Heos Thoughts

[Audiosaur]

I'd like the same audio upstairs that is playing through my Denon 4300 in the main zone downstairs. Wiring for a zone 2 is too tough to tackle, though. So I'm looking for thoughts on Heos.

I could just buy Heos speakers, of course, but they're not inexpensive. I considered the Heos amp and getting a pair of bookshelf speakers (maybe Phil Audio AAs) but $500 for a 2-ch amp also seems costly. Most recently, I'm considering buying a lower model refurbished AVR with built-in Heos to use with speakers. I could get the AVR and AAs for the price of the Heos amp and get a lot more functionality. In fact, from the second AVR, I could run wire to multiple rooms upstairs and use multi-zone stereo. My question to those of you who know Heos, will the AVR approach work? That is, will I be able to select it as a Heos zone via the app to get the same music playing throughout the house?

If anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear that too.

 

[sholling]

I've never heard Heos speakers because they're too pricey for me. Budget vs sound quality requirements vs ease of setup always comes into play in these decisions. Since I've never heard Heos speakers I can't really comment other than tell you to read the Amazon reviews.

I'm using Amazon Echo Dots with cheap ($99) powered stereo speakers in two rooms, a Dot in another in my living room driving good powered studio monitors ($200/pr), another in my garage driving big cheap powered speakers - all connected via Alexa's multi-room music function. It's not perfect but it's cheap (<$150/room with the Edifiers) and gives me the same music in stereo in every room. The Dot's have access to Amazon's 256bit MP3 quality music. On the other hand, the Edifiers are limited to 70-17,000hz +-6db and have limited volume due to their small size, to me they're plenty good enough for background music but not critical listening. I've even experimented with plugging a Dot's output into inputs on my AVRs (mics muted) and while it works as a solution it's a bit too kludgy for my taste since I also use Dots for other things. Maybe not an elegant all in one plug and play speaker solution but it does give you what you're looking for on the cheap.

 

[Montucky]

I've mostly heard good things about the Heos. They tried to go up against the more popular Sonos and have some pros/cons versus them. One of the BIG pros to me is the support for hi-res music that Sonos lacks, although that probably won't matter on the wireless speakers anyway. It could matter if you're playing it through your own amp/speakers. One of the drawbacks is its use of wi-fi versus Sonos' "Mesh Network," so network dependability might not be quite as solid, but I haven't heard of any problems either way. I've also heard the app isn't nearly to the level of Sonos', but I've also heard it's come a long way since its inception.

Personally, I'd give it a shot and see what you think. It's my understanding that Heos is the way to go when sound quality is paramount to the other factors.

 

[highfigh]

I'd like the same audio upstairs that is playing through my Denon 4300 in the main zone downstairs. Wiring for a zone 2 is too tough to tackle, though. So I'm looking for thoughts on Heos.

I could just buy Heos speakers, of course, but they're not inexpensive. I considered the Heos amp and getting a pair of bookshelf speakers (maybe Phil Audio AAs) but $500 for a 2-ch amp also seems costly. Most recently, I'm considering buying a lower model refurbished AVR with built-in Heos to use with speakers. I could get the AVR and AAs for the price of the Heos amp and get a lot more functionality. In fact, from the second AVR, I could run wire to multiple rooms upstairs and use multi-zone stereo. My question to those of you who know Heos, will the AVR approach work? That is, will I be able to select it as a Heos zone via the app to get the same music playing throughout the house?

If anyone has a better idea, I'd love to hear that too.

If you can run wires upstairs, why can't you run them downstairs?

Choose whatever is in your price range- using another HEOS device or even the speaker outputs from the 4300 would work fine- I'm using a 4300 in a house as the replacement fro the AVR I installed 11 years ago, partially because that one is 11 years old and only had two HDMI inputs, the AV sections are out of date and because the house music system needed some updates. ANY HEOS device can be grouped with the 4300, the 4300 can be added to another HEOS device, or they can be left to do whatever else is needed. I have this one set up so the remote for the House music doesn't interfere with the Den, which is where AV is used and it works great. I'm using Zone 2 in stereo with variable level, feeding the in-ceiling speakers in the kitchen with only a couple of inputs (one, comes from the preamp used for the House system, the other is CD input, which is fed by an Echo Dot, for playing music that's voice-controlled. HEOS can be used in there, as well- it takes over the zone selected after pressing the house icon. Zone 3 is used to feed the power amps used for the House Music system, which covers several rooms and I have it set as fixed level, to avoid having the preamp AND the Zone 3 volume controls set too low and me getting trouble calls.

They have an AV system on the 3rd floor and for the garage/garden which are out of earshot of the main floor, but I do have an audio feed going up there, so they can have the same music playing everywhere. However, with good WiFi signal, they can be outside and still control HEOS.

If you haven't downloaded the HEOS app for your smart phone or tablet, do it- you'll want to become familiar with it before making a decision.

If you just can't run wires from the 4300, using another HEOS receiver or the HEOS Link with a separate power amp (for more power) is probably the best way- any source selected by the Main HEOS zone can be heard in the other HEOS zones and you can rename all of them, as needed.

Switching between HEOS and the Echo using its 3.5mm jack with the same music shows the Echo Dot lacking in sound quality, but it's not bad- I boosted the Zone 2 bass a little and it made enough of a difference that nobody has made any negative comments. I will say that the Sonos speakers sound good, but when I set up a HEOS 5 for someone who was unable to (long story), I backed off the bass setting- it was sitting on one of my speakers, about 2' from the back wall, ~3' from the back wall and ~35" from the floor. It was definitely louder than a Sonos and it didn't sound distorted. The HEOS speakers also have inputs for Aux In, Bluetooth, USB and an ethernet port. If you want a smaller speaker in a room (great for bathrooms and other small areas), the HEOS 1 can be used with the accessory battery pack.

In addition, if you want to replace on-wall speakers but don't want to be required to install an outlet for the power cord (needed for Sonos and Yamaha's MusicCast speakers, the HEOS 1 can be powered via the speaker wire (CL-2 or CL-3 rated- don't use zip cord for this because it's not rated for in-wall/in-ceiling applications). The appropriate plug is needed at the speaker and a matching jack at the power supply- these are available from Parts Express and other parts suppliers. The others require an outlet or an extension cord dangling from the speaker.

 

[highfigh]

I've mostly heard good things about the Heos. They tried to go up against the more popular Sonos and have some pros/cons versus them. One of the BIG pros to me is the support for hi-res music that Sonos lacks, although that probably won't matter on the wireless speakers anyway. It could matter if you're playing it through your own amp/speakers. One of the drawbacks is its use of wi-fi versus Sonos' "Mesh Network," so network dependability might not be quite as solid, but I haven't heard of any problems either way. I've also heard the app isn't nearly to the level of Sonos', but I've also heard it's come a long way since its inception.

Personally, I'd give it a shot and see what you think. It's my understanding that Heos is the way to go when sound quality is paramount to the other factors.

All of the HEOS devices can be hard-wired- it's better than WiFi, anyway. Also, if Sonos are too close to other WiFi equipment, a broadcast storm can result and nothing on the wireless network works well, in that case- even if the first Sonos are hard-wired. They (Sonos tech support) don't like this, but the WiFi can be turned off.

The app works fine. It's a bit different, but it's easy to use.

 

[Richard Berg]

All of the HEOS devices can be hard-wired- it's better than WiFi, anyway.

+++

I never use Wifi for devices that don't move. Even in rental apartments, proper wiring or bust.

 

[Montucky]

All of the HEOS devices can be hard-wired- it's better than WiFi, anyway. Also, if Sonos are too close to other WiFi equipment, a broadcast storm can result and nothing on the wireless network works well, in that case- even if the first Sonos are hard-wired. They (Sonos tech support) don't like this, but the WiFi can be turned off.

True that! Hardwired is definitely the way to go when that's an option. Personally, I'm using a Sonos Boost, which I believe runs on a different frequency that standard wifi, so I haven't had any issues whatsoever with my Sonos gear, even in areas with insane wifi congestion. That said, I HAVE seen issues with other people's units without the Boost. Hardwiring ALWAYS seems to rectify any network woes, that's for sure. Since both Sonos and Heos require wifi from the control device to the router anyway, I guess the mesh network is not that big a deal in the end if you're hard wired.

 

[highfigh]

True that! Hardwired is definitely the way to go when that's an option. Personally, I'm using a Sonos Boost, which I believe runs on a different frequency that standard wifi, so I haven't had any issues whatsoever with my Sonos gear, even in areas with insane wifi congestion. That said, I HAVE seen issues with other people's units without the Boost. Hardwiring ALWAYS seems to rectify any network woes, that's for sure. Since both Sonos and Heos require wifi from the control device to the router anyway, I guess the mesh network is not that big a deal in the end if you're hard wired.

HEOS doesn't require it but it can be wired if the signal isn't sufficient to provide enough speed/throughput. Sonos seems to work best if the first device is wired and the others can be wireless, if the building will allow it.

Their reason for using their own mesh network is that it doesn't add any demands on the WiFi- it connects through the router/switch port.

 

[Audiosaur]

If you can run wires upstairs, why can't you run them downstairs?

Getting from downstairs to upstairs is the issue. There's a bunch of HVAC ducting between floors above my main zone closet, not to mention having to go through header and footer. The thought of cutting into that wall intimidates me, to be honest. I've considered calling a local pro... Maybe I should get a quote. I know wires are the ideal.

Anyway, thanks for the comprehensive reply. That's the kind of detail I was hoping for!

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Audiosaur,

You don’t have to feel “stuck” with HEOS just because you already have a Denon AVR. Basically, all you need is transmitter / receiver rig, utilizing the 4300’s Zone 2 outputs. Then you can use any outboard amplifier and speakers you like.

Unfortunately, at this time “budget” and “wireless” are virtually mutually exclusive, at least as far as anything with stability and high-fidelity is concerned. You might want to review this piece I recently did on the subject, discussing the various options. It’s more specifically related to wireless surround speakers, but is fully relevant to what you’re trying to accomplish with a multiroom system. The primary take-away is it that the systems with rock-solid reliability aren’t cheap, and as the price drops, so does reliability.

Bottom line, you may ultimately conclude HEOS is the way to go, but at least it’s good to know you have options.

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/wireless-speakers-for-surround-sound-don’t-ask-it’s-a-mess.2057/

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[Audiosaur]

Unfortunately, at this time “budget” and “wireless” are virtually mutually exclusive, at least as far as anything with stability and high-fidelity is concerned. You might want to review this piece I recently did on the subject, discussing the various options. It’s more specifically related to wireless surround speakers, but is fully relevant to what you’re trying to accomplish with a multiroom system. The primary take-away is it that the systems with rock-solid reliability aren’t cheap, and as the price drops, so does reliability.

Bottom line, you may ultimately conclude HEOS is the way to go, but at least it’s good to know you have options.

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/wireless-speakers-for-surround-sound-don’t-ask-it’s-a-mess.2057/

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Thank you for the very helpful reply, Wayne. I liked your article!

Not sure which direction I'll go yet. I've got some thinking to do. I'll probably get a pro quote for wiring upstairs just to compare.

I'll be back with updates....

 

[highfigh]

Getting from downstairs to upstairs is the issue. There's a bunch of HVAC ducting between floors above my main zone closet, not to mention having to go through header and footer. The thought of cutting into that wall intimidates me, to be honest. I've considered calling a local pro... Maybe I should get a quote. I know wires are the ideal.

Anyway, thanks for the comprehensive reply. That's the kind of detail I was hoping for!

If your house is more than about 20 years old OR it's old enough to have been built for a heating system that's not super efficient, look at the framing for the chimney- our code in WI called for a 2" gap between any combustible materials and the masonry for a fireplace/furnace and it was often stuffed with fiberglass, sometimes, not. If you have this gap, you should be able to place a conduit that goes from the lowest point to the attic (assuming you have one) or you may be able to come out of the wall next to it- usually, chimneys are adjacent to a closet. Even if this isn't where the cabling needs to be, it's a good place to work from in order to distribute the wiring.

 

[highfigh]

Audiosaur,

You don’t have to feel “stuck” with HEOS just because you already have a Denon AVR. Basically, all you need is transmitter / receiver rig, utilizing the 4300’s Zone 2 outputs. Then you can use any outboard amplifier and speakers you like.

Unfortunately, at this time “budget” and “wireless” are virtually mutually exclusive, at least as far as anything with stability and high-fidelity is concerned. You might want to review this piece I recently did on the subject, discussing the various options. It’s more specifically related to wireless surround speakers, but is fully relevant to what you’re trying to accomplish with a multiroom system. The primary take-away is it that the systems with rock-solid reliability aren’t cheap, and as the price drops, so does reliability.

Bottom line, you may ultimately conclude HEOS is the way to go, but at least it’s good to know you have options.

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/wireless-speakers-for-surround-sound-don’t-ask-it’s-a-mess.2057/

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

HEOS is built in- why buy anything else to replace it if it works (and it does)? The HEOS app allows turning HEOS on in any of the AVR's zones and it's a lot easier than using the Denon app, then bouncing to the HEOS app, then to some kind of third party control app. Also, the HEOS app allows choosing any AVR input as the source, in any of its zones.

If the wireless transmitter/receiver use Bluetooth, I guarantee that range will be an issue. WiFi range can be improved pretty easily and grouping speakers is a lot easier with network devices since BT only allows one connection at a time.

One thing online shopping has made unlikely- going somewhere and seeing HEOS in action.

 

[Montucky]

HEOS is built in- why buy anything else to replace it if it works (and it does)? The HEOS app allows turning HEOS on in any of the AVR's zones and it's a lot easier than using the Denon app, then bouncing to the HEOS app, then to some kind of third party control app. Also, the HEOS app allows choosing any AVR input as the source, in any of its zones.

If the wireless transmitter/receiver use Bluetooth, I guarantee that range will be an issue. WiFi range can be improved pretty easily and grouping speakers is a lot easier with network devices since BT only allows one connection at a time.

One thing online shopping has made unlikely- going somewhere and seeing HEOS in action.

Good point. And a good selling point for Heos if he has a Denon receiver with built-in support. Kind of like matching up the Yamaha MusicCast products if you have a Yamaha AVR. They all seem to play with their own teams REALLY well.

 

[Bryce_H]

I have a Denon X-4300H and went through this a bit ago. Bottom line - I got a Sonos Play 5. For me the deciding factors were:
1) I would use the extra (i.e. Sonos) speaker without the Denon being fired up
2) I found several reviews that came up with a draw, but mentioned some of the things noted above (Sonos better app)
3) At the time the Sonos was a touch cheaper at the time

I have been really happy with the sonos...I have it linked to my plex music library on my NAS, play SirusXM and Amazon Prime music through it

 

[highfigh]

Good point. And a good selling point for Heos if he has a Denon receiver with built-in support. Kind of like matching up the Yamaha MusicCast products if you have a Yamaha AVR. They all seem to play with their own teams REALLY well.

I was contacted by a neighbor of a very good client, to talk to his friend about some AV equipment and installation. They didn't wait for me to call more than a day before going to the dealer where the first guy bought his equipment, but we arranged to meet the following Saturday. He gave me the equipment list and asked if I could beat the price and I saw that the other place had spec'd a Yamaha Aventage AVR, but also a couple of Sonos Connect units. I told him there was no real reason to use Sonos when MusicCast does the same and it will control the AVR, to some extent. I brought my WXC-50 over to demo and it cut a lot of money off of the project.

The problem at this house- the contractor that wired it for AV and network really, really dropped the ball. They didn't secure cables as they went along the underside of the first floor, they appear to have dead-ended some bundled cables in the attic rather than run enough and they left bundled cable below the fridge, which has upper and lower cabinets, the upper being the location of the existing AVR, cable box and BD player. I needed to send cables to the adjacent Dining Room for speakers & sub and I wanted to add an ethernet cable. When I had initially looked at the place, I found the bundle hanging behind the door. I removed the lower drawers, chucked a long drill bit and drilled down- when I was through the floor, I went down to look into the joist spaces for my bit, but couldn't see it. I did a few measurements and drilled a 1" hole in the ceiling, then pushed my scope camera in, saw my drill bit and after determining that the space between the drywall and cabinet had no obstructions, fed my cables and trimmed it out. I put one MusicCast in the Kitchen and another in the Sun Room, both having older receivers that didn't have this ability.

The network is still a nightmare and he doesn't seem to be too interested in getting rid of his Apple network stuff, which makes it the nightmare it is. The fact that I couldn't read continuity from several cables to the enclosure in the basement and the many mis-labeled cables hasn't made it any easier, either.

 

[highfigh]

I have a Denon X-4300H and went through this a bit ago. Bottom line - I got a Sonos Play 5. For me the deciding factors were:
1) I would use the extra (i.e. Sonos) speaker without the Denon being fired up
2) I found several reviews that came up with a draw, but mentioned some of the things noted above (Sonos better app)
3) At the time the Sonos was a touch cheaper at the time

I have been really happy with the sonos...I have it linked to my plex music library on my NAS, play SirusXM and Amazon Prime music through it

If your Main zone is on but not turned up, was the benefit that it cost less in energy? That hardly offsets the added cost of the Sonos. App is better? How is that working for you, now that Sonos came out with an "update" that required another update in a couple of weeks because so many people couldn't operate it with their existing phones and tablets?

Cheaper? The HEOS Link and Link Amp are, and always have been, less expensive (unless there was some special discount) than the Sonos equivalent and if you look at what each does, the HEOS offers more.

Try the HEOS app- you might be surprised by how easy it is to use. If you're never trying to listen to music in more zones and trying to control them in one app, your Sonos is a good choice but if you need to cover more areas and control them more easily, especially if you want the sound to be synchronized, you need to use one platform.

 

[Montucky]

I brought my WXC-50 over to demo and it cut a lot of money off of the project.

That little WXC-50 is SUCH a little rock star. Same with the WXA-50. Man, Yamaha packed a ton into that little unit. Definitely one of my favorite streaming preamps on the market for sure. Well priced too! I'm kind of surprised that the WXC/A-50s haven't gained more attention out there.

When MusicCast came out, the app had a lot to be desired, and it was no contest between them and Sonos, but Yamaha has improved the app by leaps and bounds since then. Still not quite as easy for the laymen, and still not as many music service natively, but infinitely more configurable. I like it a lot.

 

[highfigh]

That little WXC-50 is SUCH a little rock star. Same with the WXA-50. Man, Yamaha packed a ton into that little unit. Definitely one of my favorite streaming preamps on the market for sure. Well priced too! I'm kind of surprised that the WXC/A-50s haven't gained more attention out there.

When MusicCast came out, the app had a lot to be desired, and it was no contest between them and Sonos, but Yamaha has improved the app by leaps and bounds since then. Still not quite as easy for the laymen, and still not as many music service natively, but infinitely more configurable. I like it a lot.

I still think I like the sound of HEOS more- the enhancer in the MusicCast is pretty noticeable as an octave note that comes in a bit late. Since I do custom, I'm always looking for additional inputs, outputs, triggers, etc- the MusicCast and HEOS provide them and that's why I don't use Sonos as my go to. However, if someone uses a bunch of Sonos and want to integrate it into a multi-zone system, Parasound came out with a dock for four Connect units that includes a 12V trigger, full range/high pass/low pass outputs in mono and stereo with level controls as well as a digital coax and optical inputs for each zone.

Just in case anyone is interested.

http://www.parasound.com/4DAX.php

OTOH, Denon has a four zone HEOS piece that's amplified.

 

[highfigh]

I've never heard Heos speakers because they're too pricey for me. Budget vs sound quality requirements vs ease of setup always comes into play in these decisions. Since I've never heard Heos speakers I can't really comment other than tell you to read the Amazon reviews.

I'm using Amazon Echo Dots with cheap ($99) powered stereo speakers in two rooms, a Dot in another in my living room driving good powered studio monitors ($200/pr), another in my garage driving big cheap powered speakers - all connected via Alexa's multi-room music function. It's not perfect but it's cheap (<$150/room with the Edifiers) and gives me the same music in stereo in every room. The Dot's have access to Amazon's 256bit MP3 quality music. On the other hand, the Edifiers are limited to 70-17,000hz +-6db and have limited volume due to their small size, to me they're plenty good enough for background music but not critical listening. I've even experimented with plugging a Dot's output into inputs on my AVRs (mics muted) and while it works as a solution it's a bit too kludgy for my taste since I also use Dots for other things. Maybe not an elegant all in one plug and play speaker solution but it does give you what you're looking for on the cheap.

One thing the Dot does is send AND receive Bluetooth, so that's a plus. As I posted, the Dot doesn't sound as good when plugged into the system, but the zones have a bass and treble control- the Main zone is the Den, which has the AVRX-4300H and 5.1 Dynaudio Audience speakers with their Sub250 subwoofer, so bass isn't a problem. The rest of the house has: Dynaudio Excite 34 in the living room, fed by an Audio Research VT-150 power amp, the Sun Room and foyer have Dynaudio Audience 42 bookshelf speakers, the Kitchen just got a pair of Dynaudio's new in-ceiling speakers (which impressed the hell out of me!), the landing to the 2nd floor has a pair of Dynaudio M8 (I think that's the model) and the Dining room has a pair of Snell that he inherited from his dad. The house speakers are all fed by a McIntosh MC-300 and a Parasound P5 preamp.

I included all of the last stuff to say this- when the Dot is the source, nobody complains about sound quality and I have that connecting to the preamp on Belden 8451 mic/line cable that's about 50' long with no filters, isolators or baluns.