Help! Need 2 ohm amp

G

GreenJelly

Banned
WmAx said:
No need to spend that much. A Behringer EP2500, for $330, will easily provide the power you need into a 2 ohm load, and in fact, will provide much more power than you will ever want to use, since it can output over 1000 watts per channel into 2 ohm loads, assuming you have a dedicated 20 amp circuit just for the amp.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHEP2500

-Chris
Thoose Niles amps are under 1K and have 12 channels (which can be bridged). I dont know their ranges and the sound however, but it would be a good choice. They are rated for a high current (4 ohms) and will be high power. You can also then use it for 6.1 or for any other application.

That much power from the Behringer at that price makes me suspect that they use slow switching components that will destroy high-end sound. I would suspect they are subwoofer amps.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
GreenJelly said:
That much power from the Behringer at that price makes me suspect that they use slow switching components that will destroy high-end sound. I would suspect they are subwoofer amps.
If there is one thing I have learned about Behringer, it's not to assume you(or I) can predict the actual quality based on price. That company has, over the last 3 years, released a few products of very high quality with price tags that seem impossible. Cases in point: A500 amplifier, B5 Microphone, DCX2496 DSP Loudspeaker Management System, DSP1124 Parametric Equalizer, DEQ2496 DSP Equalizer, and I'm sure some others that I have missed.

-Chris
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
WmAx said:
If there is one thing I have learned about Behringer, it's not to assume you(or I) can predict the actual quality based on price. That company has, over the last 3 years, released a few products of very high quality with price tags that seem impossible. Cases in point: A500 amplifier, B5 Microphone, DCX2496 DSP Loudspeaker Management System, DSP1124 Parametric Equalizer, DEQ2496 DSP Equalizer, and I'm sure some others that I have missed.

-Chris
I am going to personally look into them for my setup. It is silly to assume that high prices equals high quality.
 
J

jayfremont

Enthusiast
GreenJelly said:
I dont understand why you would want such a setup... More speakers can only mean more sound (louder). As you stress an amp you will get more clipping and distortion, leading to speaker damage. Thats if you dont overheat the amp....

I would have suggested you to a spend money on a single pair of really good speakers, rather then spending the thousands of dollars required to power these three.
I would have loved to have spent the money on a pair of Sonus faber speakers, but I love my wife more. I thought the best way to avoid dead spots in my 28'L x 16'W x 10'H room and still keep my marriage was to install six in-ceiling speakers. I should have wired each speaker separately, but didn't know and didn't have the good sense to ask all of you before I covered the ceiling with wood panelling.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Nuglets said:
Not sure if this is 100% but my amps are labeled as 'high current'.

That is a meaningless label. One only has to look at the HK claims and the paper write up about such claims at AH home page.

A better way to tell is by rated RMS power into 4 and 2 ohm loads compared to an 8 ohm load.
 
Johnny Canuck

Johnny Canuck

Banned
I just got a Behringer EP2500 today. Not hooked up yet. I am just about to. Will let you know. I read great things and for a third of the price as Crown or QSC amps, it was worth a try. Apparantly this amp is a rip off of a QSC. That's OK to me if it's even close to a QSC with that much power.
 
WmAx

WmAx

Audioholic Samurai
Johnny Canuck said:
I just got a Behringer EP2500 today. Not hooked up yet. I am just about to. Will let you know. I read great things and for a third of the price as Crown or QSC amps, it was worth a try. Apparantly this amp is a rip off of a QSC. That's OK to me if it's even close to a QSC with that much power.
I have seen zero substantial evidence that it is a QSC rip-off. I have noticed people claiming such, and showing obscure photos of the insides, showing general layout similarities, and that is the extent of the available evidence, so far as I am aware.

-Chris
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
jayfremont said:
I would have loved to have spent the money on a pair of Sonus faber speakers, but I love my wife more. I thought the best way to avoid dead spots in my 28'L x 16'W x 10'H room and still keep my marriage was to install six in-ceiling speakers. I should have wired each speaker separately, but didn't know and didn't have the good sense to ask all of you before I covered the ceiling with wood panelling.
depending on how you set it up, you can run new wires without removing the ceiling... all you have to do is use the old wires as leads, and tie the new wires onto them. Then pull the old wires, and they all will go through the walls...
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
WmAx said:
I have seen zero substantial evidence that it is a QSC rip-off. I have noticed people claiming such, and showing obscure photos of the insides, showing general layout similarities, and that is the extent of the available evidence, so far as I am aware. -Chris

Once the urban legend gets a foothold, no stopping it:eek:
 
xboxweasel

xboxweasel

Full Audioholic
mtrycrafts said:
That is a meaningless label. One only has to look at the HK claims and the paper write up about such claims at AH home page. A better way to tell is by rated RMS power into 4 and 2 ohm loads compared to an 8 ohm load.
Okay, but Haoleb said that "you [should] look for an amp that has high current capability rather than something with a high wattage rating". What exactly does that mean? Mine are rated for 200W(8ohm), 300(4ohm), and 410W(2ohm) continuous RMS 20-20kHz. So, high wattage or high current? Both? I am guessing that the voltage to the speakers is fairly constant 2-4VAC correct?
 
G

GreenJelly

Banned
When I talk about high current amps, I am talking about UL approved designs and labels that specifically state 4, 2 or 1 Ohm as their product capabilities.

Currently NO A/V receivers except for NAD and another (I forget who), are UL approved for 4 ohm's or less.

A few years ago, the high end Denons used to make 5 channel 4 ohm A/V receivers. Sony use to have 4 Ohm standards on their front channels. I have a Pro-Logic receiver with a 4 Ohm rating, and I have been running 4 Ohm speakers off of them for some time. Now almost no designs have the 4 Ohm rating:(

I beleive this is because the culture of Audio Buyers is to look at the Watts of the system, with very little worry or concern of high current.

Simply put, low current amps are more likely to clip at or bellow their rated wattage when put on speakers that utilize that current. This is because 8 Ohm speakers can dive deep into higher resistance at times. I beleive that a 2 Ohm rated amp with 1000 watts will power your system at a volume level beyond what you are willing to tolerate.

A 2 Ohm rating should meet the needs of 3 speakers at 8 Ohms, and should not cause damage to the receiver. The high wattage value gives you room before you push past the limit, and clip the speakers.

However, If you clip the speakers hard enough, you will find yourself with 6 dead drivers. Replacement for these drivers could cost a large amount of cash.

That is about as much information as we can give you. At this point you simply have to make up your own mind and decide. I wish I could give you a great answer, but their is none. I would personally get the 12 channel amp, then bridge each channel for 6 channels of high power, high current. Then power each speaker individually.

I worry most about the sound quality of these low priced Amps. Price is correlated with quality. Though that definately doesnt mean that there are exceptions. Just look (or do I mean listen) to the current B&W speakers.

Infact the history of Audio has been lined with examples of products that exceed all expectations of the past. About 40 years ago BOSE made a pair of speakers that were so great at the time that their brand value lives on today.
 
Haoleb

Haoleb

Audioholic Field Marshall
An amp that says "High Current" but doesnt say exactly how much output current is probably like those mini systems that say 600! WATTS. As Mtry stated, looking at the power output for 8,4 and 2 ohms does give you some idea.

Most amps that have a very high current rating state so in their specifications, Its something to be proud of! However im sure whatever you decide on will suffice. Amplfiers that are stable down to two or even 1 ohms arent usually cheap.
 
xboxweasel

xboxweasel

Full Audioholic
The Anthems were not exactly cheap. But not the most expensive beast on the block either. They are my first separate amp purchase. I don't think I went wrong with that choice. Everything is a learning curve. I know a little more about amps now. Still want to learn more. Sometimes getting answers is like pulling teeth. :D Then when I upgrade/change I have a better idea what I am getting.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
xboxweasel said:
Okay, but Haoleb said that "you [should] look for an amp that has high current capability rather than something with a high wattage rating". What exactly does that mean? Mine are rated for 200W(8ohm), 300(4ohm), and 410W(2ohm) continuous RMS 20-20kHz. So, high wattage or high current? Both? I am guessing that the voltage to the speakers is fairly constant 2-4VAC correct?

If an amp is rated for a certain output power into a certain impedance load, is what is important as that is what you can put your hands on and start figuring your needs from an amp.
Speakers impedance and sensitivity in combination of the rated power out.

Rail voltages go as high as 40+ Volts that ends up on the speaker terminal.
Some units, HK comes to mind, doesn't define their amp rated claims, what that means. Is it per channel max? All channels combined?

This is what I am talking about :
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/HighCurrentAmps.php
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
GreenJelly said:
When I talk about high current amps, I am talking about UL approved designs and labels that specifically state 4, 2 or 1 Ohm as their product capabilities.

Currently NO A/V receivers except for NAD and another (I forget who), are UL approved for 4 ohm's or less.
GreenJelly said:
I think you may be mistaken here. UL tests the 120V AC power into the component and current, not what impedance loads the amp can drive. That falls under FTC amp testing protocols.
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/pjay99/gurusdennis.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2000/12/amprule.htm


Simply put, low current amps are more likely to clip at or bellow their rated wattage when put on speakers that utilize that current.

Not so. If an amp is rated to RMS, that is before clipping, it will not clip before that rating, period. That is how the RMS power is established, before clipping power, continuous max power before clipping.

I worry most about the sound quality of these low priced Amps.

No need to as long as you stay within the stated design limits.

Price is correlated with quality.

Absolutely no correlation.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Haoleb said:
Most amps that have a very high current rating state so in their specifications, Its something to be proud of! .

Not really:D It says nothing about that current, like that 75A by some HK. Is that combined current to all channels at the speakers? Is that really in line with the power rating capability? Is it instantaneous? What does that really mean? Dynamic current for 20 mil sec?

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/amplifiers/HighCurrentAmps.php
 
xboxweasel

xboxweasel

Full Audioholic
Great. More info hidden behind a smoke screen. Why can't everything be stated in black and white? How else do you compare?

PS: I strongly believe that 98.6% of the time more expensive means better quality. Sometimes you can luck out. But time is money. R&D costs. Better components cost more. Etc. It all comes back to the end use to cover those costs. I've seen some simple amplifier schematics on the net. If they are no different than the big name amps then why doesn't everyone copy and paste? Cookie cutter components. I don't know about the electronics/math/physics. But I can tell a cheap component. They look/feel/smell and taste different. It's obvious.

PPS: I will check out those links later. Give them a read. Maybe I can learn something. BTW: the funny thing about learning....if I don't believe what I read I won't learn it. It just has to be false. :D
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Haoleb said:
An amp that says "High Current" but doesnt say exactly how much output current is probably like those mini systems that say 600! WATTS. As Mtry stated, looking at the power output for 8,4 and 2 ohms does give you some idea.

Most amps that have a very high current rating state so in their specifications, Its something to be proud of! However im sure whatever you decide on will suffice. Amplfiers that are stable down to two or even 1 ohms arent usually cheap.
I've got this car amp (rsa 800.1d) running two dual voice coil 4 ohm subs right now, and it does extremely well for extended periods of time. The subs are very inefficient and placed in a sealed enclosure. It wasn't a very expensive amp.

http://www.bazooka.com/productAutoAmplifiersRS.asp?id=201
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Are you runnuing this in a home environment or a car?

Buckeyefan 1 said:
I've got this car amp (rsa 800.1d) running two dual voice coil 4 ohm subs right now, and it does extremely well for extended periods of time. The subs are very inefficient and placed in a sealed enclosure. It wasn't a very expensive amp.

http://www.bazooka.com/productAutoAmplifiersRS.asp?id=201
once you answer, I'll tell where I'm going with this.

hint... it has all to do with the current capabilities of the power supply.
 
Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
xboxweasel said:
Great. More info hidden behind a smoke screen. Why can't everything be stated in black and white? How else do you compare?
Interestingly, I accidently stumbled across a report/inquiry posted online a few years ago by some government agency (FTC??) about regulating the claims made by amplifier companies regarding the actual output and performance claims made. It was based on HT becoming more and more popular and all the bs claims of wattage, distortion, etc. and how to make it more standardized so people can do an apples to apples type comparison of at least one feature. I'm not fully what if anything was resolved, or if they were just starting to begin looking into it. I wrote down the link somewhere, I'll have to see if I can find it, if anyone is interested.

Jack
 

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