Hsu Research VTF-TN1 Subwoofer Review

[Danzilla31]

I have an old REL R-328 that has died for the second time, so probably better to replace than fix again. What do you think would be better performance, one VTF-TN1 or two RSL Speedwoofer 12S? Not completely apples-to-apples cost, but close-ish if you consider shipping. This is for a large great room with a wide sitting area. I have never tried two subs, but assume there would be benefits to balance out the bass.

Could you if possible give us the actual room dimensions? Length x Width x Height

Also is the room open to other areas of the house or is it closed off both these variables are needed to help us give a good recommendation

 

[chrisyou13]

I will try to give some of the key dimensions (not the easiest to describe), great room 33' long x 24' wide x 8' high. Very open, L/R speakers (B&W CM9) are in the corners of the 24' wall, TV and center speaker are centered on the left 2/3 of the same wall, the remaining third is a fireplace. Opposite that is mostly kitchen with a hallway to the rest of the house. On the right 33' is mostly window and slider with the kitchen kitchen island, on the left is an office / den basically next to the viewing area with the hallway behind. Also a 4' x 8' skylight basically in the middle. Wood floors with an area rug in the TV sitting area. I do have to consider WAF, but may go the ask for forgiveness route. Thanks!

 

[-Jim-]

I will try to give some of the key dimensions (not the easiest to describe), great room 33' long x 24' wide x 8' high. Very open, L/R speakers (B&W CM9) are in the corners of the 24' wall, TV and center speaker are centered on the left 2/3 of the same wall, the remaining third is a fireplace. Opposite that is mostly kitchen with a hallway to the rest of the house. On the right 33' is mostly window and slider with the kitchen kitchen island, on the left is an office / den basically next to the viewing area with the hallway behind. Also a 4' x 8' skylight basically in the middle. Wood floors with an area rug in the TV sitting area. I do have to consider WAF, but may go the ask for forgiveness route. Thanks!

A sketch with photos would help!

 

[chrisyou13]

Hopefully this helps with. Thanks!

 

[Danzilla31]

Hopefully this helps with. Thanks!View attachment 69021View attachment 69022

This is great thanks! Honestly that's a massive space! I wouldn't consider anything less then the HSU VTF TN1

And that's at a minimum. The HSU actually looks pretty nice and they don't take up a ton of space like subs that aren't going for height like they are. They extend into infrasonics just as much as the RSL and they put out more output 30hz and above. And your going to want that 30hz and above punch in that room.

The HSU put out as much punch at about 40hz and above as my Rythmik FV18's and they put out a lot

If I were you I would buy the HSU now and save up a bit more and buy a second one later

The general rule of thumb in a room as big as that is buy the biggest and baddest and best sub your budget allows and then save up and down the round add a second one of the exact same sub later if you need to

 

[chrisyou13]

Thanks for the advice. What is your view on the best placement of the second sub? The first one is usually in the front left of the room near the left speaker, should the second one be on the right near the other speaker to balance the bass? Based on the current setup, albeit a smaller sealed sub, you get less punch as you move away from the sub.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I have an old REL R-328 that has died for the second time, so probably better to replace than fix again. What do you think would be better performance, one VTF-TN1 or two RSL Speedwoofer 12S? Not completely apples-to-apples cost, but close-ish if you consider shipping. This is for a large great room with a wide sitting area. I have never tried two subs, but assume there would be benefits to balance out the bass.

The very short answer to this question is two 12s.

 

[NINaudio]

I'd start off by swapping the locations of your right speaker and that air filter.

If you're concerned about having more even bass coverage over several listening spots then two subs is the way to go. If you mainly listen from one spot I'd get the HSU. There's no real way to suggest where best sub placement is for you. Ideally you should do the sub crawl to find out where are some spots that provide good response at your listening position. If you buy one sub, put it in the best spot you found. If you buy two, (usually, but not always) put them in the two best spots you found.

 

[Danzilla31]

Thanks for the advice. What is your view on the best placement of the second sub? The first one is usually in the front left of the room near the left speaker, should the second one be on the right near the other speaker to balance the bass? Based on the current setup, albeit a smaller sealed sub, you get less punch as you move away from the sub.

The only way to really know is to experiment with placement. Subs are so finicky to room placement. That's how those bass frequencies operate tho. By the time they hit your seated position they've been colliding with everything in the room including each other

The only way to know if that spot is the best place for how those bass frequencies hit your position is to just experiment on placement. That one spot on the right might work out great it might not. Their is no way to tell until you try

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Curious. Is the right front speaker way over by the window,

 

[NINaudio]

Curious. Is the right front speaker way over by the window,

It is. That's why I suggested he swap it's position with the air filter.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It is. That's why I suggested he swap it's position with the air filter.

Guess I missed that. I agree with your post as well.

 

[shadyJ]

The only way to really know is to experiment with placement. Subs are so finicky to room placement.

+1 this. So many people are concerned with what subwoofer brand sounds the best, but this is so misguided. The room plays a far greater role in bass sound quality than subwoofer brand. People will spend thousands for a subwoofer that they think might lead to some kind of sound quality increase, but then then they just slap the sub in the corner of the room. Next to the acoustics of the room, the subwoofer's own sound almost doesn't matter at all.

 

[chrisyou13]

Thanks everyone, appreciate the feedback!
Just to address some of the comments, yes the right speaker is in the right corner. This is not ideal, but it has worked as the best compromise. I have tried it with where the fan is, the fan is temporary but also draws complaints, this location is usually better for watching TV/movies, but is a little lacking for music. Thus it has lived most of its life in that corner. I will try it again with a new sub and see how it all works out, hopefully ideal sound gets the approval of others in the house.
Also, I have only run a 3.1 system. Furniture get's rearranged so determining the best spot for 2+ more speakers is difficult, not to mention running wires.
I just upgraded to the Onkyo TX-RZ70 so will be running room correction soon for the first time to see if that improves anything.
Appreciate any other suggestions. Thanks!

 

[gaby95]

The RP-1600SW is a more powerful sub overall, but the VTF-TN1 does dig deeper and has better behaved ports at the low end.

I am confused. I am comparing the number for both and if anything the 1600SW seems to dig deeper as it has a 3db advantage at 12.5. There is no 10hz listed for the HSU but most of the under 50hz frequencies if not all show the 1600 ahead.
Am I missing something?

 

[shadyJ]

I am confused. I am comparing the number for both and if anything the 1600SW seems to dig deeper as it has a 3db advantage at 12.5. There is no 10hz listed for the HSU but most of the under 50hz frequencies if not all show the 1600 ahead.
Am I missing something?

What you are missing isn't something that is easily shown by these tests. The VTF-TN1 has better-engineered port design. Sometimes these tests can capture port turbulence, but sometimes they miss it, even though it is clearly audible. When the Klipsch subis pushed, port turbulence sounds are very evident. This is exacerbated by the fact that the port is front-mounted. The Hsu ports are more optimized. They are also down-firing which helps to mask what port turbulence noise they may make. The Klipsch sub' port tuning looks to be a bit too low for that enclosure size and driver combo, whereas the Hsu ports are better balanced. Both subs are still terrific units, so its not as if the Klipsch sun is bad. On the contrary, it's a very good sub, just not quite perfect.

 

[adrianconst]

When comparing the plot against the table I see that the table values are higher than the plot values and it's not by about 9db at all frequencies in the table. So, it's not the difference between 1m and 2m. Then, what is it?

 

[adrianconst]

View attachment 68629​

Hsu Research gained a lot of attention recently when they announced a new subwoofer, the VTF-TN1. One of the reasons for that is that even though they are popularly known for their subwoofers, Hsu Research hasn’t actually released a new sub in quite a while, about 7 years (their last new sub release was the now sadly discontinued VTF-1 mk3). So it’s a big deal when Hsu Research, the original manufacture-direct subwoofer company and still a major player in home audio subs and speakers, announces a new release. Audio enthusiasts know to pay attention. The VTF-TN1 replaces Hsu Research’s previous flagship sub, the VTF-15h MKII. It has a lot in common with the former flagship, but it makes one big change that simultaneously enables greater performance yet lowers the pricing. This is what we will explore in today’s review of the VTF-TN1; how important enclosure and ports are to subwoofer performance. This is a sub that tries to give the user high performance at a low cost without skimping on the usual slate of features and post-purchase support that buyers in this segment have come to expect. We will be asking how the VTF-TN1 fares in such a highly competitive marketplace and what are its strengths and weaknesses as such a unique design in the subwoofer world.

READ: Hsu Research VTF-TN1 Subwoofer Review

I'm looking to upgrade my sub. I have an SB 3000 currently. I like the SVS app because it allows me a bit of tunning, so I was considering the PB 4000. After reading your review, it looks like TN1 is as competent as PB 4000, while about half price. Do you see any reason why PB 4000 would be a better choice?

 

[-Jim-]

I'm looking to upgrade my sub. I have an SB 3000 currently. I like the SVS app because it allows me a bit of tunning, so I was considering the PB 4000. After reading your review, it looks like TN1 is as competent as PB 4000, while about half price. Do you see any reason why PB 4000 would be a better choice?

It would be about having the App IMHO. Remember the Room, and the position of the Sub in it relative to the listener, will have far more impact that the Sub itself. Is having the App is worth another $1,000 too you? Do you have an AVR with Auto Tuning? Does it work for you now, or is it the App? How about adding a second SB 3000 instead?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It would be about having the App IMHO. Remember the Room, and the position of the Sub in it relative to the listener, will have far more impact that the Sub itself. Is having the App is worth another $1,000 too you? Do you have an AVR with Auto Tuning? Does it work for you now, or is it the App? How about adding a second SB 3000 instead?

I will agree to a point. You can’t take a bic America sub and with the proper placement expect it to perform like a JTR.

I think the app can be useful for some(not me), and while the pb4000 would be an upgrade, so would a pb3000. I think selling the sb3k for a pair of tn-1’s might be worthwhile. There are a lot of good choices out there for sure.