Help with Basement Speaker Layout and Brand Selection

[matt_ht]

We will be finishing our basement and planning to have a media room. The media room is 20' x 16' with 9 foot high ceilings. You can see in the image the entire space will be more open, where the front of the media room is the basement foundation and the back of the room is open floor space with a planned wet bar.

Speaker placement can be seen in the image with the 'S' in the center of a square icon.

• Planning a 5.1.4 speaker configuration but figured I'd run wire for a 7.2.4 setup.
  • The front right/left/center would be floor standing
  • The rear speakers would be in-ceiling
  • The left/right surround speakers would be hung on the wall although may opt for in-wall.
  • Should the placement be adjusted for any of the speakers?
• Should I place a sub woofer in front as well as in the back? Would 2 sub woofer's be overkill for the room dimensions?
• I'm considering a 120" projector screen with the viewing distance at 12 feet. Is that too close or just right? I do not think I could go to a 135" screen with a viewing distance at 12 feet but I could be wrong. The other image is the planned media cabinet.
• I'm leaning towards Definitive Technology speakers within their BP9000 series. I have not selected any in-ceiling/in-wall speakers yet.
  • Would I need an additional amp to power these speakers in a 5.1.4 setup?
  • Any other brand that is worth exploring?
• The wet bar area will have 2 in-ceiling speakers but not directly overhead of the island. Any alternative placement option? The speakers would be powered by a Sonos Connect:Amp.
• The room above the media room is our kitchen. Would it be suggested to insulate the basement ceiling to mitigate noise?
• Any other suggestions?

Thank you for any thoughts!

 

[mtrycrafts]

Welcome to AH

Others will give you great inputs but a couple of things caught my eyes. Your front L/R speakers seems to be way too far apart at 20 ft or so.
If I can interpret your drawing, it seems the side speakers are in front of the main seating couch, a no-no.
It needs to be at least the 90 degree position but is best a bit towards the back up to 110 degrees.
The rears should also be closer together with more distance behind the main seating if I located the right symbols.
Where are the Atmos speakers?
Yes, 2 subs would be great in that large space.

Actually, maybe you could redraw the plan with just the seating, screen and planned speaker locations and clearly identify the speakers.

 

[matt_ht]

Thanks for your suggestions. I’ll cleanup the layout tonight and repost it.

 

[matt_ht]

I updated the layout in the image called basement_01_new.jpg.
Would you recommend the subs to be placed in opposite corners?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

This is an interesting room. I would put both subs up front if possible, but sometimes opposite corners can work well. As mentioned, the side surrounds should not be in front of the LP, and the Atmos speakers also need to be moved back and centered over the LP like this, or forgo them.

and

You mentioned rear speakers being in ceiling. Which ones exactly? If you mean rear surrounds as in when you go to 7.1.4, I wouldn’t do that, as the hight differential between the listener level speakers and ceiling speakers is why atmos works. I would move the Atmos locations back a little and maybe move the couch forward a little. That way you can get the surrounds at least at 90deg. I wouldn’t pursue 7ch. 5.1.4 will be great, and I don’t see a good location for rear surrounds. Could you add the original diagram back to the thread? I was hoping to see what to do with the surround speakers.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I updated the layout in the image called basement_01_new.jpg.
Would you recommend the subs to be placed in opposite corners?

Thanks. Much better drawing.
You need to relocate the Atmos and side speakers though, totally ineffective.
I would bring the rears closer together and further back if possible. How would this be mounted, in ceiling or on a mount and hanging down?

 

[fuzz092888]

I agree with mtry, your left and right are wayyyy too far apart. As you can see from the diagrams William posted your atmos speakers aren't set up correctly.

IIRC the atmos setup is also compatible with DTSX. Do you have any plans for Auro 3D? If so then additional thought needs to go into speaker placement since Auro and Atmos are a little bit at odds with each other.

 

[matt_ht]

This is an interesting room. I would put both subs up front if possible, but sometimes opposite corners can work well. As mentioned, the side surrounds should not be in front of the LP, and the Atmos speakers also need to be moved back and centered over the LP like this, or forgo them.

and

You mentioned rear speakers being in ceiling. Which ones exactly? If you mean rear surrounds as in when you go to 7.1.4, I wouldn’t do that, as the hight differential between the listener level speakers and ceiling speakers is why atmos works. I would move the Atmos locations back a little and maybe move the couch forward a little. That way you can get the surrounds at least at 90deg. I wouldn’t pursue 7ch. 5.1.4 will be great, and I don’t see a good location for rear surrounds. Could you add the original diagram back to the thread? I was hoping to see what to do with the surround speakers.

Thanks for the insight. Yes, the rear surrounds would be in-ceiling as there is not another good placement for them which I'd agree only considering 5.1.4.

 

[matt_ht]

Thanks. Much better drawing.
You need to relocate the Atmos and side speakers though, totally ineffective.
I would bring the rears closer together and further back if possible. How would this be mounted, in ceiling or on a mount and hanging down?

Rear surrounds would be in-ceiling but likely would not go with rear-surrounds anymore
Atmos would be in-ceiling
Side surrounds would be in-wall (unless you're thinking otherwise). Given the placement of the couches, in-wall would be better.
L/R/Center would be freestanding/floor standing

 

[matt_ht]

I agree with mtry, your left and right are wayyyy too far apart. As you can see from the diagrams William posted your atmos speakers aren't set up correctly.

IIRC the atmos setup is also compatible with DTSX. Do you have any plans for Auro 3D? If so then additional thought needs to go into speaker placement since Auro and Atmos are a little bit at odds with each other.

Any thought as to how wide apart a L/R front speakers should be? I have not considered Auro 3D. Honestly, I have not heard of Auro 3D. Any good resources to research regarding the difference between Auro 3D and Atmos?

 

[yepimonfire]

20-30 degrees, which is either 80% of the distance to the speakers or the same distance, in your case, about 10-12 feet.

Second, you cannot do top rear speakers in that room, as there's not enough space behind the mlp. It's extremely important that the Atmos renderer has accurate info on where the speakers are located in order for the intended 3D effect to work. I would configure it for top middle and top front, with the top middle at an 80 degree angle of elevation and the top fronts at 45 degrees, 10-12' apart, in line with the l/r speakers.

The surrounds should be no higher than 1.25x ear level, at a 90-110 angle.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

 

[fuzz092888]

Any thought as to how wide apart a L/R front speakers should be? I have not considered Auro 3D. Honestly, I have not heard of Auro 3D. Any good resources to research regarding the difference between Auro 3D and Atmos?

Auro 3D is another surround format. Native Auro tracks are hard to come by in the US, but Auro's upmixing is supposed to be arguably superior to Atmos' and DTS X's. From what I've read from people who compared them, when using the upmixing modes they usually preferred Auro. I'm in the process of doing an Atmos/Auro setup so I'll be able to compare in the next month or so.

as yepimonfire mentioned, and it depends on your speakers, but don't usually want your front speakers more than 30 degrees from the MLP. You also have to take into account that if those speakers are flush with your cabinets and shelves and things that could cause a whole range of other issues.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

20-30 degrees, which is either 80% of the distance to the speakers or the same distance, in your case, about 10-12 feet.

Second, you cannot do top rear speakers in that room, as there's not enough space behind the mlp. It's extremely important that the Atmos renderer has accurate info on where the speakers are located in order for the intended 3D effect to work. I would configure it for top middle and top front, with the top middle at an 80 degree angle of elevation and the top fronts at 45 degrees, 10-12' apart, in line with the l/r speakers.

The surrounds should be no higher than 1.25x ear level, at a 90-110 angle.

Sent from my LM-X210(G) using Tapatalk

Yep,I don’t know if you saw the original diagram, but the room actually has another open are behind the LP. I believe there is room there for rear height speakers. Hoping he can repost that image.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’m very interested to see how Fuzz’s auro/Atmos install turns out, as I think many Americans have given up on auro having much of any presence here. I’m very close to doing my own Atmos upgrade and haven’t even considered auro as there just isn’t much support, and for me, I’m not willing to go there for the upmixing capability. Who knows, I may regret that choice but I just don’t see it. Not saying anybody shouldn’t, because I’m a believer in 3d audio, just not sure about auro.

 

[Richard Berg]

The surrounds should be no higher than 1.25x ear level

Ooh, hadn't realized the spec was so low. Wiring up a new theater room this weekend, would've definitely put the side-surrounds too high! Does the same go for 7.1 rears?

 

[fuzz092888]

Ooh, hadn't realized the spec was so low. Wiring up a new theater room this weekend, would've definitely put the side-surrounds too high! Does the same go for 7.1 rears?

Yes. Obviously you can put higher and angle down, but you may not get exactly the desired effect.

 

[fuzz092888]

I’m very interested to see how Fuzz’s auro/Atmos install turns out, as I think many Americans have given up on auro having much of any presence here. I’m very close to doing my own Atmos upgrade and haven’t even considered auro as there just isn’t much support, and for me, I’m not willing to go there for the upmixing capability. Who knows, I may regret that choice but I just don’t see it. Not saying anybody shouldn’t, because I’m a believer in 3d audio, just not sure about auro.

Everything I’ve read points to Auro being superior in the upmixing arena and since there is a plethora of content that isn’t 3D audio I think there’s still a market for it. Especially since the new upper tier Denon and Marantz receivers/processors are coming with it built in. It’s really only takes one more speaker (that isn’t even required) and adjusting speaker placement slightly (at least in a small room like mine). In a larger room, it would be trickier, but you could still get away with it.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ooh, hadn't realized the spec was so low. Wiring up a new theater room this weekend, would've definitely put the side-surrounds too high! Does the same go for 7.1 rears?

Yes but you can go like maybe 1.55-ish as per this diagram. That can help get over the seat backs a little bit too.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Everything I’ve read points to Auro being superior in the upmixing arena and since there is a plethora of content that isn’t 3D audio I think there’s still a market for it. Especially since the new upper tier Denon and Marantz receivers/processors are coming with it built in. It’s really only takes one more speaker (that isn’t even required) and adjusting speaker placement slightly (at least in a small room like mine). In a larger room, it would be trickier, but you could still get away with it.

These are all definitely good points, and I won’t argue any of them. Speaking only for myself, I’m not really interested in adjusting for auro, even though my new avr will most likely be an x4300/4400(but I still like the sister version in Marantz), and be upgradable or have it built in. Also, it seems like there’s not much interest for it lately, generally speaking. At least that’s my observation, as I don’t hear a lot of people talking about it. Like I said, I may totally regret not doing it, but I know how to pull cable. Lol

 

[matt_ht]

Thank you everyone for all of your feedback. I uploaded the original layout which shows the bar area that is directly behind the couch.

I will work on updating the layout based on your comments.

Any comments on a suitable AVR to power 5.2.4? Any comments between Definitive Technology vs. KEF speakers? For DefTech I'd be looking at their BP9000 Series with voice matching in-wall and in-ceiling.