Help selecting 7 HT speakers $4k budget

[stactum]

Hello,
Long time lurker, first time poster here, also posted similar thread on avforum.

I just got budget approval from my wife to upgrade our dedicated home theater room with new speakers. The budget is $4k. I would like to get some opinions with what would be good value/quality.
My HT is primarily for movies, but I can foresee music listening increasing there too. I'd say now it 80/20.

I do have SVS SB-13 Ultra sub to take care of lows. Also HT powered by Anthem PVA 7 and MRX 510 as pre. I have various sources (Media center with Asus Xonar Essence ST sound, PS4, Pioneer Elite BD, etc.).
I listen wide variety of music, anything from classic rock to modern violin (Lindsey Stirling) to Queen to Mogwai and deadmou5 (a lot of trance).

My dedicated HT room is 14 x 21 with 2 row seating (7 seats), 9 ft ceiling, all about 2,464 q.ft. It's half-open on the left side.

I was thinking towers for the L/R channels, not bookshelves since I am not sure they'll fill the room. Also stands a bit more dangerous with kids running around. I've read a lot of posts where people recommend bookshelves with couple of subs (like Sierra 2 + SVS or Rythmik).

I've read some good reviews and considered:

• Ascend Acoustics (Sierra Tower, Horizon and some B-stock Sierra 1 rears and surrounds) - I would want it with RAAL which pushes it out of my budget.
• Salk Songtower - probably would pick Ascend over Salk
• Philharmonics 3 - just can't get past the look of them and out of my range
• Focal Aria 900 line - like it, but can afford if I get 40% off (is it realistic?)
• KEF R-series (R500, R200C, R100, R800DS) - same as above, is it reasonable to get them 40% off
• There are some others that I haven't done whole lot of research like Sonus Faber, PSB, Martin Logan ESL, and some more affordable options like EMP Tek, Chrane ARX, HTD Level THREE, etc.

So far I outlined the following systems what I will try to hear:

Aperion Verus Grand
Verus Grand Towers
Verus Grand Center
Verus Grand Bookshelf
Verus Grand Bookshelf or Verus Surround


GoldenEar Triton Three or Seven
Triton Three Tower or Triton Seven Tower
SuperCenter X
Aon 2
Aon 2

SVS Ultra
Ultra Towers
Ultra Center
Surrounds
Bookshelves

Focal Chorus 800V-series - I do like it from price standpoint
836V Towers
CC800 Center
806V Bookshelf
SR800V Surround

Also question to pros. What is reasonable discount to get from dealers? I am in Milwaukee, but won't mind traveling to Chicago to hear/pickup.

I am newbie it this process so I'd like to ask if I am missing anything or some other options I should consider. Appreciate your help in advance.

 

[Cos]

1. Talk to AudDefTech...he has connections

For myself, I have been buying from the same dealer since 2002. I can expect to get anywhere from 20-25% off speakers. Where I have really found some good deals, is when he has people return items then I am saving like 30%+ on open box items less than a few weeks old. I picked up my second GE Sub for about 350 off list open box less than 1 week old.

I can't speak for every brand, but I do have some experience with the Golden Ear's. In this case I would not suggest the Triton Seven's just given your room size. 29' Deep is pretty long and I think you would want a little more size, (that is just my opinion)

I am currently building my new man cave with Triton One's, SuperCenter XL, Triton 7 Surrounds, Aon 3 Rears and Invisa MPX Ceiling Speakers in case I finally make the push to Dolby Atmos. The one thing I really like about Golden Ear, is that their speakers really do compliment each other well.


For your Setup
I would step up to the Triton 3's just for the extra built in subs for more of a lower end push. I would upgrade to the SuperCenter XL and possibly change out the Aon 2 for the Aon 3. Given all these changes it might shock your budget a bit.

If you make the trip to Chicago I know a great Dealer in both Chicago & Naperville that deal in GE speakers.

A lot of people have had positive comments about the 836V Towers, but I didn't like them as much when I compared them to my current Paradigms which I am selling.

I don't have a lot of experience with the other brands, but I am sure that there are many on these forums who do.


On the last note I have my Paradigm Studio 100v5 & Center CC-690 for sale. (both about 1.5 yrs old and pristine) I also have a pair of ADP-470v3 that were replaced by the 590s which I have already sold. Paradigm's don't get a lot of love on this forum but I have been very happy with them, especially for Home Theater.


http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/49710-paradigm-studio-v-5-series-studio-100-cc-690-adp-590-sub-15-review.html

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

As far as discounts, it all depends on the dealers. Whom do you know? In my experience, most dealer cost is about 40-50% of the MSRP. Some dealers are willing to give you 5%, some 10%, some 15%, but most won't go beyond that.

 

[Cos]

I definitely did not get my usual discount on my Triton One's 15% to constrained inventory. GE are made in China by the way, so between flooding and the fact that the ones that actually made it to North America are stuck in Canada due to some strike going on, they were not easy to get.

You will not have problems with the other models

Best advice I can give you;
1. Demo everything - Take into consideration room environment (i.e. best buy vs. a Dealer will probably have less than ideal listening environment
2. Bring your favorite music and movie and listen to both
3. Decide

Advice on this forum is excellent, but in the end you have to like the way the speakers will sound so take your time, otherwise everyone here would have RBH Speakers with Denon AVR-X4000

 

[Mr_Owlow]

Have you considered XTZ's Cinema Series? I'm from Sweden and visited their shop and was blown away by how good they were, great tone, clarity and separation, and power (this was the M6 Speakers). You can buy them on xtzsound.us

 

[crossedover]

Have you considered XTZ's Cinema Series? I'm from Sweden and visited their shop and was blown away by how good they were, great tone, clarity and separation, and power (this was the M6 Speakers). You can buy them on xtzsound.us

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/loudspeakers/91375-xtz-sound-cinema-series-m6-s5-subx12-loudspeakers-preview.html

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Advice on this forum is excellent, but in the end you have to like the way the speakers will sound so take your time, otherwise everyone here would have RBH Speakers with Denon AVR-X4000

Why..............................................you...................................

Well, I am an advocate of RBH & Denon/Marantz, but I certainly don't represent everyone here.

I only express my experience, which includes owning the Def Tech BP7000SC tower, which I liked a lot. I do like the sound of the Def Tech and Golden-Ear towers with built-in subs. But even back then when I owned the BP7000SC, I did not like their implementation of the built-in sub amp at all. If they could make the amp external on those built-in subs, I might be more inclined to be more neutral.

I think many people have angst concerning buying speakers unheard. But after buying all the speakers over the years, I am very confident based on speaker measurements and the basic design of the speakers - the more flexible the design, the better. And I believe the RBH SX-8300 is more flexible and measures more accurately than any Golden-Ear or Def-Tech speakers. The RBH brand also commands a lot more respect for several reasons. I already mentioned accurate frequency response measurements and flexible design (the bass can be easily actively bi-amped using external amp). They are also made in the USA (RBH have been making speakers in Utah for over 30 years). It doesn't hurt to have a big brother speaker like the $50,000 Status Acoustics 8T towers either.

And just as importantly, I can get the RBH for a much better price than any Golden-Ear or Def-Tech.

So better price, better measurement, more flexible design, more prestige = clear choice to me.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot- same thing on the Denon X4000. I mean you could get this awesome AVR (Audyssey XT32 + dual independent Subwoofer EQ) for about $900 if you know whom to call.

 

[stactum]

Excellent feedback, guys!

I will have a look at XTZ, they seem very interesting. I do like ID brands a lot since to me they provide excellent value by bypassing the whole dealer network and additional marketing costs and basically living off the word of mouth. I can't seem to find a lot of XTZ reviews yet.

1. Demo everything - Take into consideration room environment (i.e. best buy vs. a Dealer will probably have less than ideal listening environment
2. Bring your favorite music and movie and listen to both
3. Decide

That's the plan!

@AcuDefTechGuy RBH seem to be highly regarded and I found few dealers here around Milwaukee that might have them. If you can point me out to any good ones you might know in the WI/IL area I will appreciate it.


The plan for today is so hear some GoldenEars and whatever else is on the floor!

 

[lsiberian]

Not sure why you lean Ascend over Salk. I'd definitely lean Salk myself.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

ADTG makes a compelling case for the RBH! Now I want some ADTG suggestion of the x4000 with dual sub management and XT32 is a good one too. Although there will be a replacement offered in the coming months, so I'd expect to see it even cheaper.

I agree with your assertion to skip the bookshelves, go towers.

You've done some research and have some good contenders with Aperion, SVS, and the Triton's. You mentioned you are considering some music use as well, so I'd encourage you to audition as much as you can. Some things you need to decide for yourself to ensure you're happy with your purchase:

Do you like the high velocity folded ribbon in the Tritons, or do you prefer a dome tweeter like in the Aperions or SVS? The Tritons HVFR tweeter has a unique sound to it. I liked it when I heard it, you may not. I would also suggest auditioning some speakers with a RAAL tweeter, like the Salk Songtowers with the RAAL upgrade. If you love the RAAL, you may find it's worth saving up and increasing the budget a bit. If not, it's still information gained.

How much bass do you need? I have the SB13 as well (love it) but I still run my towers full range for movies/music so I'm happy they dig deep. At some point I'll add a second SB13 and still run them full range.

Enjoy the search!

 

[JonnyFive23517]

There's also Hi-Fi Heaven in Green Bay, I'm sure they have tons of speakers you could audition.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@AcuDefTechGuy RBH seem to be highly regarded and I found few dealers here around Milwaukee that might have them. If you can point me out to any good ones you might know in the WI/IL area I will appreciate it.

Try the dealer locator: Dealer Locator

It is good to audition speakers for sure.

But keep in mind how the speakers INTERACT with YOUR room is salient. They could sound good in one room, but not as good in your room. Thus, I reiterate good speaker measurement and flexibility (adjusting & implementing bass) and a good processor with great room correction software.

For example, Audyssey XT32 can flatten and smooth out the frequency response of your speakers in your room. But it can only do so much. It needs help. Don't expect Audyssey or any other software to do magic and fix all speakers. The better the baseline speaker measurement, the better Audyssey will perform.

Now I know I've mentioned this like a broken record, but again I am just expressing my personal preference. What I find missing with many systems is that dynamic, snappy, punchy, "fast", "musical" bass. And here I believe Audyssey Dynamic EQ (EQ) delivers in strides because it "enhances" the bass, while keeping the frequency response flat and smooth even beyond 10kHz, which is how I like it. I know some people prefer the tapering off beyond 10kHz, but I don't. I like it flat all the way to 20kHz as long as the bass is kick-butts.

Send me a PM if you are interested in prices, etc.

 

[kini]

Since this is for 80% HT use go with HT speakers like JTR or JBL, then you won't need towers. You end up paying a lot for the fancy enclosure of the more expensive speakers.

 

[stactum]

But keep in mind how the speakers INTERACT with YOUR room is salient. They could sound good in one room, but not as good in your room. Thus, I reiterate good speaker measurement and flexibility (adjusting & implementing bass) and a good processor with great room correction software.

For example, Audyssey XT32 can flatten and smooth out the frequency response of your speakers in your room. But it can only do so much. It needs help. Don't expect Audyssey or any other software to do magic and fix all speakers. The better the baseline speaker measurement, the better Audyssey will perform.

I have ARC2 correction and so far it's done magic to my polks + svs.

Now I know I've mentioned this like a broken record, but again I am just expressing my personal preference. What I find missing with many systems is that dynamic, snappy, punchy, "fast", "musical" bass. And here I believe Audyssey Dynamic EQ (EQ) delivers in strides because it "enhances" the bass, while keeping the frequency response flat and smooth even beyond 10kHz, which is how I like it. I know some people prefer the tapering off beyond 10kHz, but I don't. I like it flat all the way to 20kHz as long as the bass is kick-butts.

The way you've described it - I think I kind of like the same sound. I do like likable punchy, velvety bass response. I feel SVS gives me that.

Send me a PM if you are interested in prices, etc.

Thank you! I will.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have ARC2 correction and so far it's done magic to my polks + svs.

The way you've described it - I think I kind of like the same sound. I do like likable punchy, velvety bass response. I feel SVS gives me that.

Thank you! I will.

I've seen some graphs of ARC and it seems to flatten and smooth out the frequency response like Audyssey XT32.

It would be interesting to see a graph of ARC2 with Dolby Volume Leveler engaged and see if it does the same as Audyssey Dynamic EQ - which is to enhance the bass below 200Hz and upper treble above 10kHz, while keeping most of the frequencies flat from 200Hz - 10kHz.

PENG did a measurement with one of his speakers with DEQ:

 

[Cos]

Why..............................................you...................................

Well, I am an advocate of RBH & Denon/Marantz, but I certainly don't represent everyone here.

I only express my experience, which includes owning the Def Tech BP7000SC tower, which I liked a lot. I do like the sound of the Def Tech and Golden-Ear towers with built-in subs. But even back then when I owned the BP7000SC, I did not like their implementation of the built-in sub amp at all. If they could make the amp external on those built-in subs, I might be more inclined to be more neutral.

I think many people have angst concerning buying speakers unheard. But after buying all the speakers over the years, I am very confident based on speaker measurements and the basic design of the speakers - the more flexible the design, the better. And I believe the RBH SX-8300 is more flexible and measures more accurately than any Golden-Ear or Def-Tech speakers. The RBH brand also commands a lot more respect for several reasons. I already mentioned accurate frequency response measurements and flexible design (the bass can be easily actively bi-amped using external amp). They are also made in the USA (RBH have been making speakers in Utah for over 30 years). It doesn't hurt to have a big brother speaker like the $50,000 Status Acoustics 8T towers either.

And just as importantly, I can get the RBH for a much better price than any Golden-Ear or Def-Tech.

So better price, better measurement, more flexible design, more prestige = clear choice to me.

Oh, yeah, almost forgot- same thing on the Denon X4000. I mean you could get this awesome AVR (Audyssey XT32 + dual independent Subwoofer EQ) for about $900 if you know whom to call.

LOL,

I do agree with both suggestions, they are excellent choices. I did demo the 8300/r Speakers before the Triton one's came out, I drove an hour away to demo 8300/r's on your suggestion. I believe they are definitely more flexible, but will also require more work to configure. Needless to say they are great sounding speakers. Had they been closer to my Triton One dealer, it would have made my decision more difficult. As far as measurements go, I can't see them when I listen to music or movies, I just know what sound I like and they don't sound too shabby

Just not a huge fan of Denon Looks, yes I know that is not a good reason, but the same goes for emotive. I had bad luck with Marantz in the past which is why I have stayed away until recently.



Let me know how that Hi-Fi Heaven is, I almost drove up there when I had an impulse to pick up the AV8801 Marantz because their price was so attractive. The seem like they have really good deals out there.

 

[stactum]

Not sure why you lean Ascend over Salk. I'd definitely lean Salk myself.

I was thinking Ascend Sierra Tower with RAAL over Salk SongTower RAAL based on some forum comments I've seen. I am sure they're both wonderful speakers.

 

[GIEGAR]

...

I am in Milwaukee, but won't mind traveling to Chicago to hear/pickup.

Stactum, you have (IMO) some of the best value, high performance HT speakers in the world made right on your doorstep! You really should take a drive out to Oconomowoc and have a listen to JTR Speakers. Jeff Permanian, the owner/designer/builder is by all accounts is a very knowledgeable, easygoing fella. He'll enjoy treating you to a mind blowing JTR demo in his room and won't pressure you into buying anything.

For around your stated budget for 7 speakers straight away, my recommendation is 3 X JTR Single 8HT ($3000) and 4 X JBL Cinema Sound 8320's ($990). The Single 8HT's are built around a pro-derived, high end coaxial compression driver and are capable of clean output to very high levels. This makes for a very dynamic HT or music speaker at all volumes. The JBL's are a powerful budget surround that owners report match well with JTR's.

Some listener's impressions of the Single 8HT's, as well as a few other speakers you're considering, are here: NE Spring Speaker Shootout results thread - April 13, 2013 - AVS Forum

If you're prepared to stage your upgrade and perhaps use your existing speakers as surrounds for the interim, you could step up to 3 X JTR Noesis 228HT's ($3900). Jeff does optional matching stands for the Noesis (and others) that give them the form factor of a tower. Surround options down the track include the bigger JBL 8340A Cinema Surrounds ($1100/pr) or JTR Slanted 8HT's ($1000 each, less discount). There are also some excellent kit+flatpack options for surrounds that I can link, if you're at all interested in DIY.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I just know what sound I like and they don't sound too shabby

They do sound very good for sure. This was never about sound quality. It was mainly about flexibility and price discount.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you want ugly cabinets, but clean loud sound, also check out the $250 JBL JRX212 pro loudspeaker. Saves you a lot of money.