enjoyable difference was what I was looking for. I think the XPA-3 would have been phenomenal, but my budget would be stretched quite far for that one. Price/value of the UPA-2 was the sticking point.

I'll post my experience once I receive it too.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
Chitown, thank you for sharing your experience with the UPA-2. Your response was a big factor in my decision. Having first-hand experience with the upgrade and noticing an enjoyable difference was what I was looking for. I think the XPA-3 would have been phenomenal, but my budget would be stretched quite far for that one. Price/value of the UPA-2 was the sticking point.

I'll post my experience once I receive it too.
I think you made a good choice given your current budget. As time goes on, you may have more funds available to upgrade to the XPA-3. Then that UPA-2 would still do a fine job for your surrounds.
Etc etc etc.......
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
sidespin
Just out of curiosity how much did you spend on your speakers (which are very nice) and how much on the Yamaha AVR?
To me the best investment in a system is the power amp. Buy the best and most powerful one you can afford. I bought this in 98 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_1/cinepro3k6.html and is still in my system, and most likely I'll have it many more years. Speakers and everything else in your system you're most likely going to change as time goes on, but a good power amp is a keeper and your best investment IMO.
 
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Chitown2477

Audioholic
Chitown, thank you for sharing your experience with the UPA-2. Your response was a big factor in my decision. Having first-hand experience with the upgrade and noticing an enjoyable difference was what I was looking for. I think the XPA-3 would have been phenomenal, but my budget would be stretched quite far for that one. Price/value of the UPA-2 was the sticking point.

I'll post my experience once I receive it too.
Look forward to hearing how it sounds.
 
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sidespin

Enthusiast
sidespin
Just out of curiosity how much did you spend on your speakers (which are very nice) and how much on the Yamaha AVR?
To me the best investment in a system is the power amp. Buy the best and most powerful one you can afford. I bought this in 98 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_5_1/cinepro3k6.html and is still in my system, and most likely I'll have it many more years. Speakers and everything else in your system you're most likely going to change as time goes on, but a good power amp is a keeper and your best investment IMO.
Very good question, as you can see my reluctance to shell out for the XPA-3. My Focal mains are listed at $1095. I paid $450. I just purchased my center from eBay at $340. The center list price is $495.

I paid $790 for my front 3. About half off of what should be $1600. The center was an almost impulse buy.
 
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sidespin

Enthusiast
My yamaha amp i got last year at a steal, when it just came out. i went to PC Richard and Son and they had a price tag on it for $279. It was a mistake. I inquired about this and they said they would only be able to honor the price by saying it was an open box item. the guy pulled out a brand new box to show me, opened it with a knife, and... "Open Box". I told him if that was the price of the receiver, i'm taking it. I took it home. List price was $549 or 599.

Also, seeing that the XPA-3 had been on sale previously for $529 and even $629, I couldn't pay full price ($699) for it, knowing that they may drop their price later, ie - Black Friday or such. If the XPA-3 was on sale, I think I may have been much more willing.

this is the link. 1 year ago.

http://archive.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=2298593
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think you made a good choice given your current budget. As time goes on, you may have more funds available to upgrade to the XPA-3. Then that UPA-2 would still do a fine job for your surrounds.
Etc etc etc.......
That made sense and I fully agree with the concept. However, I find the claims by some that the difference the UPA-2 made for them very surprising and perhaps it could be the case for their specfic conditions that I don't know about. I experienced no audible difference whether I had a 200/300W or more powerful amp connected to any of my previous mid range AVRs for most music and movie applications so I highly doubt a lesser amp could do much unless the OP listens to something like 5,7 ch stereo modes, or he has one of those specific conditions that I don't know about. The amps helped in terms of dynamic headrooms but you should only notice the difference during the moments when such dynamic headrooms are called for. I think the OP needs to hear from both side, and now he has, so let's hope he will in fact hear overall better sound quality he is aiming for with the UPA-2. $299 is an excellent price regardless.

One more point, don't expect the AVR will run cool with the added amp. The fact is, for most HT and music applications, the amp consumes very little power, it is the prepro section that consumes most of the heat on average and generating probably 90% of the heat. The power amp will consume high peak power (milli seconds) but on average it probably puts out less than 10W total and there fore consumes no more than say 20 to 25W.
 
gmichael

gmichael

Audioholic Spartan
That made sense and I fully agree with the concept. However, I find the claims by some that the difference the UPA-2 made for them very surprising and perhaps it could be the case for their specfic conditions that I don't know about. I experienced no audible difference whether I had a 200/300W or more powerful amp connected to any of my previous mid range AVRs for most music and movie applications so I highly doubt a lesser amp could do much unless the OP listens to something like 5,7 ch stereo modes, or he has one of those specific conditions that I don't know about. The amps helped in terms of dynamic headrooms but you should only notice the difference during the moments when such dynamic headrooms are called for. I think the OP needs to hear from both side, and now he has, so let's hope he will in fact hear overall better sound quality he is aiming for with the UPA-2. $299 is an excellent price regardless.

One more point, don't expect the AVR will run cool with the added amp. The fact is, for most HT and music applications, the amp consumes very little power, it is the prepro section that consumes most of the heat on average and generating probably 90% of the heat. The power amp will consume high peak power (milli seconds) but on average it probably puts out less than 10W total and there fore consumes no more than say 20 to 25W.
I think that how much difference someone will hear in one amp from another depends a lot on what speakers they have. A set of 4 ohm 83 db speakers cry out for more power. A set of 8 ohm 93 db speakers may not care if you have 50 or 500 watts. Quallity of watts is whole nuther thang. That debate is for people with deeper pockets than mine.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I think that how much difference someone will hear in one amp from another depends a lot on what speakers they have. A set of 4 ohm 83 db speakers cry out for more power. A set of 8 ohm 93 db speakers may not care if you have 50 or 500 watts. Quallity of watts is whole nuther thang. That debate is for people with deeper pockets than mine.
Again I agree with you. My speakers are so call 8 ohm nominal but 4 ohm minimum, similar to sidespin's but mine also have lower sensitivity and are 3 ways with 4 drivers. Yet I heard no difference whatsoever listening to 2 channel music with or without the amp. Mind you I am talking about Denon 3805 and 4308. They do have very decent two channel driven power, significantly more powerful than the UPA-2.

My concern is simply that the UPA-2 will not have much more output than the 667 in two channel driven applications. One has to see the fine prints, the UPA-2 has a 300 VA (vs the XPA-3's 850VA) transformer, assuming an optimistic average power factor of 0.8 and efficiency of 0.5 (being class AB), 300 VA=300X0.8=240W. 240W/2=120W per channel. This is simple math and it shows the UPA-2 cannot sustain any more than 120 to 150WX2. For short duration, yes transformers can be overloaded by 150% without being cooked, but in that case so can the 667. I also based my comments on lab measurements for the predecessors of the 667. Your point of moving to UPA-2 to the surround channels if and when Sidespin is ready to grab a XPA for his front 2 or 3 channels addressed my concern.
 
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sidespin

Enthusiast
X-Series RCA Cable (male to male)

http://emotiva.com/interconnects.shtm

Would this be the kind of cable that I use to connect my UPA-2 to my Yamaha receiver? I would need 2 of these RCA cables connecting from the preout on the AVR to the UPA-2?

These cables seem to be good. If someone can chime in and verify this is the correct cable, that would be great. I see all these different cables, and I'm not sure if this is the one I need.

Thanks!
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
X-Series RCA Cable (male to male)

http://emotiva.com/interconnects.shtm

Would this be the kind of cable that I use to connect my UPA-2 to my Yamaha receiver? I would need 2 of these RCA cables connecting from the preout on the AVR to the UPA-2?

These cables seem to be good. If someone can chime in and verify this is the correct cable, that would be great. I see all these different cables, and I'm not sure if this is the one I need.

Thanks!
That is correct, you need one pair of those for each channel.
 
jonnythan

jonnythan

Audioholic Ninja
X-Series RCA Cable (male to male)

http://emotiva.com/interconnects.shtm

Would this be the kind of cable that I use to connect my UPA-2 to my Yamaha receiver? I would need 2 of these RCA cables connecting from the preout on the AVR to the UPA-2?

These cables seem to be good. If someone can chime in and verify this is the correct cable, that would be great. I see all these different cables, and I'm not sure if this is the one I need.

Thanks!
Right cable, insane price.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=2869&seq=1&format=2
 
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