Help for choosing Emotiva Amp Configuration

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I've been call many things, but fresh and innocent is a new one!

I was thinking of that joke about the engineer student who went into a Brain Pawn Shop to buy a different brain.

There were 4 brains available.

Brain#1 was a B.S. brain for $1,000.

Brain#2 was a M.S. brain for $2,000.

Brain#3 was a PhD brain for $4,000.

Brain#4 was a "Stupid" brain for $40,000.

The student asks the salesman, "Why is the stupid brain a lot more expensive than the PhD brain?"

The salesman replies, "Because it's Brand New, and all of the other brains are USED."

 

[Pyrrho]

Out of curiosity, how do you turn it all on at the same time with a remote?

The way it is done is by using preamp outputs to feed the channels. You see, a receiver is three components in one box:

1. A tuner or radio,
   
2. A preamplifier (often shortened to "preamp"), or control amp, that has things like input selectors, tone controls, volume control, etc., and
   
3. a power amplifier, which is what drives the speakers.

You can buy those things all separately, or in different combinations, as one can buy a tuner/preamp or an integrated amplifier (which is a preamp and power amp in one box), or you can buy them all together as a receiver. You can even buy mono power amps, one for each channel, if you want to maximize the number of boxes of electronic equipment you have.

Using preamp outputs on a receiver, one is past the volume control (see description of preamp above), so turning the volume control up or down on it affects the levels going into the power amps, thus affecting their output. It does not matter how many different power amps are thus hooked up, though during the setup of a surround system, one needs to adjust the levels going to each (which with most current surround receivers, is done automatically with a little microphone hooked up to it for the setup). If the power amps have level controls (many do not), they need to be set at an appropriate level before the automatic balancing with the receiver (or preamp or processor), which is often all the way up.

Not all receivers have preamp outputs, and with a receiver without such outputs, one cannot conveniently add a power amp.

Again, if you need more power, then getting more powerful power amplifiers is a good idea. But if you don't, then it is a total waste of money. So you should be reasonably certain that you need them before you buy them. Unless, of course, you like wasting your money on things that do nothing for you. In that case, you should send it to me, and I will happily do nothing for you, and that way we can both be happy.

 

[vgmbpty]

The way it is done is by using preamp outputs to feed the channels. You see, a receiver is three components in one box:

1. A tuner or radio,
   
2. A preamplifier (often shortened to "preamp"), or control amp, that has things like input selectors, tone controls, volume control, etc., and
   
3. a power amplifier, which is what drives the speakers.

You can buy those things all separately, or in different combinations, as one can buy a tuner/preamp or an integrated amplifier (which is a preamp and power amp in one box), or you can buy them all together as a receiver. You can even buy mono power amps, one for each channel, if you want to maximize the number of boxes of electronic equipment you have.

Using preamp outputs on a receiver, one is past the volume control (see description of preamp above), so turning the volume control up or down on it affects the levels going into the power amps, thus affecting their output. It does not matter how many different power amps are thus hooked up, though during the setup of a surround system, one needs to adjust the levels going to each (which with most current surround receivers, is done automatically with a little microphone hooked up to it for the setup). If the power amps have level controls (many do not), they need to be set at an appropriate level before the automatic balancing with the receiver (or preamp or processor), which is often all the way up.

Not all receivers have preamp outputs, and with a receiver without such outputs, one cannot conveniently add a power amp.

Again, if you need more power, then getting more powerful power amplifiers is a good idea. But if you don't, then it is a total waste of money. So you should be reasonably certain that you need them before you buy them. Unless, of course, you like wasting your money on things that do nothing for you. In that case, you should send it to me, and I will happily do nothing for you, and that way we can both be happy.

Thank you Phyrro, but I was meaning on the AC power. It is nice to use my Harmony One and turn on everything. I've dealt with pro amps before (not in HT environments though) and having to turn them on/off manually each time. The answer is probably related to 12V triggers. I can imagine how to turn on one, but the rest would require more hardware right?

 

[vgmbpty]

The Denon 990 is the same as the 3310. You can get it for 57% off now on amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002AKKFRG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0K2HVA5VT9ZMA6Y0QYC6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

With 120WPC x 5Ch, it should be enough for most speakers.

I have the BP7000s & BP7001s. At one point I was driving the BP7000 with a 50WPC Harman Kardon receiver and it was just fine.

You don't need any extenal amps, but if you want to try anyway you could always hook one up to your receiver later.

This is not a bad suggestion at all. Took me a while to answer becasue I have been reading and pondering. When you come to think about the features that I need, most are either there or there is a work around. For example:

-24/96 vs 24/192: Have´t tried it myself, but have read you can hardly tell the difference, specially becasue most material is not recorded that high.

-HDMI 1.4: You can use HDMI 1.3, and if you go to 3D, just hook the video from the player directly to the 3D TV, which most probably will have more than one HDMI input. The audio from the player can come out through optical or analog outs.

-Audyssey XT vs XT32: Given that its acknowledged by most that after better speakers, room correction is the next most influential thing on the sound, it is important, but again, how much improved may depend on the type of room, setup, etc. Is it like that or am I underplaying its importance?

The other features important for me seem to be covered: PAL compatibility, analog inputs, dynamic volume control, trigger, pre outs, video scaling, up conversion, etc. The last two are important when watching regular TV.

Unless somebody tells me that the sound quality of this Denon AVR-990 is perceivable inferior to a AV/SR7005 (for example), Its becoming difficult to justify spending the $800 difference. Heck, those $800 would pay for the external amp!

I'm I missing something or have I just been enlightened?

 

[Pyrrho]

Thank you Phyrro, but I was meaning on the AC power. It is nice to use my Harmony One and turn on everything. I've dealt with pro amps before (not in HT environments though) and having to turn them on/off manually each time. The answer is probably related to 12V triggers. I can imagine how to turn on one, but the rest would require more hardware right?

There are two possibilities. As you have suggested, some receivers and some amplifiers have 12v triggers just for that purpose (the receiver sends a 12v signal to the amplifier, which has a 12v sensor, and when the amplifier receives that signal, it turns on). There is a separate wire for this, separate from any of the audio or video connections. And you can typically hook up multiple amplifiers this way (you would want to read the manuals for how to do this).

Not all gear has 12v triggers, but it can also be managed with something like:

http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Strip-SCG4-Autoswitching-Technology/dp/B000L9A7ZS/

With a device like that, you don't need anything built in to any of the gear you own. You just plug the receiver into the "Control Outlet" and the amplifiers into the automatically switched outlets, and, if necessary, adjust the sensitivity control on the outlet strip, so that when the receiver is turned on, that outlet strip senses the power going through that "Control Outlet" and turns on the power to the automatically switched outlets.

The reason for the sensitivity control is because most gear draws some power all the time (anything that can be turned on with a remote is always drawing power, so that its sensor is on so that it can detect the signal coming from the remote), and so the control is for how much power is drawn before the automatically switched outlets are turned on.

And when that power is no longer going through the "Control Outlet" because the receiver is turned off, the outlet strip shuts off the automatically switched outlet.

If the sensitivity range is satisfactory for the gear one has, and if the current drawn is less than the rating for the device (the one to which I linked is rated for 15 amps, like a typical home circuit, so if it cannot handle all of your power needs, you had better make sure your house circuit is up for what you want to do), it works like a charm. I use such devices to shut off all power to my computer peripheries, and for my power amp for my subwoofers, and for my power amp in my main 2 channel system, and it can be used for anything you want to be controlled by whether or not something else is on.

 

[GlocksRock]

You aren't missing anything, and you still would likely not need the amp(s), but you might as well get one anyway since that receiver has preouts.

 

[Pyrrho]

This is not a bad suggestion at all. Took me a while to answer becasue I have been reading and pondering. When you come to think about the features that I need, most are either there or there is a work around. For example:

-24/96 vs 24/192: Have´t tried it myself, but have read you can hardly tell the difference, specially becasue most material is not recorded that high.

-HDMI 1.4: You can use HDMI 1.3, and if you go to 3D, just hook the video from the player directly to the 3D TV, which most probably will have more than one HDMI input. The audio from the player can come out through optical or analog outs.

-Audyssey XT vs XT32: Given that its acknowledged by most that after better speakers, room correction is the next most influential thing on the sound, it is important, but again, how much improved may depend on the type of room, setup, etc. Is it like that or am I underplaying its importance?

The other features important for me seem to be covered: PAL compatibility, analog inputs, dynamic volume control, trigger, pre outs, video scaling, up conversion, etc. The last two are important when watching regular TV.

Unless somebody tells me that the sound quality of this Denon AVR-990 is perceivable inferior to a AV/SR7005 (for example), Its becoming difficult to justify spending the $800 difference. Heck, those $800 would pay for the external amp!

I'm I missing something or have I just been enlightened?

It is hard to justify a high priced receiver. If you need some special feature or other, then you might need one, and it might make an audible difference if one needs more power than the lesser unit (though if that is what one needs, separate power amps are probably the better approach). But as for sound quality when used within the limits of the lower powered unit, unless the settings are different or one is defective, you will never hear a difference between two competently designed and made units.

For a little more on this, you might want to look at:

http://home.provide.net/~djcarlst/abx_pwr.htm

(Notice the one response curve that is displayed, which explains why that amplifier would sound different. But no decent receiver or amplifier is going to have such a poor frequency response curve.)

And you might want to spend some time at other portions of that site as well.


I probably should have mentioned in my story about my system above, that my $1700 receiver was purchased as a discontinued model and open box item from an authorized dealer, and I paid less than a third of its retail price. Even though I have actually spent thousands on my speakers (though less than retail price), I would never pay $1700 for a receiver, as it is absolutely not necessary for having great sound. I think somewhere around $600 retail is good for the features (though I have never actually paid that much for a receiver), and if one does not need whatever the latest model has, one can often get a good deal on a discontinued model. Often, models like mine have a very big percentage markdown when discontinued, as it is not a top of the line unit, and one can buy a pretty good new model for far less anyway, so its appeal becomes more limited and the price reflects that. (I have nothing against higher end models, if I can get them for the price of lesser units.)

Regarding your final question, it would appear that you are becoming enlightened.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is not a bad suggestion at all. Took me a while to answer becasue I have been reading and pondering. When you come to think about the features that I need, most are either there or there is a work around. For example:

-24/96 vs 24/192: Have´t tried it myself, but have read you can hardly tell the difference, specially becasue most material is not recorded that high.

-HDMI 1.4: You can use HDMI 1.3, and if you go to 3D, just hook the video from the player directly to the 3D TV, which most probably will have more than one HDMI input. The audio from the player can come out through optical or analog outs.

-Audyssey XT vs XT32: Given that its acknowledged by most that after better speakers, room correction is the next most influential thing on the sound, it is important, but again, how much improved may depend on the type of room, setup, etc. Is it like that or am I underplaying its importance?

The other features important for me seem to be covered: PAL compatibility, analog inputs, dynamic volume control, trigger, pre outs, video scaling, up conversion, etc. The last two are important when watching regular TV.

Unless somebody tells me that the sound quality of this Denon AVR-990 is perceivable inferior to a AV/SR7005 (for example), Its becoming difficult to justify spending the $800 difference. Heck, those $800 would pay for the external amp!

I'm I missing something or have I just been enlightened?

The AVR-990/AVR-3310 will sound identical to the any Marantz AVR or pre-pro at any price.

Unfortunately, I just checked amazon, and the price has gone up from $650 to $700. It is still a great price.

But if you are serious, I would call J&R Music World and talk to Jacque. Tell him that the price last week on J&R website was $650 + free s/h. If he can match last week's price, then you would buy it.

 

[vgmbpty]

I'm serious. Checked J&Rs website but the AVR-990 is not shown. Called J&R, talked to a John. I just asked for the price and he said $649. I asked if that included shipping and he said yes so I ordered it. Thank you.

 

[m_vanmeter]

make sure you can convert the local electricity to 60 cycle, 120 Volts AC easily and whatever the conversion method is it can handle the power draw of all this top end equipment. Otherwise you will have a nice pile of boat anchors sitting in a corner without adequate power.

 

[vgmbpty]

make sure you can convert the local electricity to 60 cycle, 120 Volts AC easily and whatever the conversion method is it can handle the power draw of all this top end equipment. Otherwise you will have a nice pile of boat anchors sitting in a corner without adequate power.

Thank you for the heads up. It was the first thing I checked, its the same as US.