Help finding appropriate surrounds

[sven1olaf]

We recently moved, and I had to leave behind my well designed room, and walk into a new opportunity.

There new room has x4 Phoenix gold Atc6's in the ceiling, an oddly shaped layout, and a limiting built-in.

Long term, I'm working on getting ideas to resolve the built in, but this will most likely require construction of some sort.

Short term, is like to at least get into a proper 5.2 setup. The placement of the in ceilings it's very narrow, and straddles the front and back of the listening position.

My thinking is to try to find some decent speakers on stands for surrounds. Dealing with rear surrounds will be more challenging... Though I'm open to ideas.

Current gear: upgrade ideas are welcome

AVR: marantz SR5007
Player: Oppo bdp-103
Player: PS4 Pro
L/R: Focal 807v
C: Focal 800v
Surrounds: x4 in ceiling 6.5" Phoenix gold Atc6 (these came with the house)
Subs: x2 Sunfire HRS-12
Display: Panasonic 65st50

TIA

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[sven1olaf]

***UPDATE***

Budget - destruction

Speakers: about $1000-1200, pair
Sub/s: about $1000
Amp: $800-1200
AVR: $900.00

SPEAKERS
Klipsch rp-402sw 599.99
emotiva e2 399.99
focal Aria Sr 900 1299.99
triad

AMPS
outlaw 5000 649.99
monoprice monolith 5 1299.99
emotiva a5175 799.99

AVRS
marantz sr-7012 899.99
Denon x4500h 999.99
Denon x4400h 749.99

SUBS
svs pc-2000 799.99
svs pc-4000 1799.99




Most likely get a 5 channel amp/AVR for these. Id like to have a quality amp to have on board to even t the response and last the AVR stay cool. Thinking the Outlaw 5000, monolith 5, emotiva a5175, but am open to suggestions.

Also, will the pre outs and brains of my Marantz sr5007 be good enough, or is an upgrade in order? Any suggestions?

I can't kick the thinking that I want the best brains for my amp. the x4400 and sr7012 seem like nice options.

And then... While I adore my Sunfire subs, is may be time to move on. I'm going to trial a pc-2000 and a pc-4000 to really test how fast I can spend more money.

And then there's the surrounds, the reason we came here. I've gotten some great offerings with a good price spread. The emotiva e2, Klipsch rp-402sw, and the focal Aria Sr 900. All of these seem great. I'm gonna have to listen to them and report back.

I just stumbled upon triad's onwall systems. The surrounds seem very nice, 4 ohm. Then there's their L/C/R sounbars, passive, 4 ohm. These got me thinking. I could get the biggest, best, most appropriate sounds bar that rests right at the foot of the TV. This eliminates the bookshelves in the upper cubbies, and the gasping center channel.

This would have to a powerful little soundbar! I'm sure it sounds great, but I have to admit I'm skeptical.

 

[HTfreak2004]

Just a thought given the openness of your room and connection to adjoining rooms plus the Limit options for where you can place the LCR channels I think you would benefit most from 2 Klipsch RP-402SW

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[Verdinut]

Budget:

Speakers: about $1000-1200, pair

Most likely will need a 2 or 5 channel amp/AVR for these. I would be good with a quality amp to have on hand. Thinking the Outlaw 5000, but am open to suggestions.

Also, will the pre outs and brains of my Marantz sr5007 be good enough, or is an upgrade in order? Any suggestions?


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The Outlaw 5000 is a very good 5 channel amp. The Monoprice Monolith 5 unit would also be a good recommendation. You may be more attracted by the looks of this one.

As for your SR5007, it should answer your needs. I noticed that it also allows the 4K Pass Through which is to me a required feature if you intend to view UHD discs.

 

[sven1olaf]

Just a thought given the openness of your room and connection to adjoining rooms plus the Limit options for where you can place the LCR channels I think you would benefit most from 2 Klipsch RP-402SW

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Hi HTFreak (great name btw),

I'll take a look at the rp-402sw's. I like that they should be able to fill the odd space effectively without suffering from strict positioning requirements.

Can you think of 1 or 2 parallel suggestions to these. I'm working on familiarizing myself with the latest offerings, but admittedly am pretty behind the curve.

Thanks again!

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[sven1olaf]

The Outlaw 5000 is a very good 5 channel amp. The Monoprice Monolith 5 unit would also be a good recommendation. You may be more attracted by the looks of this one.

As for your SR5007, it should answer your needs. I noticed that it also allows the 4K Pass Through which is to me a required feature if you intend to view UHD discs.

Hi Verdinut,

That marantz sr-5007 was my attempt to try to future proof (and allow me to spend more on my L/R's and get a second sub) 5 years ago. I still don't have a 4k display, though that will happen sometime soon, thinking c7 oled. Now the one feature I wish it had was wifi... And the new Audyssey app.

Oh well. The new sr-7012 looks appealing if I can justify the expense. But a dedicated amp need the best brains in can get...I think.

Do you have any advice on an AVR or Pre-pro to match with the amp?

Thanks again,

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[HTfreak2004]

Interesting speaker with very flexible installation options and certainly makes a viable option in your situation

Emotiva E2

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[HTfreak2004]

This is the priciest in my suggestion, it is from your brand Focal. It’s a bit over budget but maybe you can get a sale or used pair, open box, b-stock etc if you don’t want to shell out an extra $100

Aria SR 900

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[sven1olaf]

Interesting speaker with very flexible installation options and certainly makes a viable option in your situation

Emotiva E2

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Awesome!

I'll add these to my research list.

Quick question: does the beveled face of these speakers cause problems with directionality? I am really familiar with this type of speaker.

Thanks again!

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[sven1olaf]

This is the priciest in my suggestion, it is from your brand Focal. It’s a bit over budget but maybe you can get a sale or used pair, open box, b-stock etc if you don’t want to shell out an extra $100

Aria SR 900

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Added to the list as well.

So, is the benefit of these that can deal with the surround AND rear surround channels in one package?

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[HTfreak2004]

Awesome!

I'll add these to my research list.

Quick question: does the beveled face of these speakers cause problems with directionality? I am really familiar with this type of speaker.

Thanks again!

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Dipoles generally are better creating enveloping surround then say speakers with all drivers on the face of the cabinet. With surround speakers directional sound is less important than from the LCR channels. Its likely using a bookshelf speaker like what is in your pictures above will be more direct but your space is not ideal for such a speaker in my opinion for surrounds. That however is just an opinion. The Emotiva E2 is giving you more options than the Klipsch or Focal so far as installation however it’s really a matter of taste. I would audition all three options if you are patient enough. Perhaps the dealer will have no problem with your trying them in your setup or hopefully will have a demo room for your convenience.


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[HTfreak2004]

Added to the list as well.

So, is the benefit of these that can deal with the surround AND rear surround channels in one package?

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Again You can get s very precise sound image from a well manufactured dipole however since surrounds a meant to deal with in my opinion a larger dispersion area than a direct firing speaker pinpoint accuracy is less important, not unimportant. Obviously two different designs such as dipoles mated with a good pair of direct firing rear speakers is more optimal but you can use 2 pairs of dipoles and have them set at different heights to cover a broader area. That would be a 7.1 setup though. Normally a 5.1 set up uses 2 dipoles for greater surround dispersion. Using a direct firing bookshelf requires a smart manufacturer that can create a speaker with great off-axis dispersion. That usually costs more than using a properly built dipole.


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[sven1olaf]

Again You can get s very precise sound image from a well manufactured dipole however since surrounds a meant to deal with in my opinion a larger dispersion area than a direct firing speaker pinpoint accuracy is less important, not unimportant. Obviously two different designs such as dipoles mated with a good pair of direct firing rear speakers is more optimal but you can use 2 pairs of dipoles and have them set at different heights to cover a broader area. That would be a 7.1 setup though. Normally a 5.1 set up uses 2 dipoles for greater surround dispersion. Using a direct firing bookshelf requires a smart manufacturer that can create a speaker with great off-axis dispersion. That usually costs more than using a properly built dipole.


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Great info!

I will see if I can audition all of these options. The idea of having well done 5.2 is more appealing to me than just ok 7.2.

Thanks again for helping me accelerate the learning curve.

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[sven1olaf]

Again You can get s very precise sound image from a well manufactured dipole however since surrounds a meant to deal with in my opinion a larger dispersion area than a direct firing speaker pinpoint accuracy is less important, not unimportant. Obviously two different designs such as dipoles mated with a good pair of direct firing rear speakers is more optimal but you can use 2 pairs of dipoles and have them set at different heights to cover a broader area. That would be a 7.1 setup though. Normally a 5.1 set up uses 2 dipoles for greater surround dispersion. Using a direct firing bookshelf requires a smart manufacturer that can create a speaker with great off-axis dispersion. That usually costs more than using a properly built dipole.


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Also, are there any other speakers I should be considering? I'm willing to stretch the budget if it is a justified upgrade.

Thanks again,

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[Verdinut]

Hi Verdinut,

That marantz sr-5007 was my attempt to try to future proof (and allow me to spend more on my L/R's and get a second sub) 5 years ago. I still don't have a 4k display, though that will happen sometime soon, thinking c7 oled. Now the one feature I wish it had was wifi... And the new Audyssey app.

Oh well. The new sr-7012 looks appealing if I can justify the expense. But a dedicated amp need the best brains in can get...I think.

Do you have any advice on an AVR or Pre-pro to match with the amp?

Thanks again,

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The Marantz SR7012 is very appealing, but you could get the Denon AVR-X4400H for less with most of the same features. Please bear in mind that Denon and Marantz are both built by the same owning firm: D & M.

You can get the Denon from Amazon for $899, or a factory refurbished one for $750 from Accessories4less, a recommended online store.

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx4400h/denon-avr-x4400h-9.2-ch-x-125-watts-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html

You can get a refurbished SR7012 for $900:

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/marsr7012/marantz-sr7012-9.2-ch-x-125-watts-a/v-receiver-w/heos/1.html

 

[HTfreak2004]

Personally a good pair of dipoles will usually run the same price as a good centre channel in the same product line. I have a dedicated home theatre with paradigm studio 40 version 2 as my surrounds. I purchased them in 2004. They were originally my mains but became my surrounds when I later purchased the paradigm studio 100 version 3’s for mains. Anyway my centre from paradigm model cc570 was 1200.00 at that time and the studio 40’s were 1299.00. The studio 40s have excellent dispersion for a bookshelf speaker I have on stands however. I wouldn’t use those in your setup since my room layout could even accommodate Dolby Atmos if I wanted it. Not to get to far off topic but a well chosen 5.1 system with quality speakers, sub, and separates will stand the test of time. Our ears do not change because electronics do. Physical limitations of a room do not adapt because we place speakers inside them. We are bound by the physical air volume of that space, any unblocked openings like in your room and the shape of the rooms architecture. I don’t see the point of going beyond 5.1 unless your room needs help from irregular speaker positions to improve the sound quality. Some may even point out that a full range 5.0 speaker setup eliminates the need for even the sub(s). It only makes sense to purchase a speaker “if” it makes enough of a difference to notice that difference without being unreasonably priced! You could research some other dipoles and compare however nothing beats being in the same room and hearing them period! You hear sound that is according to your expectations not mine so without the audition your at the mercy of the rev of opinions of others. I work hard for my dollars so I’ll bd the judge of my speakers as you will need to do the same for yours. I hope however that you heat the speakers before you buy them because your room is definitely going to need a pair of surround speakers that can fulfill the odd layout of your room. It’s doable though so take your time and have fun with it. It’s a high without the hang over


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[sven1olaf]

Personally a good pair of dipoles will usually run the same price as a good centre channel in the same product line. I have a dedicated home theatre with paradigm studio 40 version 2 as my surrounds. I purchased them in 2004. They were originally my mains but became my surrounds when I later purchased the paradigm studio 100 version 3’s for mains. Anyway my centre from paradigm model cc570 was 1200.00 at that time and the studio 40’s were 1299.00. The studio 40s have excellent dispersion for a bookshelf speaker I have on stands however. I wouldn’t use those in your setup since my room layout could even accommodate Dolby Atmos if I wanted it. Not to get to far off topic but a well chosen 5.1 system with quality speakers, sub, and separates will stand the test of time. Our ears do not change because electronics do. Physical limitations of a room do not adapt because we place speakers inside them. We are bound by the physical air volume of that space, any unblocked openings like in your room and the shape of the rooms architecture. I don’t see the point of going beyond 5.1 unless your room needs help from irregular speaker positions to improve the sound quality. Some may even point out that a full range 5.0 speaker setup eliminates the need for even the sub(s). It only makes sense to purchase a speaker “if” it makes enough of a difference to notice that difference without being unreasonably priced! You could research some other dipoles and compare however nothing beats being in the same room and hearing them period! You hear sound that is according to your expectations not mine so without the audition your at the mercy of the rev of opinions of others. I work hard for my dollars so I’ll bd the judge of my speakers as you will need to do the same for yours. I hope however that you heat the speakers before you buy them because your room is definitely going to need a pair of surround speakers that can fulfill the odd layout of your room. It’s doable though so take your time and have fun with it. It’s a high without the hang over


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Again, great info!!!

The time you put into this is not overlooked. I appreciate it.

Can I ask you what you think about the photos I included. I put red dots where I am thinking about placing the dipoles.

Any tips or suggestions?

Thanks again!

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[William Lemmerhirt]

I agree. Definitely try out as many as you can reasonably, and enough to get a good idea of what you’ll like. Personally I loathe di/bipoles, but there are some situations where they can work better than a monopole. Rooms that are oddly shaped or very narrow can benefit from the diffuse sound since being very close to a speaker can make its position well known. Also rooms where they can’t be placed symmetrically can benefit too.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I think the red dot locations look pretty good. Then you might consider atmos if the angles are close.

 

[HTfreak2004]

I agree with the atmos idea in that room . It’s layout is way outside ideal but that’s the fun of this hobby namely overcoming the layouts that are not custom builds. The locations you marked should be fine. Maybe you can do something with those Phoenix ceiling speakers later. Those ones might be best reduced in speaker trim and used simply for ambiance!


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