Help! Need $3000 Five Speaker recommendations (Don’t like my Klipsch RB81 II system)

[scattershot]

yes

This is what Gene mention as a "CON" for Verus bookshelf -
Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics
While the lower end is a bit weaker, they still measure very nicely at they are a bargain at 300/ea

Listen BoredSysAdmin I am REALLY glad you've been shoving these Aperion speakers down my throat because I've read the audioholics review and am thoroughly impressed.

I love Audioholics because Audioholics is to home theater equipment reviews as to what the BBC use to be to journalism (E.g. perhaps the most trusted source out there!).

The reviews of these speakers clearly highlight how these speakers are an EXCELLENT BANG FOR BUCK! They are probably the safest decision for me to go with at this time (plus they ship out of the Pacific North West so I'd like to support a local company).

Amongst the hightlights that I gathered from the Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker review:
Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics

-Gorgeous finish (good for the WAF -- not that I care about her opinion
-Ten year warranty! (shows they stand behind their product)
-Short Height (13") giving me lots of placement flexibility
-flat frequency response!
-solid on and off axis performance

These speakers are now at the top of my list, just have some things to mull over between them and the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 / Sierra Center.
(Any last thoughts on that comparison?)

Thanks BoredSysAdmin!

 

[scattershot]

BoredSysAdmin I did have 4 other questions about the Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker system.

1)
Do you think the Onkyo TX-NR809 Receiver:
http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-NR809&class=Receiver&p=i
is good enough to power these things?

Reason why is that the 809 is the price point to which I can afford to buy a new receivers every 3-4 years (e.g. the upkeep cost required to keep my speakers current is me buying a new audio-visual receiver every 3-4 years).

2)
If I went higher-end on say a Onkyo audio-video receiver, what would be the price point where one would get the highest marginal utility with the Aperion speakers (e.g. best bang for buck Onkyo receiver to power them?)
http://www.onkyousa.com/prod_class.cfm?class=Receiver

3)
What do you think of the Verus Surround Dipole/Bipole Speaker:
Verus Surround Dipole/Bipole Speaker - Aperion Audio

4)
Do you have a paypal account where I can send you a small thank you that should pay for a couple of beers? (pm me).

Thanks for all your help.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Listen BoredSysAdmin I am REALLY glad you've been shoving these Aperion speakers down my throat because I've read the audioholics review and am thoroughly impressed.

I love Audioholics because Audioholics is to home theater equipment reviews as to what the BBC use to be to journalism (E.g. perhaps the most trusted source out there!).

The reviews of these speakers clearly highlight how these speakers are an EXCELLENT BANG FOR BUCK! They are probably the safest decision for me to go with at this time (plus they ship out of the Pacific North West so I'd like to support a local company).

Amongst the hightlights that I gathered from the Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker review:
Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker Review — Reviews and News from Audioholics

-Gorgeous finish (good for the WAF -- not that I care about her opinion
-Ten year warranty! (shows they stand behind their product)
-Short Height (13") giving me lots of placement flexibility
-flat frequency response!
-solid on and off axis performance

These speakers are now at the top of my list, just have some things to mull over.

Thanks BoredSysAdmin!

No, I'm "shoving" Ascend speakers "down your throat", Aperion are just the budget, but solid alternative
With your money being tight, it wont hurt to try the budget option .. just saying...

 

[scattershot]

I think both will suck

That's really a difficult comparision - one uses an 8" woofer and the other uses two 6.5" woofers. In this case the main advantage of the tower is that it'll probably just extend bass deeper - which I agree is somewhat useless with a subwoofer.

However you have to consider that most of the time the tower equivalent of a stand mount speaker, has a larger, more robust driver handling the region from 60hz to 400hz, which a lot of power is required.

If you cross a subwoofer over at 80hz, you still need a speaker that won't strain from 80hz to 400hz. A 6.5" driver can only go so loud and still has to move a lot in that mid bass region. So to blend smoothly to a sub you need mains that can keep up. Some stand mount mains CAN keep up - like the JTRs I mentioned. I'm just saying that often times, bookshelfs just lose composure at high volumes, because you're asking too much out of tiny drivers.



Despite the "bookshelf" moniker, I don't really like this idea. There's going to be a big diffrraction off this bookshelf edge that won't be all too great for the sound quality.



3) subwoofer near the back of the room instead of up front

Thanks for all this information, I am really starting to understand what you are highlighting here.

The thing is I think the best thing (short term) is for me to look at something like the Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker or Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 / Sierra Center combo
and in the long run when I move into a new (and bigger place) quality towers will be the way to go.

It seems like both above speakers will do a decent job of blending with the SVS PB13 Ultra so for now it will be a decent system until I get more space and can afford better.

But I get it now, Floorstanding Loudspeakers are the only way I will achieve audio nirvana in the long run

 

[scattershot]

No, I'm "shoving" Ascend speakers "down your throat", Aperion are just the budget, but solid alternative
With your money being tight, it wont hurt to try the budget option .. just saying...

My fiancee, who I would NEVER EVER let read this thread, would agree with you.

These 2 systems seem like the smart step until I can afford something better in the future (when I move into a bigger place of course).

 

[zieglj01]

The size of the PSB speakers seem to good to be true (Since they are relatively tiny in size compared to the other options I was looking at) and since they are a Canadian brand and I live in Canada they should be easy to find (without some of the huge price markups associated with some of the US brands where the Canadian distributors don't sell the units at par but mark them up like 35% over US MSRP!).

Thanks

The PSB is 12" deep - however, good luck with Ascend or Aperion.
Do not under estimate the PSB. I also use Hotel California as one
of my audition selections - I check to see if the speaker will sound
boxy - I also use Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2) - to
check guitars and voices.

 

[scattershot]

The PSB is 12" deep - however, good luck with Ascend or Aperion.
Do not under estimate the PSB. I also use Hotel California as one
of my audition selections - I check to see if the speaker will sound
boxy - I also use Pink Floyd, Another Brick in the Wall (Part 2) - to
check guitars and voices.

There is a 'small' chance I may know someone who can get me a deal on a blind purchase of the PSB speakers so I will consider it if he gets me the deal he quoted me -- otherwise it's the Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker or Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 / Sierra Center combo with me leaning towards the Aperion unit.

I obviously feel a little more confident with reselling the PSB's if/when I move into a bigger place in a few years but the Aperion Audio and Ascend Acoustics are noticeably cheaper which is a huge factor right now.

zieglj01 I want to thank you for your help as well, your 4 choices (and PSB in particular) I will pass onto other curious friends.

I'd like to send a couple of beers your way as well so if you have a paypal account where I can send you a small thank you pm me as well.

 

[scattershot]

Thanks to everyone out there for their input, and a special thanks to zieglj01 and BoredSysAdmin for narrowing the plethora of choices to 3!

 

[scattershot]

BoredSysAdmin on your Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker system recommendation
and
zieglj01 on your PSB recommendation
what would you say with #1 and 2 below?

1)
Do you think the Onkyo TX-NR809 Receiver:
Onkyo USA Home Theater Products
is good enough to power these things?

Reason why is that the 809 is the price point to which I can afford to buy a new receivers every 3-4 years (e.g. the upkeep cost required to keep my speakers current is me buying a new audio-visual receiver every 3-4 years).

2)
If I went higher-end on say a Onkyo audio-video receiver, what would be the price point where one would get the highest marginal utility with the Aperion speakers (e.g. best bang for buck Onkyo receiver to power them?)
Receivers | Product Line | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products

Thanks

 

[nezff]

I have RF63s and RC64.
I know you said no floorstanders, just thought Id let you know.

 

[3db]

I'm alot late jumping in but I have find a balcne between work and posting here.

I own an entire PSB suite of speakers in the Image series plus their subwoofer, a Subsonic 5. I've been living with my system for over 7 years and I don't feel the need to upgrade my speakers, just the sub. I own a pair of IMage T45s, Image 8C cneter and Image 1B for my surrounds. Everyone who has heard my system comes away very impressed with its sound and capabilities. Its very dynamic playing equally well quiet or loud.

I mentioned that I wantr to upgarde my sub. The subsonic is agreat little sub, having a very flat frequency response curve. It sounds good but I'm looking to go into the low 20s which this sub just can't do.

I highly recommend PSB and being Canadian, you support the Candian economy.


Here's areview on teh next series up, tyhe imagine series from audioholics.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/psb-imagine-t

 

[scattershot]

zieglj01 or anyone else can I ask you if you have heard BOTH the PSB Imagine B Bookshelf and Synchrony One/Two Bookshelfs what your thoughts are on how big a sound quality difference it is going up to the Synchrony One / Two bookshelf units?

Imagine B Bookshelf:
Imagine B Bookshelf - PSB Speakers

vs.

Synchrony Two Bookshelf:
Synchrony Two B - PSB Speakers

vs.

Synchrony One Bookshelf:
Synchrony One B - PSB Speakers

Thanks

 

[zieglj01]

zieglj01 or anyone else can I ask you if you have heard BOTH the PSB Imagine B Bookshelf and Synchrony One/Two Bookshelfs what your thoughts are on how big a sound quality difference it is going up to the Synchrony One / Two bookshelf units?
Thanks

I have not listened to the Synchrony speakers.

http://www.goodsound.com/equipment/psb_imagine_b.htm

 

[zieglj01]

BoredSysAdmin on your Aperion Audio Verus Grand Bookshelf Speaker system recommendation
and
zieglj01 on your PSB recommendation
what would you say with #1 and 2 below?

The 809 can do 4 ohms

Just set it

Speaker Impedance
4 ohms–16 ohms or 6 ohms-16 ohms

 

[scattershot]

Thanks for clearing that up, I see the 809's are certified for their 4 ohm performance, thanks for info.

One last thing on the PSB front, do you know how Paradigm's (also Canadian) Signature and Studio series compare to PSB's Imagine and Synchrony series?

(e.g. which one is known to sound better musically?)

Someone I know may have access to both PSB and Paradigm's (and Tannoy) entire line of speakers and can likely get me a deal on those 3 brands (and only those 3 brands) but I might not be able to hear them beforehand...

Like I said I am budgetted up to $1000 for the bookshelf pair (and maybe even to $1500) so I wanted to weigh out what get's me the best bang-for-the-buck musically.

Thanks

 

[3db]

Thanks for clearing that up, I see the 809's are certified for their 4 ohm performance, thanks for info.

One last thing on the PSB front, do you know how Paradigm's (also Canadian) Signature and Studio series compare to PSB's Imagine and Synchrony series?

(e.g. which one is known to sound better musically?)

Someone I know may have access to both PSB and Paradigm's (and Tannoy) entire line of speakers and can likely get me a deal on those 3 brands (and only those 3 brands) but I might not be able to hear them beforehand...

Like I said I am budgetted up to $1000 for the bookshelf pair (and maybe even to $1500) so I wanted to weigh out what get's me the best bang-for-the-buck musically.

Thanks

Its getting to the point now where you have to sit down and audition the speakers on a list you've made. Remember that hearing is subjective meaning we all hear things differently from one another.One person may deem the speaker as pleasing and another may find that same speaker sounding bad and visa versa. It really boils down to auditioning now.

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooth that made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2 channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning. Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when auditioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using them most of the time.

 

[scattershot]

Its getting to the point now where you have to sit down and audition the speakers on a list you've made. Remember that hearing is subjective meaning we all hear things differently from one another.One person may deem the speaker as pleasing and another may find that same speaker sounding bad and visa versa. It really boils down to auditioning now.

What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and
model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the
speakers you were auditioning. Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding? Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced? Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooth that made you want to listen for more? How was the imaging?

Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know well. To
make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2 channel mode with music. Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT.

Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning. Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when auditioning speakers.


One thing to keep note off. When auditioning speakers, make sure the volume levels are matched between the diiferent speaker pairs because the louder speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you would listen to most of the time because thats how you are going to be using them most of the time.

First of all 3db thank you for your tips – I think any non-experienced person who is lurking this thread should do EVERYTHING you advised with regards to auditioning speakers.

I would LOVE to take my Hotel California DTS track (from Hell Freezes over DVD) and listen to the first 2 minutes of instrumentals with those systems to try to find a speaker system that is:
-warm
-musically accurate (particularly in mids and highs)
I love that track because the first 2 minutes isolates an instrument or two at a time -- making it easier to compare the speakers on a variety of instruments to get a better idea of the speakers range.
I find the problem with many songs is that there is too much going on in the song (or in the case of many rock tracks too much distortion) that takes away from the actual judging of the speakers quality.

I’d love to do a comparison by isolating the bookshelfs (and not running them off a sub since the sub is irrelevant since I will be running a SVS PB13 Ultra with the speakers).

I have enough experience listening to speakers the last 10 years that if I was able to audition all the brands I was interested in doing a 1 v 1 faceoff I am sure I would make

Unfortunately I have to buy these speakers I am interested in blind because no place near me has them on display.
In the case of PSB / Paradigm / Tannoy I have a friend who may be able to get me a significant discount on these speakers in exchange for some pro-bono work from me so hence why I was trying to feel out which of these 3 manufacturer’s had the best musical sounding speakers in the price range I am looking at for bookshelfs ($1000 to $1500 MSRP per pair)….

 

[GranteedEV]

I find the problem with many songs is that there is too much going on in the song (or in the case of many rock tracks too much distortion) that takes away from the actual judging of the speakers quality.

That's important in evaluating speakers, though. Some speakers can delineate all that's going on, while other speakers might mush it all together.

 

[scattershot]

Thanks to 3db, I've posted these tips on how to audition speakers for anyone lurking through this thread.
---------------------------------------

I ALWAYS recommend auditioning any potential speakers you want to purchase in order to make the best decision possible.

Unlike with picture quality, sound quality tends to be very subjective to people and no 2 people tend to hear things the same way.

One person may deem the speaker as pleasing and another may find that same speaker sounding bad and visa versa.

With speakers it is very important to choose what sounds good to YOU.

Here are some tips on how to properly audition speakers:

1)
What I would do is to take a pad of paper with you, write down the make and model of each speaker you audition and what you liked and disliked about the speakers you were auditioning.

Ask yourself these questions about what you have heard:
• Was the bass tight and deep or was it boomy and loose sounding?
• Were the mids life like or were they hollow or just too pronounced?
• Was the treble irritating and harsh or were they dark and not revealing or were they smooth that made you • want to listen for more?
• How was the imaging / soundstage?

2)
To make it easier to audition HT speaker systems, listen to the main speakers in 2 channel mode with music.

Music is much harder to reproduce accurately then a movie soundtrack so if the speakers do well with music, then they will do well with HT.

3)
Keep track of what amp or receiver is powering the speakers you're auditioning.
Try to get a receiver/amp that closest resembles what you have or want to get. It just reduces another variable when auditioning speakers.

4)
One thing to keep note of: when auditioning speakers, make sure the volume levels are matched between the different speaker pairs because the louder speaker pair will always sound better. Listen to levels that you think you would listen to most of the time because that’s how you are going to be using them most of the time.

5)
Bring music with you that you are very familiar with and know well. (Ideally you should bring the highest quality source possible, like a Blu-ray disc, since the highest resolution music source will push the speakers to its limits).

I like to use the Hotel California DTS track (from the Hell Freezes Over DVD) and listen to the first 2 minutes of instrumentals with those systems to try to find a speaker system that is:
• warm
• musically accurate (particularly in mids and highs)

After the 2 minute long instrumental intro, you will also have a chance to hear vocals as well.

 

[scattershot]

You know you are right I shouldn't downplay this.

I think the thing is I want to compare the speakers first with a track like hotel california just to get a clean look at how they do with a variety of isolated instruments.

Then after that's done doing a test with a variety of different music (e.g. classical, jazz, rock, hip hop) and even a movie test (looking for things like dialogue accuracy, sound stage, etc.) should be done as well.

I only meant a quick and dirty test would be one good song with many isolated instruments (like Hotel California).