Help for choosing Emotiva Amp Configuration

[vgmbpty]

Hi everybody.
I would really appreciate your input and help, sorry for the long post, but giving the most information upfront may be the better way to use your wisdom and time.

Here is what I have so far for my new HT: Def Tech L/R BP7001, C/L/R 3000, SL/SR BPVX.

These are some considerations:

- I do 60% TV/movies, 20% gaming, 20% music
- As a musician aficionado I’m usually critical of how the music should sound, although I’m not fixed on 2 channel only listening.
- Room is average 14x18x8 feet
- Don’t need a lot of volume, has never endured my Yamaha RXV-565 above -10dB (This is with Bose 301 speakers)
- Will be doing 5.1 but plan to grow into 7.1 in the future
- For freight and duties issues I would like to purchase this one right from the beginning.

What combination of Emotiva Amps do you recommend? After reading so many threads I’ve come up with an Excel table with 14 different possibilities of either single or combinations of amps, LOL! My favorites (on paper) are:

1. (2) UPA-1s + UPA-5 / $1.2K. Awesome for channel separation and music, but worried about the center channel may not get enough power… movie dialogues, etc. How do I make the 3 amps to turn on/off at the same time?

2. (2) UPA-1s + XPA-5 / $1.5K. Awesome for channel separation, music, enough power for the center, but among the most expensive combinations. This looks like the best one to me, only concerned about how to turn on/off 3 amps.

3. (1) UPA-2 + UPA-5 / $0.9K. Super price! Balanced L/C/R, but worried if it’s enough power for them. UPA-2 on wait list. Only two amps!

4. (1) XPA-2 + UPA-5 /$1.35K. Good power for L/R, good stereo, concerned about the center speaker getting enough power. Will music sound better than option 2? . Have read XPA-2 is very good but can be a little harsh. Only two amps.

5. Get and UPA-7 /$0.7K and call it a day? Single amp solution!

Thanks

 

[pelennor]

Hi everybody.
I would really appreciate your input and help, sorry for the long post, but giving the most information upfront may be the better way to use your wisdom and time.

Here is what I have so far for my new HT: Def Tech L/R BP7001, C/L/R 3000, SL/SR BPVX.

These are some considerations:

- I do 60% TV/movies, 20% gaming, 20% music
- As a musician aficionado I’m usually critical of how the music should sound, although I’m not fixed on 2 channel only listening.
- Room is average 14x18x8 feet
- Don’t need a lot of volume, has never endured my Yamaha RXV-565 above -10dB (This is with Bose 301 speakers)
- Will be doing 5.1 but plan to grow into 7.1 in the future
- For freight and duties issues I would like to purchase this one right from the beginning.

What combination of Emotiva Amps do you recommend?

You seem most concerned about your center and mains performance, so I'm going to suggest using the XPA-3, and then combine that with either a UPA-2 (then add another UPA-2 later when you want 7.1), or a UPA-5 (since a single UPA-5 is slightly cheaper overall than 2 x UPA-2s)

However, your biggest problem is that your current receiver doesn't seem to have pre-outs for any channels except the sub. So unfortunately you're not going to be able to do this unless you get a receiver with pre-outs, or a processor like the UMC-1 first.

 

[vgmbpty]

That's right . All the Def Techs are for another room, not connected yet. Currently I'm using the Yamaha RXV-565, YST-SW315 (subwoofer) and the Bose 301s in the bedroom. Frankly speaking I have not decided on which Pre/pro to buy. It's going to be a tough one for me because I will not be able to audition them, so comments on this respect are also welcome.

I like (on paper) the Denon 4311 (connected as a Pre/pro), the Marantz AV7005 and the Onkyo PR-SC5508. I gave up on the Integras 40.2/80.2 because I cannot buy them online.

I like the XPA-3 option because the three fronts would have equal power, on the other hand, I have read its similar to the XPA-5, which at the same time has been labeled as inferior to the XPA-2.

 

[bandphan]

5 x these would get plenty o power

 

[GlocksRock]

Go with the UPA-7 and be done with it, no sense in running multiple amps which would require several 12v triggers, and more power outlets to be used up. The def techs don't need a ton of power to get very loud. I also have BP7001SC towers, a CLR3000, and a pair of BPX, and BP10s all running off of a 150x7 Emotiva IPS-1 and it sounds fantastic. Just use the extra 2 channels of the 7 ch. amp to bi-amp your front speakers until you go 7.1.

 

[Pyrrho]

Unless there is an impedance mismatch (which I don't think applies in your case), I recommend that you try it first with the amplifiers in your receiver to see if it will be adequate. If you don't need more power, then it would be a waste of money to buy any power amplifiers.

 

[m_vanmeter]

^ +1

Def Tech BP-7001 towers are pretty efficient speakers, sensitivity is 92db, so for modest room size and normal listening they should not need huge external amplifiers.

Try them with your current AVR. IF you move up to a higher grade AVR like those you mentioned, then again, try your speakers with the receiver and no external amps. I think you will be more than satisfied with the results.

ONLY after determining you think you really "need" more power, should you consider external amplifiers, and probably then only for the front 3 speakers. Damn near any AVR can handle the surrounds.

 

[vgmbpty]

bandphan,


Well, this certainly opened a lot of possibilities! I've used pro amps for playing keyboards for years, but was not sure how would those work for a HT. I guess the only issues would be fan noise and XLR inputs, not big deal I believe. You just gave me a lot to read again

Thx,

 

[vgmbpty]

In two months i will be relocated to another country and have a few bucks extra from the signing bonus. I get the chance to take with me a container with my stuff and not pay taxes, once. The condition is that when I return I have to bring my stuff back.

If I try to buy local from the new country, the prices of A/V are easily 2X or 3X of US pricing. If I move and then buy from US, will end up paying very expensive freight and import duties. This is why I'm trying to buy everything at once before I move and just load the container.

I will be leaving my Yamaha AVR, so most definitely I will buy either the 4311 or a Pre/pro. Have decided to stick to 5.1 and use the extra channel to hook up my k/b.

Thank you for your feedback. Now my options seem to be:

1. Wait for the 4311 and use it as it is. Will this leave me thinking I will be missing the "how the sound opens" sensation described when you hook an external amp to an AVR?

Also I would have to hook my k/b to zone 2. The AVR would have to play the signal coming from a CD and the k/b at the same time (this is how I would practice at home). Total: $2K.

2. Get the 4311 and a UPA-5 to drive the 3 fronts. Let the Denon drive the surrounds and leave the 2 spare amp channels to hook the k/b. Total=$1,999 + $549 = $2,548

3. Get one of the Pre/pros and a UPA-7.
If I choose Marantz AV7005, Total = $1,500 + $699 = $2,199

I like options 2 and 3. So now its Denon 4311 Vs Marantz AV7005 Vs Onkyo PR-SC5508.

 

[mannoiaj]

I agree with the other posters and would go with the upa-7 if I was dead set on a separate amp. It will give your speakers all that they would need, and was recently reviewed quite well. The icing on the cake is that it will hold it's value well imo.

 

[GlocksRock]

Get the 4311 and an external amp, use preamp mode and your emotiva to run your 5.1 setup, and use the internal amps for your zone 2 with the keyboard.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Go with the UPA-7 and be done with it.

I agree.

If you are set on 7.1, then get the UPA-7.

If you are okay with 5.1 (like me), then get the XPA-5.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The Denon 990 is the same as the 3310. You can get it for 57% off now on amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002AKKFRG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0K2HVA5VT9ZMA6Y0QYC6&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

With 120WPC x 5Ch, it should be enough for most speakers.

I have the BP7000s & BP7001s. At one point I was driving the BP7000 with a 50WPC Harman Kardon receiver and it was just fine.

You don't need any extenal amps, but if you want to try anyway you could always hook one up to your receiver later.

 

[vgmbpty]

Thank you for your suggestions, they are most welcome.

Now I have another question, please do not take this wrong way, but it is kind of funny to me that most of you seem to have more elaborate setups and have been steering me towards a simpler ones.

Does that mean that the extra amps, better DACs and other features really do not make a difference in the sound? Or you just want me to enjoy the upgraditis bug for a longer time?

 

[Pyrrho]

Thank you for your suggestions, they are most welcome.

Now I have another question, please do not take this wrong way, but it is kind of funny to me that most of you seem to have more elaborate setups and have been steering me towards a simpler ones.

Does that mean that the extra amps, better DACs and other features really do not make a difference in the sound? Or you just want me to enjoy the upgraditis bug for a longer time?

In my case, in my home theater system, I have speakers that retail for about $6500, with a receiver that retails for $1700. I only use a separate power amp for the subwoofers because they are unpowered (i.e., they do not have a built-in amplifier, so one must use a separate power amp with them). I use my receiver's amplification for my speakers. I previously had a receiver that retailed for $600 with these same speakers. Unless I engage a feature that affects the sound, it sounds the same as before, even though I now have about twice as much power. I bought the newer receiver for its features, not for its extra power. Now, if my speakers were very inefficient or extremely difficult to drive, then I would use power amps. But they are not, so I do not waste my money on amplifiers I don't need.

It would be stupid for me to have spent the money on more amplification with lesser speakers, for the same total outlay of money, because it would not sound as good that way.

If you wish to waste money on power amps you don't need, that is your choice. But you would be better off putting your money into your speakers where it will actually affect the sound.

And you are right, that some people have found out the expensive way that they did not need extra amplifiers, as they added them, and after the effect of the newness of the new toys wore off on them, they came to realize that it did not help the sound. You can learn that way, or, like so many others, you might be convinced by the placebo effect that your new thing makes a difference when it really doesn't.

According to Definitive Technology, you can get by with as little as 20 watts with your main speakers (which power their own subwoofers anyway). Of course, if you listen to them very loud, you may want more power, but your receiver already has more power. With your speakers in any normal room, the only way you need a lot of power is if you listen at sound levels that will damage your hearing. That would be foolish, but many people do that, and you can buy the equipment for that purpose if you wish.

At the end of the day, it is your money, and you can spend it however you like, regardless of whether it will make an actual improvement in the sound or not.

 

[jostenmeat]

bandphan,


Well, this certainly opened a lot of possibilities! I've used pro amps for playing keyboards for years, but was not sure how would those work for a HT. I guess the only issues would be fan noise and XLR inputs, not big deal I believe. You just gave me a lot to read again

Thx,

I have a newer Crown XTI amp that I power my sub with (which has two drivers), and the fan has not once been triggered yet. XLR is no problemo, get an XLR/RCA for maybe $8.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=xlr&x=0&y=0

The one issue that HAS bothered me is that it is VERY bright. Even window tint doesn't do the trick. I had to use opaque black tape to cover both display and even the power light. However, my rack is on the back wall, facing forward, in a light controlled dedicated theater. Still, for a lights off direct view television viewer, I am led to believe it's still too bright, if say mine were in the front. Have no idea if this is an issue with the XLS. If your amps are hidden, then obviously it's a moot point.

Thank you for your suggestions, they are most welcome.

Now I have another question, please do not take this wrong way, but it is kind of funny to me that most of you seem to have more elaborate setups and have been steering me towards a simpler ones.

Does that mean that the extra amps, better DACs and other features really do not make a difference in the sound? Or you just want me to enjoy the upgraditis bug for a longer time?

A wide open question.

In reality, any of your proposed combos will work.

We don't want you to enjoy upgraditis for a longer time, because you will anyways, but I think of it as getting to ride the upgraditis for longer with the same budget. If you unnecessarily blow your budget on things that make a smaller difference, welp, too bad you don't have that money anymore for things that do make a difference. IE, display, room (both acoustics and visual treatment), speakers, subwoofers. IOW, the things that make by far the most difference for the money are the things that actually create what you see and what you hear.

If convenience is a total non factor, I'd get two Crowns. (I only would think of powering your front three with outboard really.) If a combination of convenience and power is important, perhaps an XPA3, but I havent looked at the cost difference between that and say a UPA7. Anyways, any of these combos are fine.

The only reason to go BIG is in case of future proofing for either much larger rooms, much tougher speakers, and much higher SPL, or in fact a combination of the above. (Think multi row dedicated theater with a 50 sq ft screen.)


EDIT: It looks like Pyrrho are saying the same exact thing, with different words.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...please do not take this wrong way, but it is kind of funny to me that most of you seem to have more elaborate setups and have been steering me towards a simpler ones.

Does that mean that the extra amps, better DACs and other features really do not make a difference in the sound? Or you just want me to enjoy the upgraditis bug for a longer time?

Your mind is still new, fresh, and innocent, and we don't want to corrupt you this early in your development.

The truth is this: amps, pre-amps, cables, DACs, & CD players all sound great in Direct Mode (no EQs, no Tones, etc.) when connected to great sounding speakers.

They will also all sound bad when connected to bad sounding speakers.

Some rare gifted people may be able to hear the difference, but most of us mere mortals cannot tell the difference.

The MONEY is in the speakers; great speakers will sound great in most cases.

Most speakers and systems don't require that much power at all. The woofer/subwoofers require the most power, but the midrange and tweeters do not require much power at all.

For example, it is "safe" for most people to say that the midrange & tweeters may never require more than 60 watts of power in a 25' x 25' x 12' room.

However, the woofers/subwoofers may require 120 watts of power.

This is especially true if your speakers have a sensitivity of > 90dB w/m, which means that they require only 1 watt of power to produce a sound level of 90dB (that's pretty loud) from a distance of 1 meter (~3 ft away).

 

[GranteedEV]

3x UPA-1 for the front soundstage
1x UPA-5 for the four rears

 

[vgmbpty]

3x UPA-1 for the front soundstage
1x UPA-5 for the four rears

Out of curiosity, how do you turn it all on at the same time with a remote?

 

[vgmbpty]

Your mind is still new, fresh, and innocent, and we don't want to corrupt you this early in your development.

I've been call many things, but fresh and innocent is a new one!