I guess I'll never be a "true" audiophile

[ski2xblack]

...to enjoy the music as much as possible.

Well, there you have it. If you enjoy listening to music more than shopping, chances are you will never be a true audiophile.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Enjoy the music, not the speakers. I have effectively two systems (see sig for details) Both are very much considered budget and both sound great, but I usually use headphones
Also at 55 you probably should get a hearing check, I'm a bit younger but I definitely have some hearing loss.

In my experience to tell good from great speakers - you'd have to listen to them side by side and still hard to notice the difference. Don't worry about audiophile nonsense. If you like your system, and how it sounds - that's it.

 

[noob0804]

As a somewhat related follow up. I had an Akai bookshelf system from the 90s with blown speaker surrounds and last year I bought the now discontinued Dayton MK402x bookshelf speakers to replace the originals. Then the Akai broke and I got rid of it and put the speakers away in a closet. The speakers are the smaller siblings to my MK442 towers. One day I was bored and just for kicks I connected them as B speakers to my Yamaha receiver to see how the sound was different between the towers and the bookshelves with matching drivers. Of course the towers sound fuller by themselves, tons more bass and better overall. Then I placed the bookshelves next to the towers but pointing outwards and turned on both A and B speakers... The sound blew me away and surprised me. I know there has to be a scientific explanation, but the bass is now deeper, the mids are what I can only describe as fatter, more realistic; I don't really hear much of a difference in the top end, and the soundstage is much wider. I have to admit it looks funny having the towers next to bookshelf speakers on stands, but again, I really like what these small speakers added to the sound. Has anyone done an experiment like this? I'd be really interested to hear an expert opinion. Thanks in advance.

 

[Teetertotter?]

I remember in 1965, when stationed in Okinawa with the USAF, I bought an Akai reel to reel portable unit. A fellow in the same barracks, down the hall, had a nice turntable. Remember Herb Albert and Ray Conniff, Elvis..etc? We would get together and do some recording. I had a shelf above my head, to store the recorder, with built in speakers, and listen to music to fall asleep. My roommate worked 3rd shift in Supply.

Today, with my equipment listed below, I listen to all kinds of internet music at bedtime. My Denon AVR works perfectly with, "Virtual," setting. Piano Music never sounded better along with Symphany. You can throw in pop and 60's, too. But.....I'm mostly watching DD movies. lol

 

[ski2xblack]

Has anyone done an experiment like this?

What you described above undoubtedly sounds different, certainly more full and rich with the extra driver's output added in, but it's also a recipe for a mess of comb filtering. Its sort of a Bose-ish thing you're hearing, with more sound bouncing around the room.

You know what? I think I was wrong upthread. There IS hope for you as a "true audiophile."

Since you're experimenting with both pairs of speakers and having some fun with it, I have a suggestion, a trick ALL the kewl audiophile kids were messing around with back in the 1970's when hifi was still sexy. You have everything you need to try it, and it's totally groovy, baby! Are you ready to take a walk on the wild side?

Ok, this is what you do. Do it with the amp off, of course. Step one: reverse the polarity (swap pos and neg speaker wire connections) on one (but only one) of the flanking bookshelf speakers. It doesn't matter if it's the left or right, but only do it on one of the bookshelves. Step 2: on the amp's 'B speaker' terminals feeding the bookshelves, remove the negative wires. Leave the positive wires connected to the amp. Step 3: take those loose negative wires and connect them to each other. You're done.

So you're probably wondering "what in the H-E-double-L did I just do? Will this cause my amp to blow up? WTAF??!?"

No, your amp won't blow up. What you did was create a crude Hafler array. And wtaf did that accomplish? It sends a L-minus-R 'difference' signal to the bookshelves, which is anything in the stereo signal that deviates from the center image in the mix. The further a sound is panned to the left or the right in the mix, the more it will be reproduced by the bookshelf speakers. The extracted signal to the bookshelves, composed of the ambient, phasey part of the mix, is indeed a monaural signal, which is why the bookshelves are wired out of phase relative to each other, for that spacey, disembodied non-localizable effect.

If you leave the bookshelves where they currently are, adjacent to the towers, you have essentially replicated the approach employed by Polk in their fancy-schmancy SDA jobs. People pay big bucks for those, but you get to experience the SDA trickery for free!

Alternately, you could move the bookshelf speakers to widely flank your mlp, or slightly behind it, which is what David Hafler had in mind with this craziness, for that proto-surround effect.

Only after doing all that will you be a true audiophile.

 

[Trebdp83]

 

[highfigh]

I'm not even sure this is remotely interesting for the Audioholic community, but here it goes:
In the past couple of years I put together a budget conscious 2.0 system for my home office (roughly 13'x14' with 9'-8" ceiling. I have doors in 2 corners and a wall with floor to ceiling windows.
The system is composed of a Yamaha S-202 basic stereo receiver, an Oppo 980H DVD player that I bought new in 2003 and I use for CDs, SACDs, and DVD-A, and a Wiim Pro for streaming Amazon Music up to ultra HD, FLAC files stored in my NAS, and also as a DAC for CDs and DVD-A since the Wiim doesn't support DSD. My speakers are Dayton MK442 (Audioholics 2019 budget speaker of the year), and for architectural and spousal reasons I can't accommodate a subwoofer in the room.
My question/issue is: I absolutely love the damn thing! So much that I don't see myself justifying upgrades for years to come. I'm incredibly happy with it, but I read so many reviews about much better equipment. Does that mean I'll never have "golden ears" or that I'll never be able to hear the difference between what I have at home and what is possible with a few thousand? I'm 55, which is relevant because by now I've lost some high frequency hearing. I listen to classical, rock, some jazz, and some experimental music. I have attended countless classical music concerts in my life since my childhood, I know how it's supposed to sound. The system can go more than loud enough for me, the bass goes very deep in the room, and I can't hear any sign of strain from the receiver or the speakers. Actually I can't tell the difference between high resolution and ultra high resolution music. I can, but barely, tell the difference between a high bitrate mp3 and a FLAC.
Did I peak in terms of my ability to discern sound quality? Should I forget about audio Nirvana and never come back to Audioholics? . This is a little tongue in cheek, but I'd love to hear some opinions. Thanks!

If you love the way it sounds, you're done looking. Constantly worrying about whether it's the best, good, good enough or "Will people laugh at me?" is no way to go through life and it's just neurosis. I don't now how anyone can ENJOY THE MUSIC if they're constantly thinking about the equipment.

Come for the conversations, stay for whatever you want.

 

[highfigh]

This is not a reply, more like an associated statement.
Last night I was listening to a recording of J.S. Bach organ music performed by Karl Richter somewhat loud and I heard for the first time an artifact coming from my speakers. It wasn't even during a loud deep bass passage, but I definitely heard a distracting vibration that I'm sure is not in the recording. I rewound the passage and there it was again. I was streaming an HD Deutsche Grammophon recording from Amazon music plus, and my streamer is connected via an Ethernet cable, so it's a high quality recording, I'm not asking for solutions, just sad.
It didn't occur to me to write down the track name, number, and time. It's a very long recording originally in several CDs, so it'll be impossible to find the passage again.
All this to say that I'm not tempted to upgrade speakers just yet, I'll just live with this artifact if I ever encounter something like it again.

Pipe organ bass pedals are as good a test as you can give to an audio system- if the notes aren't rattling your polyps, they can cause things to vibrate, whether in the speakers or the room and then, a system without a subwoofer can experience modulation in the driver(s) that reproduce the lowest notes AND midbass/midrange. If someone were to remove the lowest frequencies from the main speakers and let the sub(s) handle that, the rest of the system can relax and have a cup of coffee. I heard this in my system when I played some music from the large pipe organ in Atlantic City.

 

[Happy Joe]

If you like it listen to it until age makes it, or you fall apart...
This EPI 100 only took my abuse for 50 years, or so... The tweeter fell to pieces in my hand on grill removal...
Debating on whether to resurrect it or not...

...Wish they still made these (I can still get parts or a custom built one...)

Enjoy!

 

[noob0804]

What you described above undoubtedly sounds different, certainly more full and rich with the extra driver's output added in, but it's also a recipe for a mess of comb filtering. Its sort of a Bose-ish thing you're hearing, with more sound bouncing around the room.

You know what? I think I was wrong upthread. There IS hope for you as a "true audiophile."

Since you're experimenting with both pairs of speakers and having some fun with it, I have a suggestion, a trick ALL the kewl audiophile kids were messing around with back in the 1970's when hifi was still sexy. You have everything you need to try it, and it's totally groovy, baby! Are you ready to take a walk on the wild side?

Ok, this is what you do. Do it with the amp off, of course. Step one: reverse the polarity (swap pos and neg speaker wire connections) on one (but only one) of the flanking bookshelf speakers. It doesn't matter if it's the left or right, but only do it on one of the bookshelves. Step 2: on the amp's 'B speaker' terminals feeding the bookshelves, remove the negative wires. Leave the positive wires connected to the amp. Step 3: take those loose negative wires and connect them to each other. You're done.

So you're probably wondering "what in the H-E-double-L did I just do? Will this cause my amp to blow up? WTAF??!?"

No, your amp won't blow up. What you did was create a crude Hafler array. And wtaf did that accomplish? It sends a L-minus-R 'difference' signal to the bookshelves, which is anything in the stereo signal that deviates from the center image in the mix. The further a sound is panned to the left or the right in the mix, the more it will be reproduced by the bookshelf speakers. The extracted signal to the bookshelves, composed of the ambient, phasey part of the mix, is indeed a monaural signal, which is why the bookshelves are wired out of phase relative to each other, for that spacey, disembodied non-localizable effect.

If you leave the bookshelves where they currently are, adjacent to the towers, you have essentially replicated the approach employed by Polk in their fancy-schmancy SDA jobs. People pay big bucks for those, but you get to experience the SDA trickery for free!

Alternately, you could move the bookshelf speakers to widely flank your mlp, or slightly behind it, which is what David Hafler had in mind with this craziness, for that proto-surround effect.

Only after doing all that will you be a true audiophile.

Are you really not joking? I'm not sure I want to try that.