help me find online TRS mono and stereo, XLR wall plates for church

[highfigh]

No, coax is for cable TV and satellite.

I don’t recall you mentioning that anything stereo was needed, and indeed nothing stereo should be needed on a stage – unless perhaps you’re running a headphone connection from the mixer to the stage?

All XLR cables are balanced.


Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Coax works fine for audio cables, although RG59 is easier to work with than RG6, especially when the RG6 is quad shield. Thousands of audio contractors use it on a regular basis and most companies make/sell RCA & BNC compression ends.

 

[mike c]

what do microphones normally terminate to? male XLR or female XLR? i'm guessing male ... so i'd buy the female wall plates?

what about the mixer side wall plate, what are the inputs on the mixer? (i'm guessing female, without checking my home mixer)

... do i buy a female or male wall plate? (i guess this one doesn't matter since i'll be making the patch cable myself)

 

[highfigh]

the link is perfect for mic cable! thanks

you have one for the cable i need for the other normal stuff?

PL = some people call the 1/4" TRS connector PL

the keyboard has a stereo out 1/4" female jack

PL must be a regional thing because I haven't seen that as a way to refer to 1/4" TRS.

How far does the keyboard cable need to be? If it needs to be able to stand up to people walking on it, I'm not sure the Dayton cable would be the best choice, although it's cheap enough that making up a spare cord isn't going to break the bank.

Check out Musician's Friend, too. They have all kinds of cable and plugs.

 

[mike c]

Coax works fine for audio cables, although RG59 is easier to work with than RG6, especially when the RG6 is quad shield. Thousands of audio contractors use it on a regular basis and most companies make/sell RCA & BNC compression ends.

so do i go belden RG59 or look for a dayton equivalent?

our belden RG59 is about 50centsUSD per meter.

PL must be a regional thing because I haven't seen that as a way to refer to 1/4" TRS.

How far does the keyboard cable need to be? If it needs to be able to stand up to people walking on it, I'm not sure the Dayton cable would be the best choice, although it's cheap enough that making up a spare cord isn't going to break the bank.

Check out Musician's Friend, too. They have all kinds of cable and plugs.

the dayton will be used for wall plate to wall plate connections, i figure, i'll buy the belden mic cable for the patch cable or just the exposed cables.

-------------------------------------

just to be sure before i hit the buy button ...

XLR = mic cable connection

right?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

you have one for the cable i need for the other normal stuff?

That cable will work for everything you've mentioned.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

just to be sure before i hit the buy button ...

XLR = mic cable connection

right?

Yes, a pre-made cable with a male XLR on one end and female on the other will work with any mic that has an XLR socket. Not sure why you're buying pre-made cables for this project, though. Those are cables for stage use, not under-stage.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[mike c]

Yes, a pre-made cable with a male XLR on one end and female on the other will work with any mic that has an XLR socket. Not sure why you're buying pre-made cables for this project, though. Those are cables for stage use, not under-stage.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

i'm not buying a pre-made cable, but i need to know what mics have on the other end so i can buy the appropriate wall plate gender.

if a mic has a male xlr connection, the female side of the mic cable will meet it with the male exposed on the other which means i need a female wall plate on that end ... right?

That cable will work for everything you've mentioned.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

the dayton shielded mic cable?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

i'm not buying a pre-made cable, but i need to know what mics have on the other end so i can buy the appropriate wall plate gender.

if a mic has a male xlr connection, the female side of the mic cable will meet it with the male exposed on the other which means i need a female wall plate on that end ... right?

I believe you already mentioned that you’re using wall plates at both ends, so you’ll need one of each gender for each cable run. Female for the stage end, male for the mixer end.

Instead of getting a plate for each cable, have you considered a plate with multiple connectors?

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=xlr wall plates

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?FTR=1/4"+wall+plates&search_type=main&WebPage_ID=3&searchFilter=1/4"+wall+plates&x=19&y=12

the dayton shielded mic cable?

Yes, it will work for everything you’ve mentioned – balanced, unbalanced, stereo, mono.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[mike c]

I believe you already mentioned that you’re using wall plates at both ends, so you’ll need one of each gender for each cable run. Female for the stage end, male for the mixer end.

Instead of getting a plate for each cable, have you considered a plate with multiple connectors?

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=xlr wall plates

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?FTR=1/4"+wall+plates&search_type=main&WebPage_ID=3&searchFilter=1/4"+wall+plates&x=19&y=12


Yes, it will work for everything you’ve mentioned – balanced, unbalanced, stereo, mono.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

yes, i'm getting the 4 gang for the XLR and TWO 4 gangs for the TRS

thanks

0000000000000000000000000

since the belden RG59 is about as cheap as the dayton cable, i'll get the belden here. easier to distinguish and wire as well.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

figure, i'll buy the belden mic cable for the patch cable or just the exposed cables.

So you ‘re going to make your own stage cables as well? That Belden looks like some kind of specialty or heavy-duty installation cable. I’d recommend this Mogami cable instead. Excellent stuff, and very easy to work with.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

Coax works fine for audio cables, although RG59 is easier to work with than RG6, especially when the RG6 is quad shield. Thousands of audio contractors use it on a regular basis and most companies make/sell RCA & BNC compression ends.

I know that; I used to install pro systems for a living. We never used it for anything except RF. For an installation using wall plate terminations like Mike’s doing, coax isn’t as easy to work with as install-grade mic cable. Plus he couldn't use it for balanced signals (unless he wanted to lay two cables – twice the price). On top of that, unless it has a copper shield, you might not be able to solder it.

All in all, not a good choice for this.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[mike c]

Yes, it will work for everything you’ve mentioned – balanced, unbalanced, stereo, mono.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

with more thought, i should be using the same cable for everything under the stage ...

the same cable can be used as a balanced mono TRS cable aside from the XLR cables

yeah ... duh for me.

i can solder the "100% aluminum/polyester foil shield " right?

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

i can solder the "100% aluminum/polyester foil shield " right?

Nope – cut off the foil and solder to the drain wire. That’s the bare wire with no colored insulation on it. It’s used for the shield connection – Pin 1 for XLR, sleeve for TS or TRS.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[mike c]

ok, finally got the cable (1000' spool) and the wallplates ... 5 months ...
2 months sitting in our US address
3 months shipping and delayed by US customs ...

this topic has been so old, i forgot everything i needed to know, so i'm bumping this up for reference and more questions:

1) so there's no such thing as stereo 1/4" TRS? if the jack is stereo ... it actually means balanced mono cable as opposed to unbalance mono cable?

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/xlr-jack-stereo.html

so the keyboard i saw using a stereo jack is actually a mono balanced cable?

2) anybody have a link that's similar to the above but for wall plates ... i know i can reverse think it ... but a minion would be doing this, and i'd prefer a printable diagram for them to follow.

3) them wall plates don't fit the local utility boxes (screws don't match) ... oh boy ... i can frankenstein two single gang plates to gether or i can make a wooden enclosure for all three wall plates ... comments or opinions?

 

[highfigh]

ok, finally got the cable (1000' spool) and the wallplates ... 5 months ...
2 months sitting in our US address
3 months shipping and delayed by US customs ...

this topic has been so old, i forgot everything i needed to know, so i'm bumping this up for reference and more questions:

1) so there's no such thing as stereo 1/4" TRS? if the jack is stereo ... it actually means balanced mono cable as opposed to unbalance mono cable?

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/xlr-jack-stereo.html

so the keyboard i saw using a stereo jack is actually a mono balanced cable?

2) anybody have a link that's similar to the above but for wall plates ... i know i can reverse think it ... but a minion would be doing this, and i'd prefer a printable diagram for them to follow.

3) them wall plates don't fit the local utility boxes (screws don't match) ... oh boy ... i can frankenstein two single gang plates to gether or i can make a wooden enclosure for all three wall plates ... comments or opinions?

TRS is just a three conductor plug. If it's used for balanced audio, you connect T to pin 2, R to pin 3 and S to pin 1. If you use it for unbalanced audio, you would generally use T as hot and tie R and S together for ground/shield. You can use the TRS plugs/jacks for mono by wiring it the same as unbalanced audio- it will work just as well as a plug that only has tip and sleeve but you'll want to use the sleeve tied to the ring, just in case the grounding clip in the jack lines up with the one that wasn't used (also, Murphy's Law means the clip will probably contact it where the two meet, at the insulating plastic) . For headphones, you would connect T to Left +, R to Right + and S to the common grounded lead. The keyboard may be stereo- check the manual or contact the manufacturer if you can't find any other info.

Wood won't provide any shielding and you really want shielding for low level audio.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

1) so there's no such thing as stereo 1/4" TRS? if the jack is stereo ... it actually means balanced mono cable as opposed to unbalance mono cable?

One of my pet peeves with the audio industry is the way they have traditionally used the same connectors for different applications, and this is a classic example of the confusion it can cause. TRS 1/4“ connectors can be used in pro audio for a balanced signal connection – one signal feed, so yes “mono.” The only “stereo” application they ever had, as far as I know, was for headphones, in both consumer and professional applications. So, the jack on the keyboard, if it says stereo, is probably for headphones. Typically that is NOT the so-called audio output for a keyboard (for the purposes of connecting to the sound system). There are usually other jacks for that.

3) them wall plates don't fit the local utility boxes (screws don't match) ... oh boy ... i can frankenstein two single gang plates to gether or i can make a wooden enclosure for all three wall plates

You’re not in the US? Actually, this is low voltage, so no boxes are required.

anybody have a link that's similar to the above but for wall plates ...

Parts Express, Markertek, Sweetwater, to name a few.

You can use the TRS plugs/jacks for mono by wiring it the same as unbalanced audio- it will work just as well as a plug that only has tip and sleeve but you'll want to use the sleeve tied to the ring, just in case the grounding clip in the jack lines up with the one that wasn't used (also, Murphy's Law means the clip will probably contact it where the two meet, at the insulating plastic) .

No, the structural wiring to be balanced, not unbalanced. The line can easily be turned to unbalanced by using a cable with TS plugs between the wall jack and the signal source (although that’s not the best idea). However, if you configure the structural wiring as unbalanced, that’s all it can ever be.

Typically ALL audio wiring between the stage and mix position balanced.

Wood won't provide any shielding and you really want shielding for low level audio.

??? The shielding is in the cable. Technically since it’s low voltage, no box is even required for a wall plate.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[highfigh]

No, the structural wiring to be balanced, not unbalanced. The line can easily be turned to unbalanced by using a cable with TS plugs between the wall jack and the signal source (although that’s not the best idea). However, if you configure the structural wiring as unbalanced, that’s all it can ever be.

Typically ALL audio wiring between the stage and mix position balanced.


??? The shielding is in the cable. Technically since it’s low voltage, no box is even required for a wall plate.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt




[/FONT]

TRS plugs and jacks can be wired for balanced or unbalanced- it's a matter of what's available. The ring and sleeve on a TRS is the same length as the sleeve on a TS plug but I have seen the grounding tab placed on some two conductor 1/4" jacks si it "kind of" hits the ring and sleeve in a way that makes the connection unreliable.

The cable is shielded but if it's soldered to the jack and the connections are out in the open, it's possible for noise to enter. Using a metallic box and connecting the jack to that helps to minimize noise. It's a matter of how many noise sources are present and how strong the fields are. Of course, less exposure to noise sources is best but sometimes they can't be avoided.

I know, I know- I have seen plastic and wooden boxes used to house this stuff, too. Doesn't mean it's the right way.

 

[WaynePflughaupt]

TRS plugs and jacks can be wired for balanced or unbalanced- it's a matter of what's available. The ring and sleeve on a TRS is the same length as the sleeve on a TS plug but I have seen the grounding tab placed on some two conductor 1/4" jacks si it "kind of" hits the ring and sleeve in a way that makes the connection unreliable.

I’m aware of the various ways a TRS jack can be wired. I've terminated more of them than I can remember. The point was that all structural wiring for a PA installation should be balanced. It would be plain nuts to pull in balanced cables and terminate them as unbalanced at a 1/4" TRS wall plate, so I’m unclear as to why you would muddy the waters by suggesting that it’s a viable option. It isn’t. If the TRS jack at a wall plate is defective it should be replaced, not “rigged” as TS. If 1/4" TS jacks are all that is "available," then the proper supplies should be secured.

The cable is shielded but if it's soldered to the jack and the connections are out in the open, it's possible for noise to enter.

I think perhaps you’re confusing a professional installation with a domestic installation that uses unbalanced wiring? I assure you, in a PA installation where balanced wiring is used throughout (at least that’s how it should be) noise from the lack of a metal box has is a non issue. If a PA system ends up with noise, it’s going to be some other problem. It’s quite common for professional sound contractors to install wall plates with no boxes at all. If noise was a valid problem they would not do it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

 

[mike c]

.Parts Express, Markertek, Sweetwater, to name a few.

i meant wiring diagrams for the wall plates i could follow, found a youtube vid, but i'd like a "blueprint" to follow

 

[TLS Guy]

i meant wiring diagrams for the wall plates i could follow, found a youtube vid, but i'd like a "blueprint" to follow

Here you go mike.

The wall plate of a TRS jack can be deduced from the plug.

Points to remember about using TRS plugs in balanced circuits.

You can insert an mono plug into a balanced socket and you will have a standard unbalanced circuit.

If you insert a balanced plug into a balanced socket the circuit will be balanced. This aspect is quite elegant.

However you can not use TRS connectors for phantom powered condenser microphones, as when you insert the plugs it shorts the 48 volt phantom supply and blows up the mixer.

If phantom powered microphones are to be used, as is usually the case in churches and auditoriums these days, the XLR or Neutric connectors must be used.

In your application I would strongly recommend XLR over TRS.

 

[highfigh]

I’m aware of the various ways a TRS jack can be wired. I've terminated more of them than I can remember. The point was that all structural wiring for a PA installation should be balanced. It would be plain nuts to pull in balanced cables and terminate them as unbalanced at a 1/4" TRS wall plate, so I’m unclear as to why you would muddy the waters by suggesting that it’s a viable option. It isn’t. If the TRS jack at a wall plate is defective it should be replaced, not “rigged” as TS. If 1/4" TS jacks are all that is "available," then the proper supplies should be secured.


I think perhaps you’re confusing a professional installation with a domestic installation that uses unbalanced wiring? I assure you, in a PA installation where balanced wiring is used throughout (at least that’s how it should be) http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gifnoise from the lack of a metal box has is a non issue. If a PA system ends up with noise, it’s going to be some other problem. It’s quite common for professional sound contractors to install wall plates with no boxes at all. If noise was a valid problem they would not do it.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

You need to remember that he's not in the US and can't just go to the local parts store for this stuff- it took 5 months to get what he ordered as it is, so he may need to use whatever he can get. I know balanced is how it should be done but if it will take another long period to get what he needs, he may need to improvise. How would you connect an unbalanced source to a balanced system if it's not a permanent part of the system and some kind of adapter isn't A) working or B) available?

I'm not arguing that the system should be balanced- I'm just offering comments for "What if?" situations, which I think many of us have been in before.

Some localities require metal conduit and boxes for ALL cabling, including low voltage. Chicago is one of them and I have worked there. The fact that some contractors install these with no box doesn't make it right- it just means they don't always use a box and we all know electricians don't care if they run their wires or sometimes bundle to someone elses' cabling. I've even had electricians run their Romex through the 1" hole I had used for my low voltage wires and then remove the pull cord I had installed to make MY life easier, not theirs.