moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
You will need mini DSP.

The point I was making is that a sealed speaker only has the loudspeaker cone to actually interface with the air to produce sound waves. At low frequency, a loudspeaker cone is a terribly inefficient coupler to the air in the room, and has to be driven by brute force. Whereas pipes, and horns especially plus also tuned ports are much more efficient at coupling to the room. So the enclosure can be looked at as an acoustic transformer to interface the driver with the room at low frequencies.

So in a ported speaker at the bandwidth of the resonance the loudspeaker cone pretty much stops still and the vast majority of the sound is efficiently radiated from the port.

Similarly with a TL, at the closed end of the pipe where the speaker is the pressure is high and air displacement minimal. This occurs over a much larger bandwidth than a ported design. So there is a wide bandwidth were the cone movement is very low and radiation of sound is from the port. This couples very efficiently and pipes are able to cover the room in a very uniform fashion. This is what organ builders call the encircling property of pipes.
This is really notable as a massive difference between a true pipe organ and an electric one producing sound from speakers. The true pipe organ has a highly uniform loudness throughout the room. This is why it enhances singing and supports the congregation to sing lustily. An electric organ on the other hand is much louder close to the speakers and does not support congregational singing nearly as well as a well designed and built pipe organ. That is a property that makes the sound of my TLs in the room very different from other designs.

The most efficient way to couple a speaker to the room is a horn, where the pressure between driver and throat is enormous and sound output from the horn mouth loud. in compared to the output from the loudspeaker driver.

So the point is speaker designs other than sealed act as acoustic impedance transformers to drastically improve the match between driver and room. If it were not for the size advantage you would absolutely never entertain the idea of putting a loudspeaker in a closed box. You would reject it out of hand!

Thanks for the detailed response.... so the minidsp is all i need then. I don't need to buy an acoustic transformer because the sealed cabinet acts as one?


The cabinet plans for the ported design that I posted was created by a program I believe. You're saying that this driver will absolutely not work well in that ported design? If that's what you are saying, I am just wondering why the computer computed the information and offered it as an option.
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks for the detailed response.... so the minidsp is all i need then. I don't need to buy an acoustic transformer because the sealed cabinet acts as one?


The cabinet plans for the ported design that I posted was created by a program I believe. You're saying that this driver will absolutely not work well in that ported design? If that's what you are saying, I am just wondering why the computer computed the information and offered it as an option.
The link I sent is a transform. It changes the effective Q and F to extend the low end.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
The link I sent is a transform. It changes the effective Q and F to extend the low end.
I'm not saying that. It will work, but you can tell that the driver in question was designed with a sealed cabinet in mind. I guess my real point is that you could buy a cheaper driver, with less xmax that would perform as well or better in a smaller ported cabinet. So the real point is waste of resources.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks for the detailed response.... so the minidsp is all i need then. I don't need to buy an acoustic transformer because the sealed cabinet acts as one?


The cabinet plans for the ported design that I posted was created by a program I believe. You're saying that this driver will absolutely not work well in that ported design? If that's what you are saying, I am just wondering why the computer computed the information and offered it as an option.
No you have not understood. A sealed cabinet is NOT an acoustic transformer. The cabinet just provides restoring force. So the driver has to be driven by brute force, with Eq and lots of power to make a decent sub. That is the whole problem with a sealed design. The ONLY advantage is smaller size and footprint.

The other designs are acoustic transformers, which match the acoustic impedance of the driver to the room.

Look at it another way. Say you have a driver of 87 db sensitivity at 1 meter. In a sealed enclosure if the F3 is 40 Hz, then at 20 Hz its sensitivity is only 73 db 1 meter. Now if that driver had a 3 db point of 20 Hz in a ported enclosure, then its sensitivity would be 84 db 1 meter at 20 Hz. You have to make up the difference with brute amplifier power in the sealed design. The other designs match the driver to the room at the lower frequencies without the loss of sensitivity with declining frequency. That is what it is all about.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
No you have not understood. A sealed cabinet is NOT an acoustic transformer. The cabinet just provides restoring force. So the driver has to be driven by brute force, with Eq and lots of power to make a decent sub. That is the whole problem with a sealed design. The ONLY advantage is smaller size and footprint.

The other designs are acoustic transformers, which match the acoustic impedance of the driver to the room.

Look at it another way. Say you have a driver of 87 db sensitivity at 1 meter. In a sealed enclosure if the F3 is 40 Hz, then at 20 Hz its sensitivity is only 73 db 1 meter. Now if that driver had a 3 db point of 20 Hz in a ported enclosure, then its sensitivity would be 84 db 1 meter at 20 Hz. You have to make up the difference with brute amplifier power in the sealed design. The other designs match the driver to the room at the lower frequencies without the loss of sensitivity with declining frequency. That is what it is all about.
Ah I see.... i ended up getting two XLS1502s @ 1550W bridged for each amp.... you think this will be enough power to run the DSP? The other members here thought so...
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Ah I see.... i ended up getting two XLS1502s @ 1550W bridged for each amp.... you think this will be enough power to run the DSP? The other members here thought so...
Yes, it will be plenty.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
In one of my previous posts, I mentioned that the Crowm XLS 1502 puts out 1550 Watts with a 4 ohm load when the two amp outputs are bridged. You can get a confirmation on Crown's website:

Since I will be bridging the XLS 1502 amp outputs, the amp will be using the 4 ohm load.

The Dynaudio is a 2 ohm dual voice coil. Does that mean I have to connect the amp in parallel or series? I am thinking parallel....(jumpers from positive reds and jumpers from negative blacks)

Is it correct in saying that it doesn't matter which coil you connect the speaker cable coming from the speakon to? (As long as positive to positive and neg to neg)
 
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Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
Since I will be bridging the XLS 1502 amp outputs, the amp will be using the 4 ohm load.

The Dynaudio is a 2 ohm dual voice coil. Does that mean I have to connect the amp in parallel or series? I am thinking parallel....(jumpers from positive reds and jumpers from negative blacks)

Is it correct in saying that it doesn't matter which coil you connect the speaker cable coming from the speakon to? (As long as positive to positive and neg to neg)
If the Dynaudio has two 2 ohm voice coils, they would have to be connected in series to obtain a 4 ohm impedance load for the XLS 1502. For this, you have to connect a red terminal of one voice coil to the black terminal of the other voice coil:

One DVC driver with Voice Coils in Series

 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Since I will be bridging the XLS 1502 amp outputs, the amp will be using the 4 ohm load.

The Dynaudio is a 2 ohm dual voice coil. Does that mean I have to connect the amp in parallel or series? I am thinking parallel....(jumpers from positive reds and jumpers from negative blacks)

Is it correct in saying that it doesn't matter which coil you connect the speaker cable coming from the speakon to? (As long as positive to positive and neg to neg)
I'm confused, what sub driver are we talking about?
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I'm not saying that. It will work, but you can tell that the driver in question was designed with a sealed cabinet in mind. I guess my real point is that you could buy a cheaper driver, with less xmax that would perform as well or better in a smaller ported cabinet. So the real point is waste of resources.
Yes the driver effectively only works as a sealed alignment, and yes your absolutely correct about driver choice, however the one he mentioned has all the correct parameters to be used as a abused sealed unit. More difficult, yes, but it can be aligned right.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
I'm confused, what sub driver are we talking about?
Whoops I meant the Dayton 18-22 Ultimax not the Dynaudio.... Damn D's.....

Also, I same to have 1 or 2 small air gaps in at 1 or 2 of the MDF joints...... I know these need to be sealed but would water and glue mixture fix this or should I cut another piece? I can see light coming through. It's probably 1/32".. not big but not air tight. Just need to seal it. Here is a pic:

air gap.jpg
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
Maybe glue some strips of mdf into the joints to help.....
That's an idea... Maybe also some silicon or some acoustical caulk........ I'll probably seal all the seems with silicon or acoustical caulk to be safe... what do you guys think?
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
That's an idea... Maybe also some silicon or some acoustical caulk........ I'll probably seal all the seems with silicon or acoustical caulk to be safe... what do you guys think?
Silicone caulk should do the job. Just use more than not enough. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put silicone all around each joint to get the assurance of a really sealed box. :)
Also, I would make sure that the silicone is dry before driving the sub to a high SPL.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Whoops I meant the Dayton 18-22 Ultimax not the Dynaudio.... Damn D's.....

Also, I same to have 1 or 2 small air gaps in at 1 or 2 of the MDF joints...... I know these need to be sealed but would water and glue mixture fix this or should I cut another piece? I can see light coming through. It's probably 1/32".. not big but not air tight. Just need to seal it. Here is a pic:

View attachment 26418
Maybe glue some strips of mdf into the joints to help.....
Silicone caulk should do the job. Just use more than not enough. Also, it wouldn't be a bad idea to put silicone all around each joint to get the assurance of a really sealed box. :)
Also, I would make sure that the silicone is dry before driving the sub to a high SPL.
As long as the inside is air gapped your good. Whatever you prefer as a mixture should be fine. Just make sure get the mixture to fill the gap without leaks.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
As long as the inside is air gapped your good. Whatever you prefer as a mixture should be fine. Just make sure get the mixture to fill the gap without leaks.
I've used dry wall compound on the finger to fix nicks in MDF before as well as to seal the grain for painting or staining. Not sure how I am going to finish them yet. Maybe the Duratek, spray paint, or body shop.... I can't stand painting. I would sat that I am a good amateur woodworker but not a painter. However, I am learning. Will post picks soon. I pretty much cut all the boards, rabbeted and dadoed them as well. Now have to make the braces. I am copying the parts express 18-22 Ultimax 4cf cabinet they have.
 
moves

moves

Audioholic Chief
If the Dynaudio has two 2 ohm voice coils, they would have to be connected in series to obtain a 4 ohm impedance load for the XLS 1502. For this, you have to connect a red terminal of one voice coil to the black terminal of the other voice coil:

One DVC driver with Voice Coils in Series


IN the Crown XLS 1502 manual, it says if using the Speakon output to run in bridged mode, connect the positive speaker cable to the +1 on the speakon and then the negative on the +2 connector on the speakon... then plug the speakon into channel 1 on the amp. why is that? I thought it was +1 and -1?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Not identical but the explanation about the positive 1,2 connections on the one channel I thought might help. Maybe @TLS Guy or @PENG can explain further?
 
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