How would you GROUND ?

[sawzalot]

I am battling with some nitwit about the proper grounding method for your utilities and I know I am right in some areas and it seems he is right in others but there is no happy medium, here is the short version from my end:

Dish on roof, cable into house, tele into house, and so on, These utilities should be grounded, right? I am a firm believer that they should be grounded at the Earth grounding rod at your service entrance by the meter location, at least that is where almost all set-ups I have taken notice to have been grounded , now of course I have seen some of these without ground at all, my first install from DTV for example. I have also seen the dish techs ground to a hose bib which I feel is wrong, I always thought in the HT world we all love so much it is a no no to have one part grounded to some place totally different than all of your other grounds, also from a safety standpoint what if the house water lines are all PEX wouldn't that make this ground worthless, What if the home has well water most well casings are now rigid vinyl, pvc type material all the way to the foot valve ending right back at the pump.I feel this would not be a sufficient ground as well. What if your house is all copper water lines and you have a well with a pvc casing now a dish/dtv tech grounds to your hose bib, couldn't this be a safety issue since there is no real ground would you feel safe with your children in the bathtub when thunder boomers rolled through, I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

I would also like to know how you guys feel about grounding your incoming service to a water line rather than installing a grounding rod, obviously I prefer the rod driven into the ground for multiple grounds for the utilities but NEC code says you can use water lines as long as they are buried in the earth at a minimal length of ten feet, is this common practice to do or is the ground rod best, Thanks All, sawz.

 

[10010011]

I would think local building codes would say what the proper installation method is.

Personally I like everything grounded to one point, a buried ground rod. But when I installed my dish I did not ground the dish it's self, because it was in the opposite corner of my house as my utility entrance and ground rod. But I also live in a very low lighting area.

But I imagine even if I grounded the dish with a separate ground rod any differential would be negated. Because all the grounds in my HTS are tied together either thorough my house wiring and their interconnects anyway.

 

[Rickster71]

Give me a few minutes to type...I'm slow

Any real specific questions would help too; so I won't have to type the entire 250. & 810.21 code sections from memory.

 

[sawzalot]

Give me a few minutes to type...I'm slow

Any real specific questions would help too; so I won't have to type the entire 250. & 810.21 code sections from memory.

Just your basic thoughts Rickster on the whole grounding approach, Best for service at residential install , Ground Rod or water pipe ?

Where and when should additional utilities be grounded (D+V, di$h , comcrast , vereyezon ) I always felt they should all ground back to the Earth grounding rod for performance and safety, I mean we don't add additional rods unless they get bonded , correct ? Just looking for the easy layman thoughts on this, sawz.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am battling with some nitwit about the proper grounding method for your utilities and I know I am right in some areas and it seems he is right in others but there is no happy medium, here is the short version from my end:

Dish on roof, cable into house, tele into house, and so on, These utilities should be grounded, right? I am a firm believer that they should be grounded at the Earth grounding rod at your service entrance by the meter location, at least that is where almost all set-ups I have taken notice to have been grounded , now of course I have seen some of these without ground at all, my first install from DTV for example. I have also seen the dish techs ground to a hose bib which I feel is wrong, I always thought in the HT world we all love so much it is a no no to have one part grounded to some place totally different than all of your other grounds, also from a safety standpoint what if the house water lines are all PEX wouldn't that make this ground worthless, What if the home has well water most well casings are now rigid vinyl, pvc type material all the way to the foot valve ending right back at the pump.I feel this would not be a sufficient ground as well. What if your house is all copper water lines and you have a well with a pvc casing now a dish/dtv tech grounds to your hose bib, couldn't this be a safety issue since there is no real ground would you feel safe with your children in the bathtub when thunder boomers rolled through, I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

I would also like to know how you guys feel about grounding your incoming service to a water line rather than installing a grounding rod, obviously I prefer the rod driven into the ground for multiple grounds for the utilities but NEC code says you can use water lines as long as they are buried in the earth at a minimal length of ten feet, is this common practice to do or is the ground rod best, Thanks All, sawz.

You are absolutely correct. They are wrong and dangerous. Their system needs bonding to your house ground at the meter or directly to the house grounding rod or rod's.

If the techs won't do it right, then do it your self like I had to! Direct TV techs are total morons.

TV dish and FM antenna bonded.

Don't forget to bond your phone access. Paul Bunyan telephone techs were excellent and knew all about ground loops. Direct TV techs had never heard of them.

 

[Rickster71]

Dish on roof, cable into house, tele into house, and so on, These utilities should be grounded, right?

Yes

I have also seen the dish techs ground to a hose bib which I feel is wrong,

It is wrong. I'm sure their thinking is, "It's a bit better than nothing" But it's not how it should be done.

I always thought in the HT world we all love so much it is a no no to have one part grounded to some place totally different than all of your other grounds, also from a safety standpoint what if the house water lines are all PEX wouldn't that make this ground worthless, What if the home has well water most well casings are now rigid vinyl, pvc type material all the way to the foot valve ending right back at the pump.I feel this would not be a sufficient ground as well. What if your house is all copper water lines and you have a well with a pvc casing now a dish/dtv tech grounds to your hose bib, couldn't this be a safety issue since there is no real ground would you feel safe with your children in the bathtub when thunder boomers rolled through, I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Both the dish and the lead-in cable must be grounded in accordance with 810.21 (meaning your satellite cable & grounding block should be located and enter the home near where your main ground is located, and the messenger ground wire is tied to the grounding block(it's a thin wire that travels the length of the coaxial. This is called the "messenger" wire.)
But, be sure you ground the grounding block with a 10 AWG ground wire to the service entrance ground system, and is run in a straight line as much as possible.
Your residential ground rod system should consist of as least two ground rods 'not closer' than 8ft from each other and connected by a continuous 6 AWG copper wire.
The wire can be insulated or bare, stranded or solid. My preference would be stranded #6 green insulated copper first, or bare solid copper second.
We all have to remember the NEC ground rod requirement is a minimum. So as long as the 6AWG ground wire is bonded correctly you can add to the system and run a third or fourth ground electrode to a more convenient spot, and preferably a spot where the ground remains damp to lessen ground impedance.

Ground Rod or water pipe ?
I would also like to know how you guys feel about grounding your incoming service to a water line rather than installing a grounding rod, obviously I prefer the rod driven into the ground for multiple grounds for the utilities but NEC code says you can use water lines as long as they are buried in the earth at a minimal length of ten feet, is this common practice to do or is the ground rod best, Thanks All, sawz

Well, it's not an 'either' 'or' kinda thing. It's meant to be a Grounding / Bonding system.
Grounding water and gas pipes is protection in the case of them becoming accidentally energized.
If grounded & bonded correctly the current will have a ground path and trip the breaker. Otherwise the human that touches the energized pipe becomes the ground path.
At points where there is a meter or some type of insulating joint, a bonding jumper is put in place, also a jumper is placed at the hot water heater's hot & cold pipes.

PVC well casings and PEX water lines & wells make a poor ground, so adding an additional ground rod is the way to go.

Hope this helps

 

[Alex2507]

Direct TV techs are total morons.

I'm hoping that you'll open up a little more on the forum.
Holding back the way you do isn't good.
Just say what you feel.