HSU VTF-3 MK4 or SVS PB12-NSD? Hmmm

[ridfighter]

Hi, well my question is, which sub do you get more bang for your money? HSU VTF-3 MK4 or SVS PB12-NSD? both are highly rated and in the $700 price range

a liitle about my preference, I love bass and and the more the merrier!! i listen to all kinds of music, I mostly watch TV (50%) Music(30%) and gaming (20%) and I live in a 950sf apartment on the ground floor with only one nieghbour who is cool with me, So i can turn it up as loud as i want, and if it gets too loud i can always get a Isolation pad, Anyways out of these 2 subs, which one would you pick? and why? and any other subs in this price range? Thanks a lot

 

[templemaners]

I'd probably go with the SVS, unless you got an aversion to metal grills or a love of rosenut finishes. Both subs seem well put together and I highly doubt you'd be disappointed with either one. The SVS is slightly smaller depth wise, if that matters at all.

SVS PB12-NSD Subwoofer Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics

 

[ridfighter]

Thanks a lot for the input

 

[NewHTbuyer]

There have been many threads comparing those two, plus the Outlaw LFM1- EX. All three are good subs, each with advantages. They have different configurations. For example, the Outlaw is down firing, so is protected. the HSU has a port on the back but the SVS has it on the front. They look slightly different. SVS has a better warranty. For some people, those factors will decide the matter, because all three are great performers. The SVS has a more linear response and, because of its build and DSP, is pretty impossible to overdrive. But the other two have better max output, spl, at most frequencies except below 30 Hz. The outlaw sometimes goes on sale, which makes it a great bang for the buck deal.

Also check out the new company founded by one of the original owners of SVS. It is called Powersound Audio.

 

[shadyJ]

I'd go for the VTF3. It will have a lot more output, greater extension, and more configurability. Hell, I would go for the VTF2 over the PB12. The PB12 has great textbook measurements, but it sacrifices so much headroom to get to that point that it's not a subwoofer I would recommend with respect to its Hsu and Outlaw competition.

 

[afterlife2]

SVS would be my choice a close 2nd. HSU.

 

[ridfighter]

Thanks for the responses! I am learning a lot!

 

[mike c]

I'd go for the VTF3. It will have a lot more output, greater extension, and more configurability. Hell, I would go for the VTF2 over the PB12. The PB12 has great textbook measurements, but it sacrifices so much headroom to get to that point that it's not a subwoofer I would recommend with respect to its Hsu and Outlaw competition.

do you have 3rd party CEA numbers for the HSU? how do you know "it will have a lot more output"?

 

[Steve81]

do you have 3rd party CEA numbers for the HSU? how do you know "it will have a lot more output"?

Ilkka did measure the vtf 3.3; obviously different testers, different equipment etc. but comparing those numbers with Josh's, I wouldn't say the Hsu has a huge advantage, especially in one port mode.

 

[mike c]

Ilkka did measure the vtf 3.3; obviously different testers, different equipment etc. but comparing those numbers with Josh's, I wouldn't say the Hsu has a huge advantage, especially in one port mode.

yeah the 3.3 and old pb12 were a wash iirc (THD numbers better for the pb12nsd)

the ilkka test was what convinced me years back to get the latter over HSU

i wonder if ilkka's test is RMS or peak (so it can be compared to Josh's numbers)

 

[Steve81]

yeah the 3.3 and old pb12 were a wash iirc (THD numbers better for the pb12nsd)

the ilkka test was what convinced me years back to get the latter over HSU

i wonder if ilkka's test is RMS or peak (so it can be compared to Josh's numbers)

The table indicates RMS.

CEA-2010 Standard Compilation - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 

[shadyJ]

do you have 3rd party CEA numbers for the HSU? how do you know "it will have a lot more output"?

Compare Josh Ricci's numbers for the PB12 against the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. The VTF3 is going to have roughly the same output as the Outlaw, but deeper extension, less distortion, and more versatility. As for Ilkka's tests, that was the VTF3 mk3 and the older PB12-NSD which used the bash amp. Clearly SVS has put the brakes on their new PB12s, wherein they lessen output and extension in order to gain a picture perfect FR and lower THD. In my opinion, this was a bad trade-off, and I would much rather have the Bash amp PB12 over the Sledge amp PB12. In Ilkka's tests they were roughly equal performing, and since then I think the VTF3 became better and the PB12 became worse.

 

[ridfighter]

Well after reading all these material, I just wanted to know what would y'all recommend as the top 3 subs in order for under$800?

 

[mike c]

Compare Josh Ricci's numbers for the PB12 against the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. The VTF3 is going to have roughly the same output as the Outlaw, but deeper extension, less distortion, and more versatility. As for Ilkka's tests, that was the VTF3 mk3 and the older PB12-NSD which used the bash amp. Clearly SVS has put the brakes on their new PB12s, wherein they lessen output and extension in order to gain a picture perfect FR and lower THD. In my opinion, this was a bad trade-off, and I would much rather have the Bash amp PB12 over the Sledge amp PB12. In Ilkka's tests they were roughly equal performing, and since then I think the VTF3 became better and the PB12 became worse.

wait, so you don't have CEA numbers.

try to structure your statements with "i think" or "IMO" instead of presenting them as fact. that's exactly how subwoofer hype starts and this is exactly why i like these ground plane tests ... facts not maybe's.

 

[gtpsuper24]

Well after reading all these material, I just wanted to know what would y'all recommend as the top 3 subs in order for under$800?

Ported: Power Sound Audio XV15, SVS PB12 NSD, HSU/Outlaw VTF 3/EX
Sealed: PSA XS15, Rumba 12, SVS SB12 NSD

PSA XV15 would probably have more output, but sound quality between the 3 is too subjective to really rank them as an absolute.

 

[Steve81]

The VTF3 is going to have roughly the same output as the Outlaw, but deeper extension, less distortion, and more versatility. As for Ilkka's tests, that was the VTF3 mk3 ...I think the VTF3 became better.

Based on what data?

I ask since the only improvements I've seen mentioned for the vtf3 mk4 was improved functionality/versatility, not extra output. All that said, the Outlaw is most certainly a more potent performer over the bulk of the bandwidth than the pb12. On the other hand, there is little question that the pb12 exhibits fantastic bandwidth linearity (at a cost as you've mentioned), has extremely low distortion, and is backed by a great warranty. It's ultimately up to the buyer to weight these factors to come to a decision. I don't think you can make a bad/wrong decision in either case.

 

[shadyJ]

wait, so you don't have CEA numbers.

try to structure your statements with "i think" or "IMO" instead of presenting them as fact. that's exactly how subwoofer hype starts and this is exactly why i like these ground plane tests ... facts not maybe's.

It is not hype or speculation for me personally, I own both subwoofers (the mk3 in the case of the VTF3) and the VTF3 definitely matches the LFM-1 in output. I suppose I should measure them in an equal setting, post the measurements, and put the matter to rest.

 

[mike c]

It is not hype or speculation for me personally, I own both subwoofers (the mk3 in the case of the VTF3) and the VTF3 definitely matches the LFM-1 in output. I suppose I should measure them in an equal setting, post the measurements, and put the matter to rest.

no. your statement was (paraphrased for clarity):

"the VTF 3 WILL have a lot more output than the pb12nsd"

i was wondering where your OBJECTIVE data was ... it seems you are doing a lot of guesstimating (there's nothing wrong with that), but you have to label them as estimates and not FACT.

 

[shadyJ]

A>B and B>C, so therefore A>C. We know how the LFM-1 fares against the PB12, and I know how the VTF3 fares against the Outlaw, so I think I can fairly say by deduction I know how the VTF3 will stack up next to a PB12. If you want to call that guestimating, ok, although I think I am on firmer ground than merely guessing.

 

[mike c]

i'm unfamiliar with the v4 HSU and outlaws ...

so based on the CEA numbers

3.3 =+- old PB12NSD (ilkka)
Outlaw > new PB12NSD (josh)

so how is the 3.3 going to have lots more output than the new PB12NSD?
are you saying the 3.4 is basically the outlaw, but you have the 3.3 (and speculating that the 3.4 became better ... where's the numbers on the 3.4?)

edit: just reread your post ... you actually say 3.3 > Outlaw ... but CEA numbers above doesn't seem like it is ... because Outlaw > 3.3

Compare Josh Ricci's numbers for the PB12 against the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. The VTF3 is going to have roughly the same output as the Outlaw, but deeper extension, less distortion, and more versatility. As for Ilkka's tests, that was the VTF3 mk3 and the older PB12-NSD which used the bash amp. Clearly SVS has put the brakes on their new PB12s, wherein they lessen output and extension in order to gain a picture perfect FR and lower THD. In my opinion, this was a bad trade-off, and I would much rather have the Bash amp PB12 over the Sledge amp PB12. In Ilkka's tests they were roughly equal performing, and since then I think the VTF3 became better and the PB12 became worse.

so what is
Outlaw ? 3.3
Outlaw ? 3.4

i don't get what you are saying with the outlaws and HSU's ... please put > < = to the above two.

and for apples to apples, let's compare ME and not mix the numbers of ME and MO modes.