Home Theater in non-ideal room?

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speedrx

Audiophyte
Purchased a new house, had everything we wanted except dedicated media room so I am having to compromise and use a non-ideal solution, the gameroom. The room is upstairs, walls on 3 sides but completely open on one side to a 2 story entry. I will be setting up a home theater in the room with primary use TV (Football, etc) and movies. Not much time to just sit and listem to music.

Planning to use a good receiver like a Yamaha A1010 + Oppo Blu-Ray player and a Sharp 70" LCD TV. TV and components will be against one wall, there will be wall on right and wall on back, area to the left will be open

The big question is how do people deal with the speaker systems in gameroom type rooms with open areas such as this? How can you get good HT sound? I would prefer some on-wall speakers, something out of the way since this is a gameroom and prefer not to have a lot of large speakers out. I want a clean look, this room is out in the open when you come up the stairs, but will consider options to get good HT performance.

Considering the KEF T305's for a 5.1 or can add a couple of in-walls to go 7.1. Also looking at Definitive Tech Mythos series. Probably $3K - $5K budget for speakers, like getting deals on EBAY, Craigslist, etc.

What would you recommend for this non-ideal space?
 
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FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
The standard way to deal with a non-symmetrical room with large openings and less than ideal placement and whatnot is to use speakers that are a bit more directional. If you use speakers that have very wide dispersion, you're going to get a lot of unpredictable and uneven reflections since one side has a wall, the other doesn't, and the placement of everything isn't quite in the "ideal" spots.

One potentially good option - especially since you desire on-wall speakers - would be the GoldenEar SuperSat speakers . Given that you are planning to use a 70" Sharp, I'm assuming the room is fairly large and you will be sitting fairly far away, so the larger SuperSat 50 and SuperSat 50C Center would likely be the best option, since you'll need louder output capabilities if you are sitting farther away or in a larger room. The folded ribbon tweeter in the GoldenEar SuperSat speakers, I've found, tends to work quite well in less-than-ideal placement scenarios. It "beams" a little bit, which isn't always ideal, but in a situation like yours, it's exactly what you're after! You want to control the dispersion and have more of the direct sound coming at you vs. reflected sound. So the SuperSats with that folded ribbon tweeter are a very good option, IMO. You can wall-mount them. They look pretty sleek and won't be distracting in terms of looks. But most importantly, I think they'll deliver good sound quality for you, despite the compromised room and placement :)

Your main issue though is going to be bass. A wide open room like yours is a real challenge. A subwoofer does not "know" that only a certain portion of your house or room is considered the "theater area". Sound waves will travel where ever they CAN travel. So having a wide open side that also joins a second floor beneath is a huge challenge for the bass. For one thing, any subwoofer is going to be trying to pressurize the entire volume of air. Not just the "theater area". Any air that CAN move? The subwoofer is going to be trying to move it. Which means the active volume of air is HUGE in your case, and an extreme challenge for any subwoofer to pressurize.

The other big problem is that I doubt you want the entire house being subjected to loud, thumping bass! Again, bass is never going to be "contained" in just the "theater area". Wide open access to the rest of the house means the bass is going to travel anywhere and everywhere.

So just in terms of bass sound, you're likely to be best served by positioning your subwoofer close to your seat in the theater/games room. Allow the direct soundwaves coming from the sub to go right into your seat and that will help. Honestly, I wouldn't even try to pressurize the entire volume of air. It's just too much and you don't want to pressurize the air outside of your "theater area" anyway! So I'd opt for a high quality, front-mounted, front-ported sub with very good self-protection circuits so that you can aim it right at your seat, have it positioned close to your seat, and crank it as loud as you please without worrying that it will ever bottom out, distort or cause any sort of problems.

With a close placement and a large room, plus that wide open space on one side, I'd probably split the difference and go for something like an SVSound PB12-Plus. If the room were closed in by 4 walls and a door - again, I'm making some guesses as to the size of the "theater area" based on your plan for a 70" screen - the PB12-Plus would likely be the correct choice in terms of output for that room size anyway. By having it positioned close to your seat, you're not going to require all of its very capable output, but at the same time, you still want to be able to fill the entire "theater area" with loud, deep, satisfying bass. Then, if and when the subwoofer is attempting to pressurize the entire open volume of air with that wide open side wall, you don't have to worry about the PB12-Plus over-driving itself or distorting. SVSound's newest "Sledge" amplifiers offer superb protection for the subwoofer and simply do not allow it to distort or play louder than what is safe for the subwoofer. So can rest easy knowing that you can crank it as loud as you want and you'll never damage the sub or even get it to sound bad :)

So that'd be my recommendation. It should fit within your budget. The other thing you could do if you want more tactile impact than your subwoofer can produce is you could opt to install tactile transducers in your seat. These take the subwoofer output signal (they share it with your subwoofer via a splitter or using the second subwoofer output on your receiver if your receiver offers dual subwoofer output plugs) and they turn that signal into movement rather than sound. I tend to prefer The ButtKicker brand tactile transducers, which are literally a heavy piston suspended in a magnetic field. They can really shake any chair, but with a great level of detail and control so that you really feel not just shaking, but subtle differences between each bass note!

Hope that helps :)
 
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ACsGreens

Full Audioholic
hmmm.

I would deffiniately listen to Golden Ears before purchasing...to note I am not saying that badmouthing Golden Ears at all, they just seem to really fit some people and not as much others. Hopefully for you they would be great!
 
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speedrx

Audiophyte
Thanks for the great detailed response. I am not familiar with the Golden Ear speakers so I will start doing some research. Having directional speakers makes sense given the lack of enclosure for bouncing sound, I think it may take a couple of different trial and errors to get something that works just right. Bass sounds like the biggest challenge so I will play with some different options.
 
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speedrx

Audiophyte
I would deffiniately listen to Golden Ears before purchasing...to note I am not saying that badmouthing Golden Ears at all, they just seem to really fit some people and not as much others. Hopefully for you they would be great!
I am assuming you tried the Golden Ears and they didn't work for you. Can you elaborate more about your experience and what you ultimately decided on?
 
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FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
I would deffiniately listen to Golden Ears before purchasing...to note I am not saying that badmouthing Golden Ears at all, they just seem to really fit some people and not as much others. Hopefully for you they would be great!
I am assuming you tried the Golden Ears and they didn't work for you. Can you elaborate more about your experience and what you ultimately decided on?
I totally agree that auditioning and hearing ANY potential speakers for yourself - preferably in your own room - is a very important experience before deciding to keep any speakers.

In regards to the SuperSat GoldenEar speakers in particular, they are not perfectly linear speakers, so in that regard, they're not what a lot of people would look for if they're after the highest level of accuracy or something that could act as a studio monitor or something like that. However, the whole idea behind the design of the SuperSat speakers was that they would be placed in less than ideal situations. The on-wall placement is already a big compromise for any speaker. Then you throw in the idea that on-wall speakers often cannot be "toed in" or "aimed" at the listening position. Then you throw in that a lot of people stuff speakers like these into the crevasses of an entertainment cabinet or a bookcase or shelving unit.

So while the SuperSat speakers do not measure "flat" in an anechoic setting, their design is meant for less than ideal placement. The highest frequencies are tipped up (ie. louder), but this is because the expectation is that an on-wall mounting will create a situation where the speakers are basically pointing straight out and are not "aimed" at the listener. In the sort of "standard" placement of a speaker on either side of a wall-mounted TV and the Center speaker wall-mounted either directly above or directly below the TV, the tipped-up top end combines with the slightly more directional folded ribbon tweeter to create a pretty nicely balanced frequency response at your actual seat. If you position yourself bang on so that the speaker is pointed straight at you, you might find the highest frequencies a bit grating or amplified. But with the typical on-wall placement, the design works pretty well.

By comparison, the lower treble is a bit "sunken" - ie. the frequency response is quieter in the 4-6kHz range. This is the "screechy" range - and a particular problem in mp3 and AAC compressed music where there tends to be a ton of clipping in the signal due to the oh-so-crappy music mixing and engineering being done these days. In other words, the SuperSats are engineered to sound "pleasant" rather than brutally accurate. They basically work to "hide" some of the most annoying and obnoxious sounds that are so common in so much of today's music.

They're pretty flat through the critical 200Hz-2kHz midrange. And that's a very good thing! That's the range of the human voice for the most part, and you ALWAYS want that to be accurate and have linear frequency response. Nothing sounds stranger to us than inaccuracy in the midrange, since that is where our hearing is the most sensitive.

Below 200Hz, all on their own, the SuperSat speakers start to quiet down with a fairly gradual slope. But again, they were meant to go on the wall. With the wall very close to them, those upper-bass/lower-midrange frequencies get reinforced and you actually end up with a bit of a boost in that upper bass section. That tends to help these very thin speakers sound "larger" and more "solid" and can also help with the blend in the cross-over region to the subwoofer.

So basically, the SuperSats were engineered for "pleasing" sound and to overcome some of the many hurdles that crop up with on-wall placement or placement in an entertainment unit. But, strictly speaking, they are not "accurate" speakers. All on their own, they don't exhibit a perfectly flat and linear frequency response, and that lower-treble dip really bothers some listeners who don't want anything "sugar coated".

So it's definitely a matter of taste! My opinion is that I have an appreciation for what the folks over at GoldenEar were trying to do with the design of the SuperSat speakers. I don't think they were going for brutal accuracy. I think they were going for a "pleasing" sound and something that would generally sound "good" when you hang them on the wall, and pretty much regardless of what sort of material you are playing. Go ahead and play today's oh-so-common dynamically compressed music and overblown movie soundtracks. It's not like we can really escape them? So is it really a bad move to make a design choice in the sound of the speaker that covers up some of their warts and makes most of what we listen to sound more "pleasing"? Well, to some people, that's unacceptable because they want brutal honesty. To other people, it's exactly what they want and they'll say the SuperSats are some of the best speakers they've ever heard because of that :)
 
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speedrx

Audiophyte
I decided to go with the Definitive Technology Mythos XTR-50's (3) with XTR-20BP surrounds (2) and 2 Supercube subs.

5.1. setup for now, I can expand to 7.1 in future and may experiment some additional speakers to see if it really improves anything.
 
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speedrx

Audiophyte
The DT system didn't sound as crisp and detailed as I expected so I switched to the KEF T205 system + 2 additional T101's on the side for a 7.1 system. This setup is awesome and just want I wanted for looks and performance.

If you need a system with minimal footprint and ggreat sound, you should check these out.
 
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