Help with overall setup

[22fan399]

I have been doing a lot of research and keep tinkering with settings of my system but I am just not really to happy with the way things are. Who knows maybe its actually the best its going to be with what I have for equipment. I appreciate any help provided.

The room is a dining room and living room attached each other. The overall room size is 12x27 but actual size to work with is 12x12 with a 9ft ceiling. With the opening to the other room to the left side of the tv.
My equipment is as follows
Vizio P659-G1
Denon AVR-X3500H
Nvidia shield
Xbox one s
Speakers are all Klipsh except for the sub which is JBL and are as follows with crossover settings
RF-62 Floor speaks 60hz
RC-52 Center 100hz
R-15M Rear 80hz
R-41SA Atmos 100hz specifications for the speaker say (Conforms to Dolby Atmos Specifications)
JBL PB10 sub LFE+main 80hz

Everything is presently ran into the Denon and then to the TV using HDMI cables. All speakers are connected using 16gauge wire, Except for the sub. Nothing is ran in the walls.
In the Denon settings, all speakers are set to small. Crossover settings are all set to 10 above the lowest settings based on the specs of the speakers.
The atmos speakers are presently upwards firing on top of the floor speakers. The way the windows are where I live they cannot be mounted high.
The floor speakers are set about six inches wider that the width of the tv.
The rears are on the edges of the 12x12 space and firing sideways towards the ears.
All of the speaker distances are dead on accurate.
I originally ran the Denon Audyssey MultEQ XT and was not happy with the setup so I checked its settings and the distances where off so I changed them to be accurate. I have also been playing with crossover settings.

Main problem I am having is with the rears and the atmos. Both of them seem to be barely noticeable. I previously had the same speakers minus the atmos running on the Denon avr2100 and everything sounded fine. If I switch to all channel stereo the rears become noticeable(I only do this when listening to music).
So my questions are
1) Should I have everything running to the denon to the tv or should I run everything to the tv and then use the ARC back to the amp? The shield upscales everything to 4k if needed and the xbox plays 4k
2) I know upward facing atmos are not ideal but I have heard some that sound decent, so I think I have something set wrong. What am I missing here?
3) should I keep all speakers set to small?
4) are crossover settings good or should they be changed?
5) what else should I look at? if I did not list it.

addition settings if needed
graphic eq - off
cinema eq - off
loudness management - on
Dynamic compression - off
center spread - off

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Leemix]

JBL PB10 sub LFE+main 80hz

1) Should I have everything running to the denon to the tv or should I run everything to the tv and then use the ARC back to the amp? The shield upscales everything to 4k if needed and the xbox plays 4k
2) I know upward facing atmos are not ideal but I have heard some that sound decent, so I think I have something set wrong. What am I missing here?
3) should I keep all speakers set to small?
4) are crossover settings good or should they be changed?
5) what else should I look at? if I did not list it.

addition settings if needed
graphic eq - off
cinema eq - off
loudness management - on
Dynamic compression - off
center spread - off

Any help is greatly appreciated.

What do you mean LFE+Main 80hz, did you set the LPF on LFE to 80 instead of 120 as is the default?
Its supposed to be at 120 unless you have a very good reason not to, its not a crossover for the sub as such.

1. Yes everything to the Denon
3. Yes keep as small. (It just means bass management: on)
4. Crossovers should often be set with a good margin so 10Hz above the lower on specs may not be good, try 80/100/120 and see.

5.
Have you configured you “rears” as “rear surrounds” because they dont exist unless you run 7 base layer speakers, as in surrounds AND rear surrounds. Plug them into the surrounds outputs and redo measurements unless you have surrounds connected already.

Distance isnt distance its time so the auto setup usually do that much better than we do with a measuring tape or laser. Especially on subs which often have a little extra delay from internal DSP.(if it has DSP it needs to be set to farther away then actual physical distance)

Loudness management OFF unless you are listening at night and dont want to bother others, it compresses the signal a lot.

Edit: just hit post too early so had to edit in.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Leemix]

Also after setup is done you can increase the sub volume in the AVR by 3 to 6dB and see if you like that, most do this or there is too little bass.
(Try and keep the sub AVR volume in the negatives so if you have the sub set at -9dB after setup increase it to -6dB or even -3dB, if the sub is set close to 0dB or in the positives increase the volume on the sub itself a little and re-run the auto setup until its between -11dB and -6dB.)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[22fan399]

What do you mean LFE+Main 80hz, did you set the LPF on LFE to 80 instead of 120 as is the default?
Its supposed to be at 120 unless you have a very good reason not to, its not a crossover for the sub as such.

The LFE+main is the sub woofer mode meaning it plays all low range signal and LFE signals of all channels. This is a setting I did not touch.
I'll change it back to 120.
Should I leave it as LFE+Main? or change it to LFE only

1. Yes everything to the Denon
3. Yes keep as small. (It just means bass management: on)
4. Crossovers should often be set with a good margin so 10Hz above the lower on specs may not be good, try 80/100/120 and see.
I will change them all to 80 and go from there if that is what you meant
5.
Have you configured you “rears” as “rear surrounds” because they dont exist unless you run 7 base layer speakers, as in surrounds AND rear surrounds. Plug them into the surrounds outputs and redo measurements unless you have surrounds connected already.
Yes this is the way its set up. I stated they are rears but its setup this way. The atmos takes up the rear channel on the AVR3500

Distance isnt distance its time so the auto setup usually do that much better than we do with a measuring tape or laser. Especially on subs which often have a little extra delay from internal DSP.(if it has DSP it needs to be set to farther away then actual physical distance)

I will rerun the auto setup to get the distances set again

Loudness management OFF unless you are listening at night and dont want to bother others, it compresses the signal a lot.
I think I was asked during setup about this and said yes

Edit: just hit post too early so had to edit in.
Also after setup is done you can increase the sub volume in the AVR by 3 to 6dB and see if you like that, most do this or there is too little bass.
(Try and keep the sub AVR volume in the negatives so if you have the sub set at -9dB after setup increase it to -6dB or even -3dB, if the sub is set close to 0dB or in the positives increase the volume on the sub itself a little and re-run the auto setup until its between -11dB and -6dB.)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Here is all of the speaker volumes and this is something I have never touched.
Sub -5.0
Front L -4.0
Center +1.0
Front R -3.5
Surround R -5.5
Surround L -5.5
Atmos R 0.0
Atmos L 0.0

 

[Leemix]

LFE only yes but as long as speakers are set to small it might work the same anyway unless you use direct modes. Still LFE only is a good idea unless LFE+Main is used for a specific reason.

So the surrounds are set up correctly, thats good, if you want to hear them more you can try to increase the volume a dB or so and see if you prefer that.

You can increase the volume(gain) on the back of the sub a little to get a little lower then -5dB to have a little more room to bump after and still stay in the negative.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you might give Audyssey another shot. Use DEQ and its associated setting RLO (Reference Level Offset) for differences in movies to music....

Leemix mentioned the other stuff I was curious about. I forget what LFE+Main does when you set speakers to small, off to refresh my memory.....

 

[lovinthehd]

Forgot to ask, why do you have the L/R speakers that close to the tv?

 

[22fan399]

LFE only yes but as long as speakers are set to small it might work the same anyway unless you use direct modes. Still LFE only is a good idea unless LFE+Main is used for a specific reason.
I switched it to LFE only and now the bass sounds way better

So the surrounds are set up correctly, thats good, if you want to hear them more you can try to increase the volume a dB or so and see if you prefer that.
I went in and listened to the test tones and both the atmos and surrounds were barely noticeable, so upping the volume helped

You can increase the volume(gain) on the back of the sub a little to get a little lower then -5dB to have a little more room to bump after and still stay in the negative.
Just switching to LFE only the bass is definitely more pronounced


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[22fan399]

I think you might give Audyssey another shot. Use DEQ and its associated setting RLO (Reference Level Offset) for differences in movies to music....
I am going to rerun the Audyssey and then adjust the volume settings from there if needed
Leemix mentioned the other stuff I was curious about. I forget what LFE+Main does when you set speakers to small, off to refresh my memory.....
Forgot to ask, why do you have the L/R speakers that close to the tv?
This was done this way because of room aesthetics ie; location of switches on wall and windows and other decor. I know this is not ideal, its especially noticeable when something on a movie is sweeping through the screen. Like a car or plane.
What is the ideal setup for these? The most I can move then each away from the tv is about and foot or two.

 

[lovinthehd]

Another question, when you used Audyssey did you use only the avr based setup or did you use the Audyssey Editor App?

You might find this info from Audyssey helpful with DEQ/RLO https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

I saw you had somewhat a narrow room but I like to have my L/R speakers to have some separation, and tend to aim at an equilateral triangle between the speakers and my main seat, maybe a bit further back at the seat from that point. Rooms are often full of compromises for aesthetics or just real life use....and just using a tv generally forces a less than ideal design for center speakers (ideal would be same speaker for L/R/C).

 

[22fan399]

Another question, when you used Audyssey did you use only the avr based setup or did you use the Audyssey Editor App?

You might find this info from Audyssey helpful with DEQ/RLO https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

I saw you had somewhat a narrow room but I like to have my L/R speakers to have some separation, and tend to aim at an equilateral triangle between the speakers and my main seat, maybe a bit further back at the seat from that point. Rooms are often full of compromises for aesthetics or just real life use....and just using a tv generally forces a less than ideal design for center speakers (ideal would be same speaker for L/R/C).

I just used the avr based setup I did not even know there was an app I can use. As of right now I cant find the cardboard tripod for trying the setup again. I need to get(borrow) a tripod so I can rerun the setup. I am still not happy with the atmos, even with adjusting the volume.

 

[lovinthehd]

Those cardboard things aren't much use anyways. I use a mic boom.

 

[lovinthehd]

Try these threads relating to use of the app

The Audyssey MultEQ Editor app users thread (with facts and tips)

There are a few such threads already, but no users/or owners thread that I am aware of, so I thought it may be better to have one for the users. This thread is for MultEQ users in general, so it is not limited to Denon and Marantz product owners in case users of other brands may be interested...

forums.audioholics.com

Audyssey Editor App- With Screenshots!

I just ran Audyssey through the app editor (after already having run it on setup o_O) and there were some hiccups, both by me and the app itself. However, after some minor frustration and rebooting once or twice I got it done and got some pretty good screenies of my measurements. Since I am a...

forums.audioholics.com

 

[22fan399]

Those cardboard things aren't much use anyways. I use a mic boom.

Didnt have a boom mic but I did find a tripod and ran the Audyssey again. It made a world of difference.