Help on picking an amp

[greg1vivid]

I have a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 100v3's and plan on getting a Yamaha RX-V2600 and would like a recommendation for a 2ch amp. I want to get the best sound out of my speakers for around $800 and was checking out the Anthem MCA and QSC RMX series. Looking for opinions or other suggestions, thanks.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I have a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 100v3's and plan on getting a Yamaha RX-V2600 and would like a recommendation for a 2ch amp. I want to get the best sound out of my speakers for around $800 and was checking out the Anthem MCA and QSC RMX series. Looking for opinions or other suggestions, thanks.

Why don't you wait with that separate amp until you had a chance to listen to that Paradigm and Yam extensively first.

Then, come back and talk to us again

 

[jaxvon]

Please, Mtry. At 800 bucks, you might want to try the used market on AudiogoN. You can find a lot of NICE amps in your price range there. I'm personally a big fan of B&K. An ST-202+ should be in your price range. Heck, you might be able to find some Brystons and stuff too. Maybe even an older McIntosh. Vintage stuff is great. Those older amps are built like tanks.

 

[buckyg4]

I have a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 100v3's and plan on getting a Yamaha RX-V2600 and would like a recommendation for a 2ch amp. I want to get the best sound out of my speakers for around $800 and was checking out the Anthem MCA and QSC RMX series. Looking for opinions or other suggestions, thanks.

2 words.. McCormack DNA-1

 

[race4aliving]

2 words.. McCormack DNA-1

Wise words. there are a whole bunch of amps that you may have never heard that have had a very well established history of sonic excellence and a history just as long for being VERY expensive but, now with some research you can purchase some of these used for fair prices. It really is worth the effort. the Athem and Outlaws are very nice but for approx. the same money with some research you might be very suprised at what you could end up with.
dont forget the orignial price on most of this equipment was very high so it was generaly really well cared for. just checking on ebay a sec. ago for your $800.00 You could get a Bryston 4B,an NAD 2600 strapped for mono for your center channel and a Hafler DH200 for you surounds. right now those have well less the a days worth of bidding left and you would be able to buy ALL 3 for between $800.00 and $1000.00 thats if you want to go home theater. If you want to listen to just stereo I dont think you will hear to many people bad mouth Bryston. If you just wanted to stay strickly 2 channel well at $800. you have some very good used hi end amp choices. good luck and happy hunnting.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Please, Mtry. At 800 bucks, you might want to try the used market on AudiogoN. You can find a lot of NICE amps in your price range there. I'm personally a big fan of B&K. An ST-202+ should be in your price range. Heck, you might be able to find some Brystons and stuff too. Maybe even an older McIntosh. Vintage stuff is great. Those older amps are built like tanks.

What's his hurry? He hasn't even tried his speakers with the Yam and already he needs to get an external amp???

 

[PENG]

What's his hurry? He hasn't even tried his speakers with the Yam and already he needs to get an external amp???

As I mentioned a few times before, I A/B'ed (by witching wires back and forth) those Paradigm's between a less powerful RX-V2400 and an Anthem separates. In 2CH material the Anthem only sound slightly better to me subjectively. I heard more difference by switching between the Studio 100V3 and the 60. I did not pay attention to that Anthem system but I was sure the power amp itself cost way more than $800. At $800, I would consider the Adcom or Rotel models.

 

[Pyrrho]

I agree with mtrycrafts. You should wait until you try out the Yamaha to see if there is a need for spending more money. Otherwise, you may be throwing away your money for nothing.

As for amplifiers sounding different, most people who listen to different amplifiers do not bother to level match them, so any difference that they hear may be due to slight differences in volume, which affects the subjective perception of tonal quality. This is because human hearing is not linear; as volume decreases, the bass and treble appear to diminish faster than the midrange. Thus, a slightly louder sound, even if otherwise exactly the same, will subjectively appear to have better, fuller bass and more detail in the treble. Many older two-channel receivers have "loudness compensation" switches to boost the bass and often the treble for low level listening because of this quality of human hearing.

Most audiophiles know next to nothing about human perception and its limitations, which makes them easy prey for unscrupulous salespeople, as well as easy prey for honest salespeople who have been suckered themselves.

 

[race4aliving]

I agree with mtrycrafts. You should wait until you try out the Yamaha to see if there is a need for spending more money. Otherwise, you may be throwing away your money for nothing.

As for amplifiers sounding different, most people who listen to different amplifiers do not bother to level match them, so any difference that they hear may be due to slight differences in volume, which affects the subjective perception of tonal quality. This is because human hearing is not linear; as volume decreases, the bass and treble appear to diminish faster than the midrange. Thus, a slightly louder sound, even if otherwise exactly the same, will subjectively appear to have better, fuller bass and more detail in the treble. Many older two-channel receivers have "loudness compensation" switches to boost the bass and often the treble for low level listening because of this quality of human hearing.

[Most audiophiles know next to nothing about human perception and its limitations, which makes them easy prey for unscrupulous salespeople, as well as easy prey for honest salespeople who have been suckered themselves.]

Oh I see. I have been a victim of stereo typing many times before, now you are also STEREO typing me because of my choice hobbies, but I bet you think we don't know any better and your just trying to do us a favor.

 

[Nick250]

Oh I see. I have been a victim of stereo typing many times before, now you are also STEREO typing me because of my choice hobbies, but I bet you think we don't know any better and your just trying to do us a favor.

Why do you think Pyrrho is talking about you? In any event Pyrrho is providing accurate information IMO which I think would be useful to others on this board and I for one would like him to continue with such posts.

 

[mulester7]

.....even Gene, has made suggestions for quality slave amps to augment quality pre-pro surround receivers, and the same small handful continue on, grasping at every conceivable straw 'till the bitter end, applying reasoning....Pyrro, a slight difference in spl's has nothing to do with the difference noticed sipping from big watts, and the most notable difference is in the low end....we have been graced with post after post of verification from guys just being honest who are not stupid, and the seemingly desperate negative reasoning continues on....oh well, whatever.....

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Many older two-channel receivers have "loudness compensation" switches to boost the bass and often the treble for low level listening because of this quality of human hearing.

That loudness button only boosts the bass and treble. It does not drop the sound floor. In many cases, it even increases the thd at low levels. You won't get that with a separate power amp.

Remember those small 5 band eq "power boosters" they sold for car audio? I think Pyramid was popular for making them. They sounded OK up to a certain level, but push them a bit more, and the distortion reared it's ugly head fast. That was basically an overdone loudness compensation switch. These in no way compared to separate power amps in cars.

The benefit of a well made power amp really shows when you turn up the volume. It never seems like it's getting loud, because the sound floor is so low. There's absolute silence between musical peaks.

 

[WmAx]

Claims of better bass or other improvements by using an amplifier with the only difference being higher power output capability are not valid unless the smaller amplifier did not have sufficient power to operate the load used at the intended amplitudes without distorting. If people have a valid claim to the contrary, then they should explain this in a logical manner and not resort to a made-up[and unsubstantiated] technical explanation as to what they think they hear when in reality they probably don't have a clue what caused the percieved difference(s).

-Chris

 

[Pyrrho]

.....even Gene, has made suggestions for quality slave amps to augment quality pre-pro surround receivers, and the same small handful continue on, grasping at every conceivable straw 'till the bitter end, applying reasoning....Pyrro, a slight difference in spl's has nothing to do with the difference noticed sipping from big watts, and the most notable difference is in the low end....we have been graced with post after post of verification from guys just being honest who are not stupid, and the seemingly desperate negative reasoning continues on....oh well, whatever.....

So, are you claiming that human hearing is linear, and that when one turns down the volume, the bass and treble do not subjectively appear to diminish faster than the midrange? Why do you think they used to commonly put something called "loudness compensation" on things? Where did that name come from?

A slight difference in loudness will be most noticeable in the low end. That is the whole point. One absolutely must level match the amplifiers in question; otherwise, with a slight difference in volume, one will typically hear a difference in the low end. Thus, without level matching, one may believe that there is a difference in quality between two amplifiers that are identical except that one has slightly greater gain.

 

[Pyrrho]

That loudness button only boosts the bass and treble. It does not drop the sound floor. In many cases, it even increases the thd at low levels. You won't get that with a separate power amp.

Remember those small 5 band eq "power boosters" they sold for car audio? I think Pyramid was popular for making them. They sounded OK up to a certain level, but push them a bit more, and the distortion reared it's ugly head fast. That was basically an overdone loudness compensation switch. These in no way compared to separate power amps in cars.

The benefit of a well made power amp really shows when you turn up the volume. It never seems like it's getting loud, because the sound floor is so low. There's absolute silence between musical peaks.

I never said that a loudness compensation switch was a substitute for more power, nor did anything I say imply anything like that. You might want to go back and reread what I said, and if you have anything useful to say about my actual comments, feel free to repost. The point in bringing up the loudness compensation circuitry was to point out the fact that the idea of human hearing not being linear is not some obscure esoteric concept, but was common knowledge among audiophiles. Thus the absolute need for level matching for one's listening to be of any use at all. Unfortunately, these days, audiophiles seem to know less and less about more and more.

 

[MDS]

....we have been graced with post after post of verification from guys just being honest who are not stupid, and the seemingly desperate negative reasoning continues on....oh well, whatever.....

If one is truly open minded and agrees with the audioholics mantra of 'Pursuing the truth in audio' then he should be open to the idea that maybe, just maybe what he believes to be true just might not be true.

It is not sufficient to say that 'I am honest and not stupid'. True, most people wouldn't lie outright and claim they heard things that weren't there, but it is possible that one is lying to himself. Though powerful and complex, the human brain and ears are easily fooled. So are the eyes (think optical illusions).

 

[mulester7]

.....to anyone who embraces reference levels with their system even if only occassionally, and are considering adding a quality and relatively inexpensive slave amp to augment their quality pre-pro surround receiver.....

.....just do it....go for at least 200 watts rms a channel but more is better....unless you live in a concrete house, this is the most important thing you can do to improve the sound quality/musicality from your quality speakers no matter what ohmage or sensitivity they are rated....some are interpreting what I say as a knock on their receiver and are desperately trying to refute and defend....you won't be returning the slave amp....now there it is, do what you will, I won't be listening to your system.....

.....I have suggested the QSC RMX 2450 about six times....500 watts rms at 8 ohm rating for $550 and free shipping, 750 watts rms at 4 ohms, with the fan on the back for goodness sakes, brand new, no chance of buying someone else's problems off ebay with a used component....

.....MDS, my mind is probably the most open one here, as I couldn't care less about anything but truths being exposed for the sake of my system's musicality through improved sound quality....three times in the past, I have augmented a stereo receiver with stereo slave amps, with the smallest amount of watts rms at 8 being 200 a side....all three times, what I heard was a huge difference in the musicality and richness full-range....I realize everyone is probably sick and tired of me pushing slave amps, but I feel the same way about unfounded arguments through reasoning....just do it....or don't....it's your system, not mine.....

 

[droeses58]

I have to agree with mulester on this one, more power is always [with quality equipment] going to make your system sound better at moderate to higher volumes.

greg1vivid said he would like an amp, up to 800 dollars, so either suggest one to him or don't bother posting.

Greg, you might want to check out a pair of these:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html

 

[greg1vivid]

Thanks for the help guys, I'm going to pick up the QSC RMX 2450.

 

[WmAx]

more power is always [with quality equipment] going to make your system sound better at moderate to higher volumes.

How does more power always make your system sound better at moderate to higher volumes? More power relative to what? If the amplifier that is replaced already produces output power into the given load that reaches a sufficient SPL and does not distort/clip, then how will increasing the power beyond this point make it "sound better"?

-Chris