Help With Analog Upgrade

[Pub7]

Hi all and thanks in advance for any answers. I got back in to vinyl about three years back buying a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable for $399.00. I would like to upgrade the table and get a separate phono stage to bring my system to another level that will be obvious in it's improvement.I have also purchased a Pro-Ject record Cleaning Machine. A prominent online dealer has some sales going on that sound very attractive and tempting. They are:

Music Hall 5.5 turntable Goldring cart?
Sim Audio Moon 110 LP Phono Stage
Audioquest Diamondback interconnects.

The above are sold as a bundle, value is approx $1,900 sale price is $999.00.

Rega RP3 Table with Ortofon 2MBlue cart.
$1,100 value for $899.00

Pro-Ject 1Xpression with Sumiko Oyster cart
$1,000 dollar value marked down to 599.00

Option 1 seems to be a no brainer, or is it? I am open to any other tables, phono stage suggestions, these are just a sample. I listen to mainly classic heavy rock, blues, old school jazz, Beatles and Elton John. Some classical as well.
My System:
Aragon 8008BB Dual Mono Power Amp
Musical Fidelity A3cr Dual Mono Pre Amp
PS Audio P-300 Power Plant
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon TT
Marantz CDR-500 player/recorder
Wharfedale Pacific Evo-30 Speakers
Audioquest bulk speaker cable
Audioquest King Cobra and Golden Gate interconnects
PS Audio Statement and Plus Power Cables

Thanks.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd just use what you have, the gains from there on out are quite minimal for the $ spent. If you do anything, do yourself a favor and forget the Audioquest crap and anyone trying to sell it to you.

 

[slipperybidness]

Hi all and thanks in advance for any answers. I got back in to vinyl about three years back buying a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon turntable for $399.00. I would like to upgrade the table and get a separate phono stage to bring my system to another level that will be obvious in it's improvement.I have also purchased a Pro-Ject record Cleaning Machine. A prominent online dealer has some sales going on that sound very attractive and tempting. They are:

Music Hall 5.5 turntable Goldring cart?
Sim Audio Moon 110 LP Phono Stage
Audioquest Diamondback interconnects.

The above are sold as a bundle, value is approx $1,900 sale price is $999.00.

Rega RP3 Table with Ortofon 2MBlue cart.
$1,100 value for $899.00

Pro-Ject 1Xpression with Sumiko Oyster cart
$1,000 dollar value marked down to 599.00

Option 1 seems to be a no brainer, or is it? I am open to any other tables, phono stage suggestions, these are just a sample. I listen to mainly classic heavy rock, blues, old school jazz, Beatles and Elton John. Some classical as well.
My System:
Aragon 8008BB Dual Mono Power Amp
Musical Fidelity A3cr Dual Mono Pre Amp
PS Audio P-300 Power Plant
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon TT
Marantz CDR-500 player/recorder
Wharfedale Pacific Evo-30 Speakers
Audioquest bulk speaker cable
Audioquest King Cobra and Golden Gate interconnects
PS Audio Statement and Plus Power Cables

Thanks.

You are wasting your $ on AudioQuest Snake Oil Cables.

I would personally be avoiding Sim Audio due to previous shady practices.

 

[vsound5150]

That's a close call you already have a decent turntable with the carbon tonearm. Have you tried higher end cartridges or one's with a higher voltage output like the AT 440MLb with 4mV? Sometimes a small change as that will do wonders including additional fine tuning adjustments.

 

[class a]

I would go for the Rega RP3 w/2M Blue cart. I would also add a Lounge Audio phono or the Parks Audio Tube Budgie. IMHO the two best sub $1000 phonos on the market.

 

[Pub7]

Thanks to you all who have replied. So two of you have bad opinions of Audioquest. What interconnects and speaker cable should I look at? Also the first responder thinks I would need to spend more $$ to make it worthwhile?
Class A, I have heard of the Audio Tube Budgie and Rega has always interested me. A local high end store, Music Lovers Audio in Berkeley Ca. had suggested the Clearaudio Concept TT.

 

[Pub7]

VSound, I upgraded the original cart (Ortofon Red) to a Sumiko Pearl and then to my current which is a Grado Silver. What is the best cart in your opinion before it starts to be too good for the TT?

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks to you all who have replied. So two of you have bad opinions of Audioquest. What interconnects and speaker cable should I look at? Also the first responder thinks I would need to spend more $$ to make it worthwhile?
Class A, I have heard of the Audio Tube Budgie and Rega has always interested me. A local high end store, Music Lovers Audio in Berkeley Ca. had suggested the Clearaudio Concept TT.

Sorry, I get a little hot when I see that brand name. There's no magic in audio wire, so anything that works. Monoprice.com or Mediabridge at Amazon are good choices. If you like the aesthetics or the placebo value at the price of Audioquest it does function okay and looks okay, it just doesn't have the fairy dust they say it has (among the worst of the audiophool brands out there, nearly criminal in the BS they claim plus they've been known to rig their comparison presentations).

Bluejeanscable.com has high quality if you need something more aesthetically appealing but personally I find them too pricey for stuff that just needs to work and is out of sight in my systems.

Curious, just what differences did you "hear" when changing out the cartridges you already have?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

AQ, are audio equivalent of snake oil. It works just like any other oil, just don't expect anything other that base function - ie being oil. It passed audio signal just as well as any other correctly made cable would.

I think If OP is looking for improvements in audio - I'd focus on the elephant in the room :
Wharfedale Pacific Evo-30 Speakers
No double they are decent speakers, but you could do much better and investing in speakers will guarantee you largest improvements in audio quality

I suggest reading this post:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/wharfedale-pacific-evo-30-and-40.1180/#post-445396

 

[class a]

VSound, I upgraded the original cart (Ortofon Red) to a Sumiko Pearl and then to my current which is a Grado Silver. What is the best cart in your opinion before it starts to be too good for the TT?

Ortofon MM carts have a tendency to to have more emphasis on the top end. The Grado will be warmer and roll off the top a bit. Some carts that are on the neutral side would be the Denon dl 110 and the Hana EH. Both are high output MC carts that will work well w/MM phonos. The flavor you like is up to you.

 

[Pub7]

Lovin, I agree totally about snake oil when it comes to cables and other accessories. I saw some cables advertised for 11k, for a six foot pair of speaker cable! Give me a bleepin break. I found a guy who is fairly local that makes cables. His company is Cullen Cable. I bought a high qulaity power strip from him and have been very happy. Ill look in to replacing all Audioquest cables with his or the other brand suggested. I thought the Ortofon too bright, the Sumiko Pearl to laid back and veiled. The Grado Silver has been better and lies somewhere between the other two.

Bored, was not thinking Speaker change at this time but thanks for your input. Thanks to all others too who have weighed in up to this point.

 

[3db]

Im a fan of Project turntables and having a better table eill give you a better sound. However, stay away from the myth of magical cables. Its BS. Im also leary of expensive phono stages and lump them into the same category of magical snake oil cables. The only parameter a better phono stage will give you is a lower noise floor. Better channel separation is not possible because that parameter is dictated by the cartridge and passed onto the phono stage.

 

[vsound5150]

VSound, I upgraded the original cart (Ortofon Red) to a Sumiko Pearl and then to my current which is a Grado Silver. What is the best cart in your opinion before it starts to be too good for the TT?

Those are excellent cartridges anything better will over price your Pro-Ject Debut Carbon and send you out upgrading as you are doing now. It's insane how the Grado Silver/Gold spec's. a freq. range of 10Hz-60KHz using an elliptical stylus as oppose to the line contact design which goes deeper into the vinyl grooves where the high freq. (and crud) hide. I guess our ears are the final judge.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Lovin, I agree totally about snake oil when it comes to cables and other accessories. I saw some cables advertised for 11k, for a six foot pair of speaker cable! Give me a bleepin break. I found a guy who is fairly local that makes cables. His company is Cullen Cable. I bought a high qulaity power strip from him and have been very happy. Ill look in to replacing all Audioquest cables with his or the other brand suggested. I thought the Ortofon too bright, the Sumiko Pearl to laid back and veiled. The Grado Silver has been better and lies somewhere between the other two.

Bored, was not thinking Speaker change at this time but thanks for your input. Thanks to all others too who have weighed in up to this point.

I'm afraid that any "upgrades" of Power cables and power stips fall into same snake oil category. I didn't tell you to replace AQ cable with another brand. What I mean - even a clothes hanger would do as speaker cable. It doesn't matter. Any cable (as long as they correct construction for the task - ie gauge, impedance or shielding) is fine. You don't have to sell AQ because they bad - they just as good any other, maybe look better. If you could sell them anywhere their near original price you paid - you might be able to upgrade other MUCH more important parts of your system - like speakers and room acoustics.

I know that you said that you're not interested in replacing speakers, but for the sake of argument - get the Ascend Sierra Tower in your place - http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRT/srt.html
They have 30 days home trial - don't like it for any reason - just return it - worst case scenario - you've lost shipping money and a bit of time.
Or even better one: http://philharmonicaudio.com/slims.html

I guarantee you - you'd be amazed on how much drastic and real improvement these could deliver. Much more than any cables, phono pre stage or cartridges.

 

[lovinthehd]

Lovin, I agree totally about snake oil when it comes to cables and other accessories. I saw some cables advertised for 11k, for a six foot pair of speaker cable! Give me a bleepin break. I found a guy who is fairly local that makes cables. His company is Cullen Cable. I bought a high qulaity power strip from him and have been very happy. Ill look in to replacing all Audioquest cables with his or the other brand suggested. I thought the Ortofon too bright, the Sumiko Pearl to laid back and veiled. The Grado Silver has been better and lies somewhere between the other two.

Bored, was not thinking Speaker change at this time but thanks for your input. Thanks to all others too who have weighed in up to this point.

Yes, AQ has some very silly cables, especially those 10k plus ones....and they don't even come with a token blow job. You can make your own cables, its fairly simple if you want, even pretty ones, its not that hard. Have a look thru this thread

What is a high quality power strip? That sounds like the insanity of "high quality" aftermarket power cords. Why do you need a power conditioner at all?

Chasing better audio with a turntable wouldn't be my first choice in any case (nostalgia, maybe); I've still got my tt, had it for 30 years plus and have gone thru several cartridges, none of which made me sit up and marvel at the changes. A competent phono stage in a preamp/receiver has worked well for me without seeking extra boxes to add to the chain. Comparisons can be hard unless you have two turntables setup for a comparison, otherwise I think you're letting too much audio'llphoolya get in the way. I've used several models of Shure, Grado, Stanton, Empire and maybe some others, don't remember, along the way, currently using a Shure M97xE which works just fine. Trying to micromanage their traits for all records (or even switching a cart out for a specific record) I just find a waste of time. FWIW our music tastes appear to be along the same lines. YMMV.

I'd be looking at better speakers or adding a sub perhaps if the wallet is itching. Maybe sell the AQ stuff if you can recoup your outlay, or just use it now that you've got it.

Good luck on your audio journey in any case....

 

[Pub7]

Thanks to all for the advice on the original questions and speakers etc. I am looking in to all of these. Bored, I knew where you were coming from but I have never liked the termnations on my speaker cables and have been wanting to replace them.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Thanks to all for the advice on the original questions and speakers etc. I am looking in to all of these. Bored, I knew where you were coming from but I have never liked the termnations on my speaker cables and have been wanting to replace them.

In this case, if you fancy decent aesthetics cable combined with top notch quality of all parts, just get BJC :
https://www.bluejeanscable.com/
you could easily have same result spending less, but spending more that BJC price would be utterly wasted.

 

[class a]

You already own cables and interconnects just use what you have. If all cables are the same what's the use of buying more cable even if it costs less. Take the funds you have and spend them on the TT setup you want. What is your exact limit you are willing to spend?

 

[Pub7]

i am going to different speaker cable but keeping interconnects. Turntable expense, about a thousand.

 

[vsound5150]

A thousand$ should get you a fine turntable. I purchased this used Denon in excellent condition for $300 from a pawn shop in Japan. Waiting for a friend to bring it back to the states.