Help on picking an amp

[MDS]

WmAx,
You obviously missed the [with quality components]. That disclaimer gives one an easy way out. If you don't hear the 'obvious' differences, then your other equipment isn't good enough or your hearing is inadequate. It's predictable and I was thinking about starting a thread to list all of them.

 

[WmAx]

WmAx,
You obviously missed the [with quality components]. That disclaimer gives one an easy way out. If you don't hear the 'obvious' differences, then your other equipment isn't good enough or your hearing is inadequate. It's predictable and I was thinking about starting a thread to list all of them.

It gives no out. Their statement is made in an absolute sense. I wonder if the latter part of your reply is meant as a joke, or is serious. I sincerely can not determine which is the case. If serious, then please answer[note: a speculation with no substantiation will not be considered a valid answer by me] the questions that I asked the last person.

-Chris

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have to agree with mulester on this one, more power is always [with quality equipment] going to make your system sound better at moderate to higher volumes.

He doesn't already have a quality component? If his uses 50 watts, replacing it with a 1000 watt amp and producing the same SPL at 50 watts, help us understand how you statement is true?

greg1vivid said he would like an amp, up to 800 dollars, so either suggest one to him or don't bother posting.

Say what??? No responses unless it is just to answer his question in a very narrow band??? No other inputs allowed??? Nothing can be questions???

That is not how discussion boards work.

 

[MDS]

It gives no out. Their statement is made in an absolute sense. I wonder if the latter part of your reply is meant as a joke, or is serious. I sincerely can not determine which is the case. If serious, then please answer[note: a speculation with no substantiation will not be considered a valid answer by me] the questions that I asked the last person.

-Chris

I should have realized that it's hard to tell from the written word that I was being facetious. I did not mean to say YOU (or anyone else) can't hear the difference because either your ears or equipment is inadequate. I was simply pointing out that it is a predictable response to this topic.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I think it's somewhat difficult for members to relate to much of what is being said on this and similar threads because of lack of information. Some of the members are giving advice but never seem to back it up with personal experience.

I wonder how many - if any, get frustrated hearing the same rants over and over from those not willing to share what equipment they own, how they listen to music, what type of music, and in what capacity.

Some guys are thrilled with an Ipod, some with a ghetto blaster, and others - the insane frat parties they throw every weekend. When generalities are thrown at threads day in and day out without knowing individual listening preferences, it loses its appeal.

You rarely ever see new members jumping in on these threads. Have they figured something out? Are they afraid to chime in because of a philosophical reply is on the way? Should this thread be moved to the steam vent?

I think there's a loss of credibility when people constantly harp without some real world examples. If I'm way out of line, please let me know.

 

[WmAx]

Some of the members are giving advice but never seem to back it up with personal experience.

I wonder how many - if any, get frustrated hearing the same rants over and over from those not willing to share what equipment they own, how they listen to music, what type of music, and in what capacity.

Some members answer and give advice based on real knowledge, as opposed to the highly innaccurate unsubstantiated speculation(s) that are more common/popular.

What is the worth of an unsubstantiated speculation that is concluded via a highly flawed/biased experience?

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

I should have realized that it's hard to tell from the written word that I was being facetious. I did not mean to say YOU (or anyone else) can't hear the difference because either your ears or equipment is inadequate. I was simply pointing out that it is a predictable response to this topic.

Thank you for the clarification and I apologize for my misinterpretation.

-Chris

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Some members answer and give advice based on real knowledge, as opposed to the highly innaccurate unsubstantiated speculation(s) that are more common/popular.

What is the worth of an unsubstantiated speculation that is concluded via a highly flawed/biased experience?

-Chris

So as soon as one lists their equipment, and relays how they listen to it, give their honest opinion, it's inaccurate, unsubstantiated speculation? What's wrong with biased listening preferences? Why is that flawed if it's mentioned up front? At what point does ones opinion become substantiated?

Have you ever gone to a live performance and agreed with friends/companion that the performance sounded great? Or that another performance sounded terrible?

 

[WmAx]

So as soon as one lists their equipment, and relays how they listen to it, give their honest opinion, it's inaccurate, unsubstantiated speculation? What's wrong with biased listening preferences? Why is that flawed if it's mentioned up front? At what point does ones opinion become substantiated?

What wrong? The probability of the information having value is very low. When someone asks a question about a quantifiable issue, what is the real use of the typical subjective opinions? The only use I can see is one of social value.

Have you ever gone to a live performance and agreed with friends/companion that the performance sounded great? Or that another performance sounded terrible?

Apples vs. oranges.

Discussing an unspecific and subjective issue[such as the concert example you gave] is not the same as claiming as fact things that can be verified/tested[such as an amplifier parameter effect upon sound].

-Chris

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

What wrong? The probability of the information having value is very low. When someone asks a question about a quantifiable issue, what is the real use of the typical subjective opinions? The only use I can see is one of social value.

So do you find any of the professional reviews on this site having more social value than quantifiable value?

Apples vs. oranges.

Discussing an unspecific and subjective issue[such as the concert example you gave] is not the same as claiming as fact things that can be verified/tested[such as an amplifier parameter effect upon sound].

Only because we didn't level match the two concerts in the same room with the same musicians. Man, this gets boring after awhile.

The guys get your point. I just wish you'd use your knowledge and love of the hobby to recommend some equipment once in awhile. I bet you have your favorites.

 

[WmAx]

So do you find any of the professional reviews on this site having more social value than quantifiable value?

I don't typically read the reviews on this site. When I have in the past, there were subjective reports performed under sighted conditions for things like amplifiers, therefor I have not paid much attention to the reviews on this site since. The measurement section of the reviews is the most valuable part.

The guys get your point. I just wish you'd use your knowledge and love of the hobby to recommend some equipment once in awhile. I bet you have your favorites.

Actually, I do make occasional product recommendations when it is a case of a very high value product that was overlooked or a specialty device to achieve a certain function that was not previously suggested. However, I elect not to make recommendations on a regular basis; plenty of people already here to do that.

-Chris

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think it's somewhat difficult for members to relate to much of what is being said on this and similar threads because of lack of information. Some of the members are giving advice but never seem to back it up with personal experience.

Ah, same old story. Personal experience must be king, no matter how much it can be only a singular reality, not very useful to others.
But information is more than just a personal experience, don't you think?

Maybe it makes the recipient think and ask more questions. Always a good thing.

I wonder how many - if any, get frustrated hearing the same rants over and over from those not willing to share what equipment they own, how they listen to music, what type of music, and in what capacity.

Another irrelevant idea what one has. Has no bearing on anyone but me, for instance. It will not help anyone evaluate their choices properly, will it? It will not help them hear differences either, will it?

Yes, not much changes with regard to hearing ability, hearing evolution. Actually it is getting worse every day for all of us. So, its like being asked over and over: what is 2+3?

When generalities are thrown at threads day in and day out without knowing individual listening preferences, it loses its appeal.

Oh, you must have missed some of the questions then?

You rarely ever see new members jumping in on these threads.


What would you expect from the less knowledgeable ones? Give them time.


Have they figured something out? Are they afraid to chime in because of a philosophical reply is on the way?


Something wrong with such replies?


I think there's a loss of credibility when people constantly harp without some real world examples. If I'm way out of line, please let me know.

You bet you are way out in left field.
Real world experience is far from that be all end all solution to problems, especially when those experiences can be so unreliable, misleading, flawed, singular in nature. Is that what it is all about, a lot of nonsense at times??? Useless nonsense?

 

[mtrycrafts]

So as soon as one lists their equipment, and relays how they listen to it,

Well, as soon as it involves that biased way, the equipment list is kind of looses its meaning.

give their honest opinion,


Of course it is honest but is it reliable??? How so?
Therefore, my honest opinion is that when I put a steel pipe in a bucket of water, the water bends it. And when I pull it out, the air straightens it out. How is this not the same then??? Maybe there is another explanation???

it's inaccurate, unsubstantiated speculation?


As it seems.

What's wrong with biased listening preferences?


Nothing until one makes testable claims based on those biased observations. Why shouldn't it be questioned??? It is a must to be questioned, or bs gets permeated as facts. then there is no turning back.


Why is that flawed if it's mentioned up front?

Actually, it wouldn't get a second thought until it rises to testability. Please show where preferences are questioned???

At what point does ones opinion become substantiated?


Credibly tested and verified??? Replicated???

Have you ever gone to a live performance and agreed with friends/companion that the performance sounded great? Or that another performance sounded terrible?

And if there is a disagreement??? What is it based on??? Artistic differences??? Certainly not the acoustic environment or it would affect all performance. But so what, it is part of that performance then.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I think there's a loss of credibility when people constantly harp without some real world examples. If I'm way out of line, please let me know.

You bet you are way out in left field.
Real world experience is far from that be all end all solution to problems, especially when those experiences can be so unreliable, misleading, flawed, singular in nature. Is that what it is all about, a lot of nonsense at times??? Useless nonsense?

I'm getting the impression someone likes the twilight zone here.

Read your statement again.

 

[mulester7]

Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to pick up the QSC RMX 2450.

.....Greg, order asap the QSC RMX 2450, and use it on your front mains with the receiver handling the rest....then, in learning how to use slave amps strapped, strap it, and power your center with it, with the receiver handling the rest....you will only use one gain with it strapped, the other will be all the way down, there will be only one signal inputted from a Y of the receiver's pre-outs to achieve mono, the wiring of the speaker wires on the back of the amp will be different going to the lone center speaker, and a small switch on the back will be flipped from normal to bridge....don't do anything that goes against the instruction book that will come with the amp when strapping your amp, and it's nothing like using it regular with two channels of normal wiring....try that amp in both applications, in every comparative way you can figure out, including moderate and reference levels, and if you hear little or no difference at that point, I will pay for the shipping back, I promise, and will mail you a check....but you'll probably be ordering another "like" amp when you can, to have your front three speakers covered....what?....yes, concerning that check I will send you, hopefully I won't have to find an ink pen that writes on rubber, arf......

.....Buck made a profound observation when he said the volume was just as loud and didn't seem to be as loud, with the speakers sipping off bigger watts....when the sound quality is cleaner, there is less of that which offensively stands out gaining attention.....

 

[droeses58]

How does more power always make your system sound better at moderate to higher volumes? More power relative to what? If the amplifier that is replaced already produces output power into the given load that reaches a sufficient SPL and does not distort/clip, then how will increasing the power beyond this point make it "sound better"?

What?.................... sufficient spl, relative to what?

At higher spl's [I'm thinking 95 and up] more power is going to sound better because the lesser power amps will start to clip/distort this is what I was trying to say. I guess I should have been more specific.

For those who seem to care about my [our] hearing don't, I'll worry about my own, Thank You!

 

[droeses58]

WmAx,
You obviously missed the [with quality components]. That disclaimer gives one an easy way out. If you don't hear the 'obvious' differences, then your other equipment isn't good enough or your hearing is inadequate. It's predictable and I was thinking about starting a thread to list all of them.

Not an easy way out, just a way to weed out the crap. [like most htib's, Insignia etc.]

 

[mtrycrafts]

At higher spl's [I'm thinking 95 and up] more power is going to sound better because the lesser power amps will start to clip/distort this is what I was trying to say. I guess I should have been more specific.

For those who seem to care about my [our] hearing don't, I'll worry about my own, Thank You!

Why would it start distorting at 95dB spl? That is only a few watts with many speakers?

Distortion that may be audible starts above clipping power. If an amp needs to go beyond this level because of speaker load, then the speaker was not properly matched to the amp.
On the other hand, if that is not the issue, 95 spl is not a magical level for clipping.

 

[mulester7]

I'm going to pick up the QSC RMX 2450.

.....Greg, anything to report?....if for some reason you can't order it right now, don't worry about it....but, haha....we're going to see this one through....500 at 8 will give GREAT sound quality, especially at FULL levels of spl count, and I'm referring to EVERY element of that speaker enclosure....this purchase has my attention more than a second swallowed cue ball.....ya'll hear that monkey joke?.....

.....Jeff, what speakers and how many do you have now?....are they 8 ohm or 6 ohm or 4?....what is your surround receiver you're pushing them with currently?....do you have a favorite CD that you love to crank that has good bass guitar in it?....talk to me, Jeff, talk to me, haha......

 

[WmAx]

At higher spl's [I'm thinking 95 and up] more power is going to sound better because the lesser power amps will start to clip/distort this is what I was trying to say. I guess I should have been more specific.

For those who seem to care about my [our] hearing don't, I'll worry about my own, Thank You!

Thank you for clarifying by being more specific this time around. However, many speakers only need a few watts per channel to produce 95dBs at the listening position. At 100 watts per channel on a typical speaker, ear-damaging SPLs...
-Chris