Home improvement project goes awry

[MDS]

As is usually the case with me, any time I get a bright idea to do some home improvement project, it always ends up frustrating and takes forever. After this, I promise to always pay some one else to do this kind of stuff!

My laundry room is empty of appliances because I'm preparing to re-do all the tile in the house. So I decide to prime, paint, and seal up every tiny little gap I can find while the room is empty.

Bright idea #1: Take down the wire shelving so I can paint the entire wall.

It turns out one of the bolts was a stupid toggle bolt and I couldn't get it out of the wall no matter what tricks I tried. I couldn't even get it to unscrew enough to let the toggle fall into the wall. I ended up making the hole bigger to get the bolt out and now I have a 2" hole to be fixed and then re-textured.

Bright idea #2: Replace the dryer vent and outside hood and foam and/or caulk all the little gaps.

Home Depot and Lowe's sell the same kind of replacement vents with hoods already attached. One type has a flexible aluminum pipe and a plastic vent hood. The other type is rigid aluminum or galvanized steel with a solid metal vent hood and is much more sturdy.

However, BOTH of them have attached pipes that are not long enough to make it through the wall and leave enough to attach the dryer vent hose!

So...I have to buy separate vent pipe and a separate vent hood, which is basically how it was before. The galvanized pipe is the required 4" diameter but the shortest length available is 24", when I need it to be about 13" (instead of the 11.5" of the pre-made kits).

So my new dilemma is how do I cut galvanized steel pipe down to size? I read that it basically requires a special kind of pipe vise and cutting tool but I guess I'll try to use a hacksaw or maybe tin-snips. Lowe's told me they can't do it even though they have a sign that says 'we can cut galvinized and iron pipes for you'.

Nothing ever goes as planned and every project requires multiple trips to the hardware or home improvement store...

 

[Alex2507]

Brutal. Cutting galvanized pipe and galvanized duct are different. Tin snips are the answer. To get a square line around the round duct wrap a piece of printer paper around it and line up the ends to mark it. You don't want to have to call a duct guy/HVAC company ... or maybe you do.

 

[billy p]

Most skilled trades people won't touch small jobs or they'll give you some ridiculous estimate...so, your forced to DIY. Just remember metal duct tape is your friend ...it's like silicone or latex caulking....

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Bright idea #1: Take down the wire shelving so I can paint the entire wall.
It turns out one of the bolts was a stupid toggle bolt and I couldn't get it out of the wall no matter what tricks I tried. I couldn't even get it to unscrew enough to let the toggle fall into the wall.

Next time, if there is a similar next time, cut the screw head off and push the remainder into the wall.

...
Bright idea #2: Replace the dryer vent and outside hood and foam and/or caulk all the little gaps....
Nothing ever goes as planned and every project requires multiple trips to the hardware or home improvement store...

Yes, but what else would you do with your free time? Someone else may cost a small fortune and still end up with issues.
Just keep at it.

 

[Alex2507]

... metal duct tape is your friend ...

That aluminum tape? ... yeah, good stuff on any joints if you can get to them.

If I remember right the fixed duct has a side that is crimped to make it slightly smaller so that it will fit into an un-crimped end. That's the side that you save and don't cut off. If the duct doesn't have an open seem that allows for tin snips to get in where you want to start cutting then just start on the un-crimped end. The cut-off will look like a long apple peel. Cut the peel looking part off the main duct every so often to keep it from being hard to deal with as you cut further into the duct.

I only know a little about this from replacing an exhaust fan at my sister's. Normally I use Home Depot because they will have somebody in each department that knows stuff and can help. Lowe's is generally useless for that ... and for everything else.

 

[Midwesthonky]

Oh that duct work sounds familiar! Tin snips is the easiest way to go as suggested by the others already. Mark out the cut line first with the paper idea. Also be sure to make sure you cut the correct end else it's another run back to the store.

I've worked with the metal ducting before and had to cut it. It's not difficult but not a cake walk either. Just be methodical and you'll be fine.


The problem with a stock vent not fitting through the wall has kept me from replacing them on more than one occasion. It's all manly fun isn't it? (as I stand here needing two hands and some toes to count the projects still currently open...)

 

[Rickster71]

Another alternative is to buy the vent pipe that isn't completely assembled; it's kind of "U" shaped.
It's much easier to cut when you can lay it almost flat; both sides have "J" bends in them so they will hook together.

I'd recommend using the galvanized 4". It will contain a lint fire; while on the other hand, aluminum pipe will melt in a fire.

Don't forget to invest in a dryer duct lint brush.
Good Luck, and be careful out there.

 

[highfigh]

It turns out one of the bolts was a stupid toggle bolt and I couldn't get it out of the wall no matter what tricks I tried. I couldn't even get it to unscrew enough to let the toggle fall into the wall. I ended up making the hole bigger to get the bolt out and now I have a 2" hole to be fixed and then re-textured.

Bright idea #2: Replace the dryer vent and outside hood and foam and/or caulk all the little gaps.

Home Depot and Lowe's sell the same kind of replacement vents with hoods already attached. One type has a flexible aluminum pipe and a plastic vent hood. The other type is rigid aluminum or galvanized steel with a solid metal vent hood and is much more sturdy.

However, BOTH of them have attached pipes that are not long enough to make it through the wall and leave enough to attach the dryer vent hose!

So my new dilemma is how do I cut galvanized steel pipe down to size? I read that it basically requires a special kind of pipe vise and cutting tool but I guess I'll try to use a hacksaw or maybe tin-snips. Lowe's told me they can't do it even though they have a sign that says 'we can cut galvinized and iron pipes for you'.

Nothing ever goes as planned and every project requires multiple trips to the hardware or home improvement store...

They do cut pipe. A duct isn't 'pipe'.

Tin snips work best for this- if you're right-handed, get left cut snips (yellow grips) and if you're left-handed, get right cut snips (green grips). If you don't want to cut all the way to the line, you can drill a 3/4" hole near the line (use a piece of wood to back up the sheet metal) and start from there.

Ditto on cutting the bolt- the hole was already there and a new one is about thirty cents.

 

[Rickster71]

Tin snips work best for this- if you're right-handed, get left cut snips (yellow grips) and if you're left-handed, get right cut snips (green grips).

I wasn't sure if you were kidding about being left handed or right handed, and using the corresponding snip?

So here is a bit of info on Aviation snips:
It more about the direction of the curved cut.

Left cutting snips are red cut straight and in a tight curve to the left.
Right cutting snips ( green) will cut straight and in a tight curve to the right
Straight cutting snips (generally have yellow colored soft grips) cut in a straight line and wide curves.

 

[sawzalot]

100% correct,I have used tin snips most of my working days and Rick nailed it, his description of colored handle usage is perfect, there is not a particular color for a left handed or right handed user, although the different color tool may feel more comfortable to someone, I actually use the green handle mostly and they work great when you hold them upside down for the straight cuts, :
Lowes has a dryer vent (in the appliance area) that needs zero cuts and and or elbows, its built like a slinky and extends 12 to 24 inches and bends for your turn, its pretty sturdy as well, with a cheesy fire rating but at least it has one.

 

[Rickster71]

100% correct,I have used tin snips most of my working days and Rick nailed it, his description of colored handle usage is perfect, there is not a particular color for a left handed or right handed user, although the different color tool may feel more comfortable to someone, I actually use the green handle mostly and they work great when you hold them upside down for the straight cuts, :
Lowes has a dryer vent (in the appliance area) that needs zero cuts and and or elbows, its built like a slinky and extends 12 to 24 inches and bends for your turn, its pretty sturdy as well, with a cheesy fire rating but at least it has one.

I've been looking for mauve or pomegranate handles for Alex.
If you know of any let me know; he needs some thing to cut corner bead.

 

[Alex2507]

I actually use the green handle mostly and they work great when you hold them upside down for the straight cuts.

That sounds crazy to me but whatever works I guess. The green are configured like left handed scissors and work well for left handed people. The yellow and red are configured the same way but the head is tilted on the reds allowing the handles to get out of the plane of the material being cut. I use the red ones upside down (usually) with the handles swapped to allow my thumb to slide further up.

Furthermore the Sears or Craftsman king are considerably sturdier but the Wiss work better for people with smaller hands ... and that's about it. Oh yeah ... give 'em a shot of WD-40 when they start to stick. I wish I knew this much about just about anything else.

I've been looking for mauve or pomegranate handles for Alex.
If you know of any let me know; he needs some thing to cut corner bead.

The tapers own that work.

 

[MDS]

If I remember right the fixed duct has a side that is crimped to make it slightly smaller so that it will fit into an un-crimped end. That's the side that you save and don't cut off. If the duct doesn't have an open seem that allows for tin snips to get in where you want to start cutting then just start on the un-crimped end. The cut-off will look like a long apple peel. Cut the peel looking part off the main duct every so often to keep it from being hard to deal with as you cut further into the duct.

Now that is something else that had me confused because I had read that the 'male' end needs to face in the direction of the air flow if you are joining multiple sections of pipe. The male end is the crimped end.

But here's the catch. I won't need to join two sections of pipe. I need to cut down a 24" pipe to about 13". If I leave the crimped end and orient it so that part is at the outside wall, then the replacement vent hoods for the outside won't fit because they come with a litle tail about 3" long, which is also crimped, and thus needs to go into the non-crimped end. If I put the crimped end so it comes out of the wall on the inside, then technically it would be wrong because the crimped end is supposed to point in the direction of airflow (although I suppose it doesn't matter because that supposedly applies only to the case where you join multiple sections to make a long run). Having the crimped end on the inside won't mate up with the flexible aluminum transition duct between the vent pipe and the dryer.

The old duct was not crimped on either side and the vent hood was not attached to the pipe at all. The vent hoods they sell with no attached pipe have a little 3" crimped end so must need to go into a non-crimped end. I need to cut off the crimped end so both ends are the same size.

If the duct with attached steel vent hood were 1.5" longer than it is, I wouldn't have to deal with any of this crap and I'd probably be done by now.

Both the rigid aluminum and galvanized steel ducts they sell are the type that are split down the center and have some kind of ridge that needs to be snapped together and then taped with aluminum tape. My next question is going to be...how on earth do you snap the seams together? I tried to do it in the store and I couldn't do it.

 

[MDS]

Lowes has a dryer vent (in the appliance area) that needs zero cuts and and or elbows, its built like a slinky and extends 12 to 24 inches and bends for your turn, its pretty sturdy as well, with a cheesy fire rating but at least it has one.

Most of them are 8 feet long, just compressed down to 24". However, I've learned that those are called 'transition' ducts and are only suitable for the inside of the house run from the vent pipe in the wall to the dryer. You cannot use them for the in-wall portion.

That's what I have currently from the wall to the dryer. Apparently it is not code and not recommended to use the lightweight foil or PVC type transition ducts although every store sells them.

 

[billy p]

You'd figure those transition or slinky style ducts are more susceptible to fire since they're closer to the heat source(ie:dryers). I understand why we use the heavy duty galvanized steel, but it's nowhere near the heat source so the code is backwards..imo..

Heh...and this is why I've never gone into business for myself doing handyman work...I'd be working for .50 cents an hour but the job would be perfect.....

 

[Alex2507]

I'm surprised that the exhaust hood has the crimp but there it is and you clearly know which end you'll have to cut to make it work so we'll move right past that.

My next question is going to be...how on earth do you snap the seams together? I tried to do it in the store and I couldn't do it.

Ask for a demo in the store. Somebody in there has to know something ... unless you're in a Lowes. Then it's a 50/50 shot. Maybe you need to pry open the places where you cut it and it got compressed by the snips? ... but you said you tried it in the store on a presumably uncut piece.

The business with the rating has to do with in wall stuff needing to be less likely to catch on fire or support flame. I know that in commercial settings those dryer vents get riveted so that lint doesn't catch on the screws.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I wasn't sure if you were kidding about being left handed or right handed, and using the corresponding snip?

So here is a bit of info on Aviation snips:
It more about the direction of the curved cut.

Left cutting snips are red cut straight and in a tight curve to the left.
Right cutting snips ( green) will cut straight and in a tight curve to the right
Straight cutting snips (generally have yellow colored soft grips) cut in a straight line and wide curves.

Any idea why they piked those colours? In the marine environment, red is port (left) and green is starboard (right). Coincedence? I think not....

 

[Alex2507]

Any idea why they piked those colours? In the marine environment, red is port (left) and green is starboard (right). Coincedence? I think not....

I thought it was because Russians were red and they were on the left.

Do you know why ambulances are red?

Because a ruler is 12 inches.
Queen Elizabeth is also a ruler.
Queen Elizabeth is also a ship.
Ships sail on the sea.
There are fish in the sea.
Russians eat fish.
Russians are red.
Ambulances are red cause they're always Russian around.

 

[MDS]

When the going gets tough...the tough procrastinate. That is why these little projects take me forever.

I bought the galvanized duct and it turns out it's not really all that hard to snap together. You have to bend it down and just get it in the groove slightly on one end and then work your way down pressing together as you go.

I also bought the yellow aviation snips (straight cut). Worked fine but clearly I'm not too good with them as the edge is a bit ragged (Alex's paper trick was ideal for marking a line on the duct for where to cut). I'll either file the edge down to be more smooth or spend another $4 for a new pipe and go again.

Hey it's a learning process, but that's enough learning for today. I hope to complete all this stuff sometime in the next week and I also hope I'll never have to use what I learned about dryer vents and cutting your own ducts ever again.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
I also bought the yellow aviation snips (straight cut). Worked fine but clearly I'm not too good with them as the edge is a bit ragged (Alex's paper trick was ideal for marking a line on the duct for where to cut). I'll either file the edge down to be more smooth or spend another $4 for a new pipe and go again.

Hey it's a learning process, but that's enough learning for today. I hope to complete all this stuff sometime in the next week and I also hope I'll never have to use what I learned about dryer vents and cutting your own ducts ever again.

I wouldn't buy another section. File it then tape the joint enough with the aluminum tape. It is hidden after all. And I won't be inspecting.