HSU VTF-TN1 vs Rythmik F18 for living room

[BoarMarket]

Hi all. I'm shopping for a subwoofer for my living room. I've narrowed down to the HSU VTF-TN1 and the Rythmik F18. I'm open to other options but these are the top two right now. Do you have any advice on what might suit me better?

Here are my requirements (in order).

1. I want to be completely satisfied with my selection. I want this to be my last subwoofer purchase—ever. Saving some money is good but overall I want to be happy. I read too many accounts of folks upgrading over and over again. I'm prepared to buy once, cry once if necessary.
2. Room size adaptability. Support current 3000 ft^3 room, and a potentially larger living room down the road. Either oversize a single sub for a 3000 ft^3 room, or size appropriately for a single sub, allowing the purchase of a matching second sub down the road.
3. 50/50 Home Theater/Music
   1. Music: rock and electronic music, Rock Band (PS4 video game)
   2. Theater: action, thrillers, and documentaries
4. I love me some boom with my action movies but I don’t like really boomy subs (like a souped up Civic). Higher fidelity is great. Bonus points for a sub that can be transitioned between sealed and ported with port plugs.
5. If purchasing matching set of subs at different times (one this year and another in, say, five years), I want to be reasonably certain that the model I select today will still be available for purchase down the road.
6. I do want to enjoy my subs but I don't want to annoy my neighbors. I live in a detached home but in a cramped neighborhood. I'm friendly with my neighbors and don't want to piss them off. For reference, when I use my current subwoofer (PS-12) at a "loud" volume, I can hardly hear it when standing outside my home (on the opposite side of the wall). Although I'm aware it likely doesn't have very low frequency output.
7. Low latency. Improved responsiveness when playing Rock Band, because game enjoyment is decreased when audio lag is present. Although game enjoyment is probably more affected by delay of high frequency reproduction than low frequency reproduction. All components in my theater system are intentionally selected to have minimal lag.

Room layout attached. 9 foot ceilings.

Current subwoofer is Infinity PS-12. Although it can replicate an earthquake rumble it feels underpowered. And I suspect that the frequency response curve is dropping a range of low frequencies. It was fine while I had it but I'm ready for an upgrade.

What I like about the F18: more horsepower, one sub would probably do the trick (might not need a matching pair), overall cheaper (one F18 as opposed to two TN1's)
What I like about the TN1: smaller footprint, easier to move (lighter), less likely to annoy my neighbors, one sub might be enough (as opposed to needing two subs--a matching pair)

There's a chance I'll get both and return one, but that's a lot of extra expense on shipping fees that I'm trying to avoid.

 

[lovinthehd]

In a room size like that I'd prefer multiples rather than a single. Rythmik has never struck me as a value proposition, the new Hsu definitely looks more interesting but I'd compare it to similar sized drivers from Rythmik otoh. Boomy subs are often an issue with cheaper/less competent subs, but as you get into the area of competent subs don't think that's an issue other than your integration method, maybe room somewhat.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi all. I'm shopping for a subwoofer for my living room. I've narrowed down to the HSU VTF-TN1 and the Rythmik F18. I'm open to other options but these are the top two right now. Do you have any advice on what might suit me better?

Here are my requirements (in order).

1. I want to be completely satisfied with my selection. I want this to be my last subwoofer purchase—ever. Saving some money is good but overall I want to be happy. I read too many accounts of folks upgrading over and over again. I'm prepared to buy once, cry once if necessary.
2. Room size adaptability. Support current 3000 ft^3 room, and a potentially larger living room down the road. Either oversize a single sub for a 3000 ft^3 room, or size appropriately for a single sub, allowing the purchase of a matching second sub down the road.
3. 50/50 Home Theater/Music
   1. Music: rock and electronic music, Rock Band (PS4 video game)
   2. Theater: action, thrillers, and documentaries
4. I love me some boom with my action movies but I don’t like really boomy subs (like a souped up Civic). Higher fidelity is great. Bonus points for a sub that can be transitioned between sealed and ported with port plugs.
5. If purchasing matching set of subs at different times (one this year and another in, say, five years), I want to be reasonably certain that the model I select today will still be available for purchase down the road.
6. I do want to enjoy my subs but I don't want to annoy my neighbors. I live in a detached home but in a cramped neighborhood. I'm friendly with my neighbors and don't want to piss them off. For reference, when I use my current subwoofer (PS-12) at a "loud" volume, I can hardly hear it when standing outside my home (on the opposite side of the wall). Although I'm aware it likely doesn't have very low frequency output.
7. Low latency. Improved responsiveness when playing Rock Band, because game enjoyment is decreased when audio lag is present. Although game enjoyment is probably more affected by delay of high frequency reproduction than low frequency reproduction. All components in my theater system are intentionally selected to have minimal lag.

Room layout attached. 9 foot ceilings.

Current subwoofer is Infinity PS-12. Although it can replicate an earthquake rumble it feels underpowered. And I suspect that the frequency response curve is dropping a range of low frequencies. It was fine while I had it but I'm ready for an upgrade.

What I like about the F18: more horsepower, one sub would probably do the trick (might not need a matching pair), overall cheaper (one F18 as opposed to two TN1's)
What I like about the TN1: smaller footprint, easier to move (lighter), less likely to annoy my neighbors, one sub might be enough (as opposed to needing two subs--a matching pair)

There's a chance I'll get both and return one, but that's a lot of extra expense on shipping fees that I'm trying to avoid.

I think the choice is clear and straightforward in your case. That is a relatively large space, so you need a ported sub at your price point. You also want reliability, so you don't want the added problem of the potential failure point of a servo system. In addition sealed designs are acoustically inefficient.
I would buy the HSU in your situation without a doubt, and buy the second one now or soon. That is a two sub space.
You need to understand that a sealed sub needs much more power than a ported sub for equivalent output. Much more power.
Sealed subs are inherently inefficient. That is because they need boosting 12 db per octave below the F3 of the driver.
Get two HSU subs and leave both ports open as that is the optimal alignment. Every design has an optimal volume and alignment. This ports closed or one port closed is BS. So, go for two HSUs of you can and leave both ports open and forget it. F3 18 Hz is low enough for anyone.

 

[BoarMarket]

I would buy the HSU in your situation without a doubt, and buy the second one now or soon. That is a two sub space.

Why the rush to buy a matching pair so quickly?

 

[TLS Guy]

Why the rush to buy a matching pair so quickly?

Because you get much more even distribution throughout the room.

 

[isolar8001]

Why the rush to buy a matching pair so quickly?

You mentioned getting the second sub in 5 years...by then the models will be different. Matching is probably out of the question unless you go used at that time.
You definitely need two.
Personally, I would get two Speedwoofer 12S's....400 bucks less than the F18 you mentioned.

What does the rest of this system comprise of ?
(not annoying your neighbors, yet wanting monster subs is a bit of a stretch)

 

[Trell]

You mentioned getting the second sub in 5 years...by then the models will be different. Matching is probably out of the question unless you go used at that time.
You definitely need two.
Personally, I would get two Speedwoofer 12S's....400 bucks less than the F18 you mentioned.

What does the rest of this system comprise of ?
(not annoying your neighbors, yet wanting monster subs is a bit of a stretch)

And then there are five years of missing better bass distribution, assuming the OP are free to place the subwoofers, speakers and MLP.

 

[TLS Guy]

You mentioned getting the second sub in 5 years...by then the models will be different. Matching is probably out of the question unless you go used at that time.
You definitely need two.
Personally, I would get two Speedwoofer 12S's....400 bucks less than the F18 you mentioned.

What does the rest of this system comprise of ?
(not annoying your neighbors, yet wanting monster subs is a bit of a stretch)

Servo subs have had a very checkered history and known for an excess of issues. This guy wants reliability so I am steering him away from a servo sub. In addition in his room ported subs are a much better bet. With ported design pretty much everything is against you. My advice is never use a sealed sub if you have an alternative, you get far better performance per watt of power with other alignments. That is just physics.

 

[isolar8001]

Servo subs have had a very checkered history and known for an excess of issues. This guy wants reliability so I am steering him away from a servo sub. In addition in his room ported subs are a much better bet. With ported design pretty much everything is against you. My advice is never use a sealed sub if you have an alternative, you get far better performance per watt of power with other alignments. That is just physics.

Not quite sure why you are bringing up servo's and sealed subs when I suggested 2 ported subs to him, but OK ?
As far as reliability goes, he will take his chances like everyone else....his "buy once" stance is laughable.

 

[TLS Guy]

Not quite sure why you are bringing up servo's and sealed subs when I suggested 2 ported subs to him, but OK ?
As far as reliability goes, he will take his chances like everyone else....his "buy once" stance is laughable.

Sorry. The OP just listed two subs on his short list, and I just assumed you were recommending the other one.
It should not be laughable that a sub should have a long life. If that is true it is a disgrace. In any event that HSU driver looks like a really well built driver. In any event of the SW amp should fail it is easily replaced even with an external amp if needs be. There is no Eq with a ported design so repowering is easy.

When you look at the data, the HSU is worth at least $400.00 more than the Speedwoofer.

Shady's recent review shows that sub to be a really good performer.

 

[isolar8001]

It should not be laughable that a sub should have a long life. If that is true it is a disgrace. In any event that HSU driver looks like a really well built driver. In any event of the SW amp should fail it is easily replaced even with an external amp if needs be.

The sub and the box should last a long long time (I get the feeling the OP is quite young)....the amp surely won't and can be replaced of course.

What cant be replaced is the DSP that a lot of these modern subs have built into the amp.
Just putting in a different amp gives you a different sub.
And of course you can make it a passive with a seperate amp..but its still not the same sub.

RSL Speedwoofers and many other brands use DSP for controlling over excursion and crossover slopes.
(as i'm sure you know)
Not sure if HSU is using anything like that.
You or I could make a nice sub out of the "bones" of the old one...most people cant.

He wants to buy once he said...that's just naive and unrealistic.

 

[TLS Guy]

The sub and the box should last a long long time (I get the feeling the OP is quite young)....the amp surely won't and can be replaced of course.

What cant be replaced is the DSP that a lot of these modern subs have built into the amp.
Just putting in a different amp gives you a different sub.
And of course you can make it a passive with a seperate amp..but its still not the same sub.

RSL Speedwoofers and many other brands use DSP for controlling over excursion and crossover slopes.
(as i'm sure you know)
Not sure if HSU is using anything like that.
You or I could make a nice sub out of the "bones" of the old one...most people cant.

He wants to buy once he said...that's just naive and unrealistic.

It darn well should not be unrealistic. Speaker drivers are very long lived if not abused, and amps can and should be.

I have 10 Quad 909s in daily use they were built between 1999 and 2004 and they are all fine. My 405s date from the seventies and eighties, I have three in daily use currently.

My AVPs have done well. I got rid of the first one as it had no HDMI. My Marantz from around 2007 had a very early failure due to a voltage regulator and was promptly repaired, as far as I know it still works, but I have not fired it up for years.

I have two Marantz 7701s from 2012 in daily use. I have had my 7705 in continuous for five years now.

My SR 106 crossovers date from the mid seventies, I have modified them to my needs, but they have not given trouble. My Crown VFX 2 from 1976 I have done one extensive refurbishment of.

My Quad 22 preamp is still fine as well as my other vintage Quad preamps and the two FM4 tuners.

The bottom line is that junk fails and well designed and built gear lasts a very, very long time. The problem is we are awash in absolute junk. There is no reason why a sub should not last 30 or 40 years and may be longer.

I now we continually deal with failures, but this largely involves receivers. I just wonder why?

 

[BoarMarket]

My current setup:
(AVR) Pioneer VSX-1020
(center) Infinity Primus C25
(floorstanding) 2x Infinity Primus 250
(bookshelf) 2x Infinity Primus 150
(sub) Infinity PS-12

I've had my speakers for 20 years. They've worked well besides some capacitors failing in my subwoofer. I ordered replacement caps from Mouser Electronics and soldiered them in. Been working ever since. The sub just never had much power to begin with. I'm a middle-aged engineer, but not an audio expert. I like the idea of skipping on the DSP, not only to improve reliability but also to diminish audio delay (that's assuming that it actually does). I understand HSU makes solid subs without needing a DSP. That's compelling to me.

I don't intend on driving my subs particularly hard but yes I do want them to last a long time (and sound great). Of course there's always a chance I have "bad luck" and the equipment fails mere months out of warranty. That's always possible. Perhaps an argument against the VTF-TN1's is the fact that they're so new, it's impossible to analyze longevity data. Folks haven't owned them long enough to know in what ways they fail.

Since the F18 is not recommended, are there any other 18" subs I should consider? Folks who upgrade to 18" drivers tend to have great things to say about them. If there are any other products I should consider, now's the time. I'm shopping pretty heavy. I very much appreciate the feedback thus far.

 

[TLS Guy]

My current setup:
(AVR) Pioneer VSX-1020
(center) Infinity Primus C25
(floorstanding) 2x Infinity Primus 250
(bookshelf) 2x Infinity Primus 150
(sub) Infinity PS-12

I've had my speakers for 20 years. They've worked well besides some capacitors failing in my subwoofer. I ordered replacement caps from Mouser Electronics and soldiered them in. Been working ever since. The sub just never had much power to begin with. I'm a middle-aged engineer, but not an audio expert. I like the idea of skipping on the DSP, not only to improve reliability but also to diminish audio delay (that's assuming that it actually does). I understand HSU makes solid subs without needing a DSP. That's compelling to me.

I don't intend on driving my subs particularly hard but yes I do want them to last a long time (and sound great). Of course there's always a chance I have "bad luck" and the equipment fails mere months out of warranty. That's always possible. Perhaps an argument against the VTF-TN1's is the fact that they're so new, it's impossible to analyze longevity data. Folks haven't owned them long enough to know in what ways they fail.

Since the F18 is not recommended, are there any other 18" subs I should consider? Folks who upgrade to 18" drivers tend to have great things to say about them. If there are any other products I should consider, now's the time. I'm shopping pretty heavy. I very much appreciate the feedback thus far.

Don't worry about the HSU subs. The plate amp is a standard good amp and the speaker driver looks exceptionally well built. HSU have historically provided very good value for money and reliability.

 

[BoarMarket]

I'm not worried, per se. I'm just seeing if there are any 18" options worth looking at.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm not worried, per se. I'm just seeing if there are any 18" options worth looking at.

Most I can think of are diy

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm not worried, per se. I'm just seeing if there are any 18" options worth looking at.

You don't need an 18" driver. The HSU you picked out as a pair will go quite low enough at power to satisfy anyone. Driver size is only one factor among many, and not the most important determinant of overall performance. You have to look at the Thiele/Small parameters as a whole package to see how a driver will perform.

 

[isolar8001]

I'm not worried, per se. I'm just seeing if there are any 18" options worth looking at.

Don't let Barack Obama hear you talk like that !

 

[everettT]

Quality bass over horsepower any day. If you can get away with one sub that's great, but the majority of rooms that aren't purpose built are better served with multiple subs.

 

[Matt34]

My current setup:
(AVR) Pioneer VSX-1020
(center) Infinity Primus C25
(floorstanding) 2x Infinity Primus 250
(bookshelf) 2x Infinity Primus 150
(sub) Infinity PS-12

I've had my speakers for 20 years. They've worked well besides some capacitors failing in my subwoofer. I ordered replacement caps from Mouser Electronics and soldiered them in. Been working ever since. The sub just never had much power to begin with. I'm a middle-aged engineer, but not an audio expert. I like the idea of skipping on the DSP, not only to improve reliability but also to diminish audio delay (that's assuming that it actually does). I understand HSU makes solid subs without needing a DSP. That's compelling to me.

I don't intend on driving my subs particularly hard but yes I do want them to last a long time (and sound great). Of course there's always a chance I have "bad luck" and the equipment fails mere months out of warranty. That's always possible. Perhaps an argument against the VTF-TN1's is the fact that they're so new, it's impossible to analyze longevity data. Folks haven't owned them long enough to know in what ways they fail.

Since the F18 is not recommended, are there any other 18" subs I should consider? Folks who upgrade to 18" drivers tend to have great things to say about them. If there are any other products I should consider, now's the time. I'm shopping pretty heavy. I very much appreciate the feedback thus far.

PSA EV1813, I had one and it was one of the best subs I ever had. Power Sound Audio