HT and 2 channel help. Best AVR for both.

P

pinball

Enthusiast
I wouldn't use the SR6010 with those ADS speakers, except for low volume listening, and near field.., not if the MC2002 or evne the Proceed Amp 3 is nearby.:D
Currently the ADS are only connected to the MC2002. The Proceed Amp 3 is connected to the L,C,R pre from the SR6010. The Martin Logan are normally connected to them.
 
P

pinball

Enthusiast
As I quoted many times, our highly respected Dr. Floyd Toole who said in his
Sound reproduction – art and science/opinions and facts youtube video:

(start at about 56:30)

Who said "...the only way we can get those consistent opinion out of you is to not let you know what you are listening to...do it blind....if you know what you are listening to, I don't care what you are thinking, it doesn't matter..."

He's only talking about comparison listening to loudspeakers to determine how they score in terms of how good they sound to a group of 350 people with "normal" hearing. It is widely accepted that it is generally easier to tell the difference between speakers so I don't think we need to debate whether Dr. Toole would have apply the same principle (DBT) for comparing amplifiers.

At about 53:07, he did briefly comment on electronics, citing they nobody would design an electronic component that didn't have a FR that's flat...., flat, smooth..., it is not difficult to do, and everybody does it....

He is not the only audio expert who have made similar points. So with due respect, you heard what you heard, warm, cool, whatever, but it is your subjective experience.

You have nice amps now that were designed to be transparent, so it should match any well designed speakers. The warm sounding amp to match bright sounding speakers are one of the biggest audio myth, it is not just my opinion, but facts if you consider the kind of amps they you have, that again they are transparent, but all well designed/built amps should be transparent, including your SR6010. It you match them, any of them, with speakers that are known to be bright, you should apply EQ, or even simply tone control to your liking. If instead, you pick an amp that is supposed to sound "warm", then even if it is true, how do you know it would just "warm" enough to that particular speaker. How practical is it to find such a match if you want to hear each combinations, and if not, are you just going to go with internet/magazine hearsay?

Anyway, it is probably no point debating this everlasting point, so back to your question on which ARV for you HT, with Atmos capability. I would say if you are okay with the SR6010, you probably can do no wrong going with a SR6015, or 7015. If you are the objective type who trust specs and measurements, the the AVR-X3700H ,X4700H or X6700H will give you more value (better measurements) for less $.


Current ranking of AVRs and AV preamp/processors preamp output by THD+N, HDMI input, tested by ASR

View attachment 39938
Thank you!
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I have slight tinnitus and unfortunately my ears tell me the difference between my setups using the same speakers. They will start aching and ringing with HT setup in 2 channel mode.
I have much tinnitus so my ears have a little trouble telling the difference between setups, which is what one would expect with tinnitus. Your ability to detect higher frequencies diminishes as it gets worse and the only time my ears ache or ring (more than usual) is when I turn it up like, WAY too loud. This is the opposite of what you're experiencing. Were you diagnosed with tinnitus or just assuming? You might want to get checked if not because in my experience, and I have a lot of experience with tinnitus, it's the opposite of sensitivity and the ringing never stops. Years of loud music, shooting practice without ear protection and drumming have done a number on my hearing. I wish I had some of the sensitivity you're experiencing.
 
L

Leemix

Audioholic Chief
Over sensitivity can come from damage to the hairs in the inner ear and can cause pain or discomfort even at fairly moderate levels because the ear/brain is trying to compensate. It can also be heredetary and not just from loud.


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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Over sensitivity can come from damage to the hairs in the inner ear and can cause pain or discomfort even at fairly moderate levels because the ear/brain is trying to compensate. It can also be heredetary and not just from loud.
Sure, but then that's not tinnitus is it? If anything tinnitus causes a lack of sensitivity, especially with higher frequencies.
 
L

Leemix

Audioholic Chief
Sure, but then that's not tinnitus is it? If anything tinnitus causes a lack of sensitivity, especially with higher frequencies.
Its not no but you can have both at the same time and this type of sensitivity is a lack of actual hearing sensitivity. So you dont actually hear well those frequencies but you get discomfort or pain quite early when you do hear them. Like a short volume window between hearing and unpleasant.


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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Its not no but you can have both at the same time and this type of sensitivity is a lack of actual hearing sensitivity. So you dont actually hear well those frequencies but you get discomfort or pain quite early when you do hear them. Like a short volume window between hearing and unpleasant.
Well, I have been diagnosed with tinnitus and the only time I experience discomfort is with extreme volume or sometimes when it's dead quiet and all I can hear is the ringing. I have zero sensitivity to any certain frequencies. Tinnitus by itself doesn't cause sensitivity of any kind that I'm aware of. That's why I suggested op have his hearing checked if he hasn't already.
 
P

pinball

Enthusiast
I have much tinnitus so my ears have a little trouble telling the difference between setups, which is what one would expect with tinnitus. Your ability to detect higher frequencies diminishes as it gets worse and the only time my ears ache or ring (more than usual) is when I turn it up like, WAY too loud. This is the opposite of what you're experiencing. Were you diagnosed with tinnitus or just assuming? You might want to get checked if not because in my experience, and I have a lot of experience with tinnitus, it's the opposite of sensitivity and the ringing never stops. Years of loud music, shooting practice without ear protection and drumming have done a number on my hearing. I wish I had some of the sensitivity you're experiencing.
I have ringing in the ears that never go away. Not truly diagnosed but assume that is what it is. Like you too many years of loud music and firearms. Mine isn't severe thankfully. I don't really get too much fatigue unless it is at a louder volume. But notice it happens more with the HT 2 channel than it does with the mac 2 channel. This is while using the same Martin Logan speakers on either system.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Yes when I connect the Martin Logan to either system, they are not being moved.
Just checking, I've seen some guys setup 2ch in a different part of the room from an HT setup....but hearing so much difference in amps alone just isn't my experience.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
But notice it happens more with the HT 2 channel than it does with the mac 2 channel. This is while using the same Martin Logan speakers on either system.
Yeah, I already gave my opinion on that, along with Peng and a couple others. I don't think you'd be able to tell one from another if you were to DBT it. Did you read the link to the DBT I posted earlier? How about the video and explanation Peng posted? It's directly analogous to what I'm talking about.

There have been numerous articles and conversations on these forums on this subject and the majority conclusion is that any differences between competently designed amps are so small they're simply not audible. To my knowledge every single time this claim has been properly tested those "differences" completely disappear. I think your sighted, non level matched comparisons are coloring your perception and leading you to false conclusions. Sighted comparisons are infamously flawed, inaccurate and cannot be trusted. That's not just my opinion. It's an absolute, provable, testable fact.
 
P

pinball

Enthusiast
Yeah, I already gave my opinion on that, along with Peng and a couple others. I don't think you'd be able to tell one from another if you were to DBT it. Did you read the link to the DBT I posted earlier? How about the video and explanation Peng posted? It's directly analogous to what I'm talking about.

There have been numerous articles and conversations on these forums on this subject and the majority conclusion is that any differences between competently designed amps are so small they're simply not audible. To my knowledge every single time this claim has been properly tested those "differences" completely disappear. I think your sighted, non level matched comparisons are coloring your perception and leading you to false conclusions. Sighted comparisons are infamously flawed, inaccurate and cannot be trusted. That's not just my opinion. It's an absolute, provable, testable fact.
Yes I saw all the replies and video. I appreciate all the replies. I'll try to make more adjustments to the EQ on the HT setup. I honestly want to just use it for everything. This is the only reason I started this topic. It has nothing to do with the brand of 2 channel I have. I will gladly sell the mac setup and stick strictly with HT if I can enjoy it. I want to go to a one for everything system.

My next thing to try is connecting the mc2002 on the front L&R and using the AMP3 on the center and rears. If I add ATMOS upfiring, I will just use the Marantz internal amp to amplify them.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
pin, I know you've been bombarded with a lot of 'set up' info but here's another speaker one for what it's worth .....

 
P

pinball

Enthusiast
pin, I know you've been bombarded with a lot of 'set up' info but here's another speaker one for what it's worth .....

Great video! Thanks for sharing! Gonna give it a try and see if I can make it work in my area!
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
I have much tinnitus so my ears have a little trouble telling the difference between setups, which is what one would expect with tinnitus. Your ability to detect higher frequencies diminishes as it gets worse and the only time my ears ache or ring (more than usual) is when I turn it up like, WAY too loud. This is the opposite of what you're experiencing. Were you diagnosed with tinnitus or just assuming? You might want to get checked if not because in my experience, and I have a lot of experience with tinnitus, it's the opposite of sensitivity and the ringing never stops. Years of loud music, shooting practice without ear protection and drumming have done a number on my hearing. I wish I had some of the sensitivity you're experiencing.
My wife has tinnitus. The constant ringing is not fun for her. However, I have found there are some benefits. When the crickets were driving me crazy outside she could not hear them at all. Even when I asked her to listen closely. Also, the smoke detector started chirping in the middle of the night as it needed a new 9v battery. She slept like a baby while I had to get up and change it as it kept waking me. It didn't bother her at all.

With every issue there is a blessing as well as a downside. :cool:
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
My wife has tinnitus. The constant ringing is not fun for her. However, I have found there are some benefits. When the crickets were driving me crazy outside she could not hear them at all. Even when I asked her to listen closely. Also, the smoke detector started chirping in the middle of the night as it needed a new 9v battery. She slept like a baby while I had to get up and change it as it kept waking me. It didn't bother her at all.

With every issue there is a blessing as well as a downside. :cool:
Smoke detectors and crickets! I know exactly what you're saying here, and I can totally see that! Those sounds can blend right in with the ringing and are effectively masked. That was actually my point with listening fatigue being related to tinnitus. If anything you're less susceptible to listening fatigue or discomfort and there's likely something else going on.

*Edit: It's been quite a while since I lived in cricket/cicada country but I don't think my tinnitus has progressed as far as your wife's. I'm pretty sure I could still hear crickets and chirping smoke detectors, but everything you said makes sense to me. What you described is more or less how it works with me, just not as bad.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Had a friend who fronted a rock band for many years and developed a pretty bad case of hearing damage/tinnitus. At times, when not playing music, he said the tinnitus would trigger extreme migraine headaches.....yet he could tolerate playing in a band for the most part....
 

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