Hurricane rating system

[Swerd]

No here would not be. Dome structures are highly problematic acoustically. The Italians festooned there domed cathedrals with huge tapestries centuries ago, to tame the acoustics. The RAH is of course domed, and Elgar famously said of it: - it is the only place in London where I can here my music twice in an evening!

You're right, a circular dome would be an acoustic nightmare.

I was (poorly) remembering a smaller auditorium that superficially resembles modern geodesic structures in appearance. Its the auditorium in the National Academy of Sciences building in Washington, DC. The outside of the building is typical Washington neo-classical, but the auditorium inside is surprisingly different looking.

It was designed for conferences and the speakers can be easily heard without microphones. It's fabulous for smaller musical groups up to about 20 or so musicians, but is too small for a symphony orchestra. I've never heard another auditorium with such good sounding acoustics.

 

[Swerd]

That's a bar joist. Any open ceiling best buy / bed bath and beyond or the like has those, just not at an angle.

I did think it looked like the ceiling of Home Depot.

 

[Swerd]

To return to Kurt's original question, I saw this in the Post.

Hurricane Florence, ‘just a Cat 1,’ reveals flaw with Saffir-Simpson scale https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/hurricane-florence-just-a-cat-1-reveals-flaw-with-saffir-simpson-scale/2018/09/19/ac6e623a-ba8f-11e8-bdc0-90f81cc58c5d_story.html?utm_term=.ddfc8055514c

 

[Swerd]

The roof as I said is the week link of the ICF. That is why I think the steel octet truss should be considered. Anyhow I'm beefing up the truss strength and fastening it down to the walls with hurricane clips. That is the best I can think of now. The other thing that is being explored is building houses without eves. It is well known that the eves first catch the wind, the roof lets go and then the house explodes into splinters.

The house built without wood, ICF and a steel truss roof, sounds like a good idea. Don’t forget built-in solar electric panels and electric generators.

The bathrooms should be built with elder-friendly features, such as step-free shower entrances, and lots of grab bars, and non-slip floor tiles. All door hardware should be Arthritis Association-approved lever types. Have you considered an elevator?

But why stop there ? Construction should be:

• Fire-proof
• Flood-proof
• Hurricane-proof
• Earthquake-proof
• Avalanche-proof
• Drought-proof (water recycling)
• Rust-proof? With those steel trusses, would it be too much to ask for galvanized or stainless steel?
• What about FM reception? What will all that steel do?
• Termite-proof
• 17-year locust-proof
• Burglar-proof
• Hacker-proof Wifi network
• North Korean-proof
• Tax collector-proof
• Don’t forget Fool-proof
• Be sure to ignore any bids from concrete construction companies based in Genoa, Italy

Now for those 1000- and 10,000-year events:

• Godzilla-resistant
• Alien invader-resistant
• With advanced global warming, alligators will frequent the Minnesota lakes, year round. So an alligator-filled moat is not an unreasonable way to make your home zombie apocalypse-resistant. (Let’s be realistic about this – no code I know of calls for zombie-proof.) No need for machine gun towers, flame throwers, and claymore mines. A drawbridge entrance, however, would be a nice touch.

This is getting to look more and more like the Great Pyramid of Giza. Have you considered archeologist-resistant?

 

[Alex2507]

The house built without wood, ICF and a steel truss roof, sounds like a good idea. Don’t forget built-in solar electric panels and electric generators.

The bathrooms should be built with elder-friendly features, such as step-free shower entrances, and lots of grab bars, and non-slip floor tiles. All door hardware should be Arthritis Association-approved lever types. Have you considered an elevator?

But why stop there ? Construction should be:

• Fire-proof
• Flood-proof
• Hurricane-proof
• Earthquake-proof
• Avalanche-proof
• Drought-proof (water recycling)
• Rust-proof? With those steel trusses, would it be too much to ask for galvanized or stainless steel?
• What about FM reception? What will all that steel do?
• Termite-proof
• 17-year locust-proof
• Burglar-proof
• Hacker-proof Wifi network
• North Korean-proof
• Tax collector-proof
• Don’t forget Fool-proof
• Be sure to ignore any bids from concrete construction companies based in Genoa, Italy

Now for those 1000- and 10,000-year events:

• Godzilla-resistant
• Alien invader-resistant
• With advanced global warming, alligators will frequent the Minnesota lakes, year round. So an alligator-filled moat is not an unreasonable way to make your home zombie apocalypse-resistant. (Let’s be realistic about this – no code I know of calls for zombie-proof.) No need for machine gun towers, flame throwers, and claymore mines. A drawbridge entrance, however, would be a nice touch.

This is getting to look more and more like the Great Pyramid of Giza. Have you considered archeologist-resistant?

The commercial lever type passage sets with a 2-3/4" backsets are in excess of $100 a piece and a solid core veneered fire rated door starts up around $500. The weather strip for a door like that is $100. Only commercial construction uses fire rated wood for in-wall studs, blocking, IT rooms etc (pretty sure about that).

One of the things the SFBC is good about is inspections. You're not getting inspections out of order or before all the work is done. Anywhere else I have worked, the inspector was an afterthought or just a word supervision talked about sometimes. Down there, that inspector was like the second coming and they look at everything! I hated it. They come to count the screws you put in drywall. Bastards.

EDIT: Go with a hip roof. Gable ends don't do well in wind.

 

[Swerd]

I was kidding TLSGuy in my post above. I hope that was apparent and that he didn't take (too much) offense.

Your commercial-grade construction experience should be useful to temper his perfectionism. His ideas are often very good, but in practice they can be quite expensive. Sometimes, it can be very attractive to have expensive or elaborate materials and construction, but later when repairs or maintenance are needed, these same features can be obstacles. I knew a neighbor who had the most elaborate and expensive furnace and air conditioner available. He gladly paid for it even though the HVAC company that installed it recommended against it. Later when he needed repairs, qualified repairmen and parts were difficult to find.

The commercial lever type passage sets with a 2-3/4" backsets are in excess of $100 a piece and a solid core veneered fire rated door starts up around $500.

There are plenty of lever type lock sets made for home use. They cost less than the commercial ones and were easy to install in my existing doors. I avoided buying the el cheapo lock sets (such as Kwikset) sold at Lowes.

The weather strip for a door like that is $100.

I wish I had weather strip like that for my 3 doors. They were all cheap builders' grade 25 years ago, never did insulate that well, and their fit has degraded over time. I've replace the weather stripping before, and I now realize I suck at that job. Maybe I should start looking to replace them. I wouldn't try to do that myself – want the job? If I remember, the guys who installed my replacement windows (remember Ultratite?) also do doors.

EDIT: Go with a hip roof. Gable ends don't do well in wind.

From what little I know, hurricane straps are cheap to buy and easy to install during construction. They can prevent high winds from lifting nailed-on wooden trusses off of the top of wall studs. If TLSGuy does get a steel-trussed roof and mounts it on those ICF walls, won't they need nuts & bolts or other steel fasteners to attach them? Why add hurricane straps when they are meant to reinforce nailed-on wooden truss roofs?

 

[TLS Guy]

Swerd, the house will be ICF with a wood roof. The steel truss will be for others. However there is interest as wood is getting problematic. Hopefully the ICF bids will not be way high. As far as I can tell it should add 1% at best, may even now be cheaper. Hurricane clips are now actually advised for this area, though not yet code. They are cheap, so no big deal.

Already here the master bath is ADA, with shower on grade, and it has a 15 KW generator I installed 20 years ago.

Part of the reason for the new build is nursing home avoidance. When I moved to this home permanently in 2007, I was recovering from a very nearly fatal illness. The recovery was long. I new what lay ahead as I remodeled this place. Hence a lot of the design features of this home. Last years sudden and rapidly progressive hip problem was a wake up call. I'm in good shape now.

Anyhow, the new home is two story on grade, no steps in, on any level. Master bath ADA shower on grade, and walk in tub. I am planning another generator. I'm so glad I did here. My wife does not want to be without one.
There are stairs up the the second level and these are the only steps. However we are putting in an elevator shaft so that we can easily install an elevator should we need it.

Nursing homes are expensive, and there are far too many horror stories of abuse even up here in Minnesota Nice land.

So yes, there will be a design that deals with nursing home avoidance. The top floor could easily be used as a careers quarters. There are two nice bedrooms, a nice sitting area and kitchenette. That is also where this studio will move to.

One level living would also be entirely practical and comfortable on the first level.

I look at this build as not just a home but also to have the potential to greatly make any future care costs reasonable and practical. If I live that long I will be 80 in eight years. By the time we move in it will be less than 8 years. My wife is only a year behind me. As I always say and have said, none of us lives for ever and everybody gets something. If that is your mantra, when trouble comes to your doorstep you will not be surprised and hopefully somewhat prepared to face what comes with grace and acceptance.

 

[Alex2507]

I was kidding TLSGuy in my post above. I hope that was apparent and that he didn't take (too much) offense.

Your commercial-grade construction experience should be useful to temper his perfectionism. His ideas are often very good, but in practice they can be quite expensive. Sometimes, it can be very attractive to have expensive or elaborate materials and construction, but later when repairs or maintenance are needed, these same features can be obstacles. I knew a neighbor who had the most elaborate and expensive furnace and air conditioner available. He gladly paid for it even though the HVAC company that installed it recommended against it. Later when he needed repairs, qualified repairmen and parts were difficult to find.
There are plenty of lever type lock sets made for home use. They cost less than the commercial ones and were easy to install in my existing doors. I avoided buying the el cheapo lock sets (such as Kwikset) sold at Lowes.
I wish I had weather strip like that for my 3 doors. They were all cheap builders' grade 25 years ago, never did insulate that well, and their fit has degraded over time. I've replace the weather stripping before, and I now realize I suck at that job. Maybe I should start looking to replace them. I wouldn't try to do that myself – want the job? If I remember, the guys who installed my replacement windows (remember Ultratite?) also do doors.
From what little I know, hurricane straps are cheap to buy and easy to install during construction. They can prevent high winds from lifting nailed-on wooden trusses off of the top of wall studs. If TLSGuy does get a steel-trussed roof and mounts it on those ICF walls, won't they need nuts & bolts or other steel fasteners to attach them? Why add hurricane straps when they are meant to reinforce nailed-on wooden truss roofs?

Cost tempers all. Your neighbor won't be buying another fancy heater if this one gives him enough trouble. The more expensive the mistake, the better the lesson.

You only ever put in the nice locksets once. There is no round II. And they work right the whole time. Unless you use a drywall hatchet as a skeleton key.

Lowes is for ladies. You need a door supplier for that fancy weather strip. I'll put it in if I can stay at Dan's.

Lots of old hip roof homes in Coral Gables survived Hurricane Andrew back in '92 much better than homes with hurricane straps and gable ends.

, none of us lives for ever and everybody gets something. If that is your mantra, when trouble comes to your doorstep you will not be surprised and hopefully somewhat prepared to face what comes with grace and acceptance.

I'm gonna have to try living forever because that grace and acceptance thing, I don't see that being a good fit for me.

 

[Swerd]

Part of the reason for the new build is nursing home avoidance. When I moved to this home permanently in 2007, I was recovering from a very nearly fatal illness. The recovery was long. I new what lay ahead as I remodeled this place. Hence a lot of the design features of this home. Last years sudden and rapidly progressive hip problem was a wake up call. I'm in good shape now.

Anyhow, the new home is two story on grade, no steps in, on any level. Master bath ADA shower on grade, and walk in tub. I am planning another generator. I'm so glad I did here. My wife does not want to be without one.
There are stairs up the the second level and these are the only steps. However we are putting in an elevator shaft so that we can easily install an elevator should we need it.

Nursing homes are expensive, and there are far too many horror stories of abuse even up here in Minnesota Nice land.

So yes, there will be a design that deals with nursing home avoidance. The top floor could easily be used as a careers quarters. There are two nice bedrooms, a nice sitting area and kitchenette. That is also where this studio will move to.

One level living would also be entirely practical and comfortable on the first level.

I look at this build as not just a home but also to have the potential to greatly make any future care costs reasonable and practical. If I live that long I will be 80 in eight years. By the time we move in it will be less than 8 years. My wife is only a year behind me. As I always say and have said, none of us lives for ever and everybody gets something. If that is your mantra, when trouble comes to your doorstep you will not be surprised and hopefully somewhat prepared to face what comes with grace and acceptance.

After my experience with my late mother, I couldn't agree more with what you're doing. She died at age 94 in her 3-story town house. No nursing home. About 20 years earlier she had electric chair lifts installed in the stair ways, and remodeled the bathrooms. Her idea was to do all that work before she needed it, and was too old get it done. All of that was well worth it.

Enough of that… what are your plans for a HT/music room?

 

[Swerd]

Lowes is for ladies. You need a door supplier for that fancy weather strip.

The company who did my windows is still around, Nova Installations. They did excellent work 4 years ago, and everything the owner recommended has remained good. I'll go see them again about doors. They'll do the job in one day, and haul away the old stuff. Can you say anything about the door mentioned on their web site? My only regret is loosing my solid wood front door. It's beautiful to look at (mahogany?), but doesn't close tight. Once I replace it with something weather tight, I'm pretty sure I'll forget all about it.

Lots of old hip roof homes in Coral Gables survived Hurricane Andrew back in '92 much better than homes with hurricane straps and gable ends.

My uncle lived in South Miami. His house lost its roof in Andrew. He & my aunt turned over their sofa and stayed under it during the storm. He probably wasn't far from the eye of that Cat 5 storm. The damage from Andrew resembled that of a tornado – a mile-wide tornado. Homestead Air Force Base was so badly wrecked, the USAF abandoned it instead of trying to rebuild it.

I don't clearly remember my uncle's roof, but the house was a rectangular one-level ranch house built on a flat concrete slab. It probably had a standard peak roof with gables on either end. He rebuilt it after waging battle with his insurance company.

 

[TLS Guy]

After my experience with my late mother, I couldn't agree more with what you're doing. She died at age 94 in her 3-story town house. No nursing home. About 20 years earlier she had electric chair lifts installed in the stair ways, and remodeled the bathrooms. Her idea was to do all that work before she needed it, and was too old get it done. All of that was well worth it.

Enough of that… what are your plans for a HT/music room?

This HT room here will be rebuilt pretty much as is. It really works and sounds so good, I just don't think I can best it. In the Cites because of large family and friends, I think there will be more bottoms in chairs to allow for.

So, the room will be a little wider and longer, than this one and accommodate three rows of three theater chairs, and so handle 9 rather then 5 in theater chairs. The system downstairs will move with some changes, such as a larger screen from Eagan.

The biggest deal is my wife wants "her" system on the main floor.

The problem is that she wants it to sound just as good but not see it! This system does really sound very good and she loves it. Last time Phil listened he felt compelled to order a $30,000 speaker system the next week! The speaker design is unusual and unique in many aspects. -3 db is 27 Hz and it does reproduce the LFE signal. Originally it had my own electronic crossovers for the cross from mids to the isobarik coupled cavity bass system. The speakers were built in 1989. However the design was perfect for mating to the crossover in the pre/pro. It makes a perfect seamless fourth order LR crossover. However WAF is not the best. So I have designed an ultimate in wall system. I really don't want to go into details until it is built installed and measured. I will say that the modelling is extremely promising. Power will be 300 watts RMS for the speaker system for each of the main speakers. All speakers for this 3.1 system will be in wall. The system is specifically designed for the characteristics of the bass management of receivers and Pre/pros. Particular care and attention has been given to the center which is the only 3 way. The mid range will cover the whole of the speech discrimination band. This as always is he most difficult speaker. It is a horizontal and not vertical design.

I have been travelling the dealers lately for the chairs, but got curious and did listening. I'm now more convinced than ever that there are serious problems caused by current approaches to bass management. None of the systems come close to delivering what we enjoy here, or even the Eagan system for that matter.

Anyhow there will be no more details until this new system has been thoroughly studied and listened to and tweaked. The main reason is that I would not want anyone to embark on what has the potential to turn out to be a dud system. That is always the risk of building your own designs.

 

[Alex2507]

. Last time Phil listened he felt compelled to order a $30,000 speaker system the next week!

Phil?

Can you say anything about the door mentioned on their web site?

The only familiar name is Anderson. They're a known quality but expensive. What I do know is that you want to prime and paint everything, all sides, with primer and 2 coats of paint. Our condo put in new doors a few years ago. Now they need to do it again because they didn't do it right the first time. I found that hacks get work through people who don't know anything about the work they contract out.

Anyways, primer on all 6 sides of the door and then 2 coats of color. I know the doors come primed but that's a thin @ss squirt.

 

[TLS Guy]

Phil?



The only familiar name is Anderson. They're a known quality but expensive. What I do know is that you want to prime and paint everything, all sides, with primer and 2 coats of paint. Our condo put in new doors a few years ago. Now they need to do it again because they didn't do it right the first time. I found that hacks get work through people who don't know anything about the work they contract out.

Anyways, primer on all 6 sides of the door and then 2 coats of color. I know the doors come primed but that's a thin @ss squirt.

Don't worry, I pretty sure I have a good crew put together. This is our third house build, plus we did a S330,000 remodel here. Also I watched my son's massive recent remodel, and took note of what works and what does not. The biggest nightmare we can not escape is arc fault breakers. We now have his place stuffed with caps and inductors, just to use things like his coffee pot, laser printer and more. Apparently a lot of home owners have quietly replaced these with standard breakers which is illegal. I hate to think what will happen when my power amp case powers up! The main contractor, is Norton Homes of Plymouth MN. Luckily I really like them. I'm stuck with them in any case, because they own the lot, and part of the deal is they build the house. Unless you want to build way out in the boonies that is what you will always have in the Twin Cities, unless it is a lot you would never want.
We have a lovely lot only a mile and a half from Eagan Town Center but does not look like it. We are 7 miles or less from all of our children. It is 12 miles to downtown St. Paul and 18 miles to downtown Minneapolis.

The outer suburbs with more plentiful and cheaper lots are now 30 to 40 miles from the city centers

 

[Swerd]

The only familiar name is Anderson. They're a known quality but expensive. What I do know is that you want to prime and paint everything, all sides, with primer and 2 coats of paint. Our condo put in new doors a few years ago. Now they need to do it again because they didn't do it right the first time. I found that hacks get work through people who don't know anything about the work they contract out.

Anyways, primer on all 6 sides of the door and then 2 coats of color. I know the doors come primed but that's a thin @ss squirt.

Thanks. I've got some learning to do before I act.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks. I've got some learning to do before I act.

As far as windows go, the two highest quality are Anderson and Marvin, both made here in Minnesota. Andersen have a huge factory at Stillwater on the banks of the St. Croix river.

Marvin are up in Warroad just due north of here on the Canadian border, just south of Minnesota's chimney. That is the North West Angle, which is a piece of Minnesota entirely within Canada on Lake of the Woods, due to an early mapping error. You have two borders to go through each way travelling up there.

Anyhow the Marvin's are a great family and treat their employees very well and share to profits with them generously in the good times. They are huge home down supporters. The family have had many great hockey players over the years.

I'm specking Marvin windows and used them here for the windows of our remodel and for the patio door replacement out of our Kitchen to the balcony. All excellent quality. They also made the windows for the home we built in Grand Forks in 1978.

In my time on the board of the Grand Forks Clinic, now Altru, I was responsible for the "hinterland" operations, and used to have to go up and visit there. Warroad is still in the Altru orbit and responsible for medical service there.

 

[Swerd]

As far as windows go, the two highest quality are Anderson and Marvin, both made here in Minnesota. Andersen have a huge factory at Stillwater on the banks of the St. Croix river.

I know something about replacement windows, having replaced 29 double-hung and 3 casement windows about 4 years ago. My old windows were cheap builder's grade (wood-frame, double-glazed, poorly installed) and were 21 years old at the time. I originally planned on wooden frame windows made by Anderson or Pella, but the local dealer quickly talked me out of those, even though he sold them. Wood frames are expensive, swell & shrink with the seasons, and require painting & repainting. Anderson does make fiberglass frame windows that don't swell & shrink, but they are still expensive. I was less familiar with Marvin, but they also seemed to be good, if less advertised in this area.

I eventually went with insulated vinyl, Ideal Ultratite. They come in factory-finish colors (never need paint!),and cost about half of what wood frame windows cost. I got double-glazed with an infrared reflecting layer called LowE glass that added about 10% to the cost. Four years later, I'm still happy with them.

It sounds like you're decided on Marvin windows. They're locally made, and they are probably supported by local builders and installers.

I would guess LowE glass might be standard. If not, I do recommend getting that. I find it makes a noticeable difference in both winter and summer.

In Minnesota, does triple-glazed glass make sense? In Maryland, it wasn't worth the extra cost.

 

[Drunkpenguin]

I love my vinyl windows. I replaced metal ones that were only a few years old and they were garbage. You couldnt even up them any more. The vinyl has held up really well so far. LowE glass does make a huge difference tho! When I was in the process of installing at one point I had 2 windows that are right next to eachother and had one replaced with the other one still the old window. So I could do a side by side comparison with the sun shining through. The difference in heat that came thru the new lowE was very significant.

 

[TLS Guy]

I know something about replacement windows, having replaced 29 double-hung and 3 casement windows about 4 years ago. My old windows were cheap builder's grade (wood-frame, double-glazed, poorly installed) and were 21 years old at the time. I originally planned on wooden frame windows made by Anderson or Pella, but the local dealer quickly talked me out of those, even though he sold them. Wood frames are expensive, swell & shrink with the seasons, and require painting & repainting. Anderson does make fiberglass frame windows that don't swell & shrink, but they are still expensive. I was less familiar with Marvin, but they also seemed to be good, if less advertised in this area.

I eventually went with insulated vinyl, Ideal Ultratite. They come in factory-finish colors (never need paint!),and cost about half of what wood frame windows cost. I got double-glazed with an infrared reflecting layer called LowE glass that added about 10% to the cost. Four years later, I'm still happy with them.

It sounds like you're decided on Marvin windows. They're locally made, and they are probably supported by local builders and installers.

I would guess LowE glass might be standard. If not, I do recommend getting that. I find it makes a noticeable difference in both winter and summer.

In Minnesota, does triple-glazed glass make sense? In Maryland, it wasn't worth the extra cost.

We are all triple glazed up here and have been for years. If not you would have ice on the inside of the windows most of the winter. Older homes have storm windows for the outer triple, but these have to be put up in the fall and taken down in the spring, which is a pain.

 

[Swerd]

Back to KEW's original question about revising the hurricane category rating system. This morning's Washing ton Post had this article:

AccuWeather Developed a Hurricane Category Scale, and it Worries Some Meteorologists

"On Thursday, the private weather company AccuWeather announced it was launching its own hurricane scale this year, 1 to 5, just like the Saffir-Simpson. Joel Myers, AccuWeather’s founder and chief executive, says the RealImpact Scale for Hurricanes, or RI, takes into account wind, flooding rain, storm surge and economic damage. He said he had seen the outcry for a better categorization system and that no one else stepped up…"​

 

[highfigh]

My only regret is loosing my solid wood front door. It's beautiful to look at (mahogany?), but doesn't close tight. Once I replace it with something weather tight, I'm pretty sure I'll forget all about it.

Your door can be routed to accept weatherstripping that seals better- call around and use google to find something that can be retro-fitted.