How to biamp?

[Joe Schmoe]

My speakers are bi-ampable (though Boston explicitely says not to use an external crossover.) My new Denon (2-channel) receiver has pre-outs. My old Carver integrated has main-ins, so it can be used as a straight power amp. Is this enough to try bi-amping? If so, how do I configure it?

 

[Johnd]

The preferred method for biamping is to use the same receiver or identical amplifiers.

 

[OttoMatic]

Hi Joe,

Sure, I think you could try it with that setup. First, remove the straps that connect your "top" and "bottom" inputs on your speakers. Then, do something like this:

Denon speaker outputs to the "top" of your speaker inputs using speaker cables.

Denon preamp outputs->Carver main in->"bottom" of your speaker inputs using speaker cables.

That's pretty much it to do the bi-amp setup. However, I'd match the levels of the two amplifiers. I'd probably do this before any of the setup stuff above. Just connect the speakers "normally" (i.e., with the straps), set your Denon to play a tone or noise using REW, and then turn your volume up till it measures, say, 75 dB. Then disconnect that, go Denon->Carver->speakers (still in full range mode on the speakers), and remeasure. Be sure to leave the Denon's volume knob at the same position. Adjust the Carver's volume knob until you measure the same SPL. Like I said, you can use tones at varying frequencies (I'd probably pick 200 Hz and 1kHz as starting points), or you can use pink noise. Go back and forth until you are satisfied that you are going to the same output level from both configs. You may also want to try different volumes and make sure that things stay linear.

Ultimately, you'd want to have identical amplifiers all the way around, but this will work. You can also experiment with the Denon driving the "bottom" and the Carver driving the "top".

Good luck!

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Adjust the Carver's volume knob until you measure the same SPL.

Thank you. This step could present a problem. The Carver is, in effect, a separarate pre-amp and power amp in a shared chassis. When the "straps" bridging these are removed, I don't think that the volume control has any effect.
Oh well, it was just going to be an experiment anyhow. I love the way it sounds now, but thought that going from 50 watts/ch to a total of 150 watts/ch might make it even better.
Maybe someday, if I feel like spending the $, I will try a separate power amp. (using the Carver as a power amp is another possible experiment. The Denon has a cleaner preamp section, but the Carver is twice as powerful.)

 

[Johnd]

thought that going from 50 watts/ch to a total of 150 watts/ch might make it even better

Ouch. Only 50 watts? I didn't realize your Denon had that little power. There ought to be a substantial difference when you upgrade. Someday. At least you "love the way it sounds now"...that's some consolation. Cheers.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Ouch. Only 50 watts? I didn't realize your Denon had that little power. There ought to be a substantial difference when you upgrade. Someday. At least you "love the way it sounds now"...that's some consolation. Cheers.

Yeah. Going from the Carver to the Denon was a step up in sound quality (clarity and detail are very noticeably improved), but a step down in power. It may not matter, though, as I listen at fairly low volume. The greater headroom might make a difference. As I said, I have not tried using the Denon preamp/Carver power amp combo yet.

 

[Seth=L]

The preferred method for biamping is to use the same receiver or identical amplifiers.

Biamping using the receiver is just another fun version of bi-wiring.

 

[zumbo]

Biamping using the receiver is just another fun version of bi-wiring.

Watch it! I made this argument for days with Otto. He will prove you wrong (technically), and he hands out red chicklets for this opinion as well.

However, I agree!

 

[mazersteven]

and he hands out red chicklets for this opinion as well.

However, I agree!

Glad I had you check your Chicklets? LOL

 

[OttoMatic]

Watch it! I made this argument for days with Otto. He will prove you wrong (technically), and he hands out red chicklets for this opinion as well.

Come on, man.

First, anyone who cares and who knows what's going on can see what kind of information was offered in that thread. I was just trying to keep things straight.

Second, I don't think I handed out a red chicklet for any of those posts. The one in question was for other misinformation, as outlined in PM.

Gimme a break here. Do these "chicklets" really matter to anyone?

 

[mazersteven]

Gimme a break here. Do these "chicklets" really matter to anyone?

They wouldn't be there if they didn't matter.

 

[OttoMatic]

Watch it! I made this argument for days with Otto. He will prove you wrong (technically), and he hands out red chicklets for this opinion as well.

However, I agree!

Also, note that the OP in this thread asked about using a receiver in conjunction with an external amplifier to pull off the bi-amp. So, according to you, at least previously, this would count as bi-amping, right?

 

[zumbo]

Also, note that the OP in this thread asked about using a receiver in conjunction with an external amplifier to pull off the bi-amp. So, according to you, at least previously, this would count as bi-amping, right?

Look, you proved me wrong(technically). I mentioned in a later thread that you were more educated with the technical information than I was. No need to get back on my case here. I just see things the way Seth=L does in this thread, and warned that you may get your feathers ruffled. Looks like you did.

Do I get another red chicklet now?

The preferred method for biamping is to use the same receiver or identical amplifiers.

Biamping using the receiver is just another fun version of bi-wiring.

 

[mtrycrafts]

My speakers are bi-ampable (though Boston explicitely says not to use an external crossover.)

That would be correct on their part unless you bypass the speaker's internal passive filters and go direct to the drivers. In that case you need an active crossover. this latter setup is where you have a great benefit, not the passive bi-amping. I would not recommend that approach, passive bi-amping. what is gained?

 

[zumbo]

That would be correct on their part unless you bypass the speaker's internal passive filters and go direct to the drivers. In that case you need an active crossover. this latter setup is where you have a great benefit, not the passive bi-amping. I would not recommend that approach, passive bi-amping. what is gained?

Uh oh!

I agree here too.

 

[no. 5]

though Boston explicitely says not to use an external crossover.

Did they give any explanation as to why?

I would not recommend that approach, passive bi-amping. what is gained?

A conversation starter: "that's a lot of wires attached to your speaker!"

 

[mtrycrafts]

A conversation starter: "that's a lot of wires attached to your speaker!"

Now why didn't I think of that benefit. What a site LOL

 

[mtrycrafts]

Did they give any explanation as to why?

Ops, forgot about this part. You don't what two filters doing similar tasks on a driver. Screws things up.

 

[Johnd]

Look, you proved me wrong(technically). I mentioned in a later thread that you were more educated with the technical information than I was. No need to get back on my case here. I just see things the way Seth=L does in this thread, and warned that you may get your feathers ruffled. Looks like you did.

Do I get another red chicklet now?

Why do you keep quoting me with all this hullaballoo? Regardless of what Seth or you write, I stand behind my original statement. The op did not question the differences or benefits in passive vs. active biamping. He also wrote that he simply wanted to "try" biamping...leading me to believe that he was not remotely interested in crossovers.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Why do you keep quoting me with all this hullaballoo? Regardless of what Seth or you write, I stand behind my original statement. The op did not question the differences or benefits in passive vs. active biamping. He also wrote that he simply wanted to "try" biamping...leading me to believe that he was not remotely interested in crossovers.

Even if I were interested in crossovers, I would not have the technical knowledge to use one effectively (bypassing the speaker's own filters and such.) I am also not a DIYer, and would not want to risk opening the speakers and changing the internal wiring in any event.
I have pretty much given up on the experiment anyhow, as I don't think I can adjust the output level of the Carver. If I do decide that more power would be a benefit, I might try adding a separate power amp (or two, the Emotiva BPA-1s are tempting.)