Help a noob wire his Wharfedale Diamonds

D

dotVIBE

Junior Audioholic
Hey guys,

This might be a stoopid question. It might be a question asked and answered a million billion times already. Fact is, I read my manual and searched the forum and came up with squat. so your guru-like input will be highly valued.

Right, My Yamaha RX-V559 comes with 2 sets speaker outs for the front speakers. Now, I know my wharfedale diamond 9.5's are 6 ohm, so I set the thingy-majiggy for 6 ohm impedance on all speakers (all diamonds 6 ohm's).

NOW...: why is there a Speaker A FL & FR and a Speaker B FL & FR output on the amp.

Now, don't laugh yourself silly, but is this for bi-amping the speakers? And if so, should I do it? Or do I just plug my front floorstanders into Speaker A's amp connections and leave the bi-amp plate in and be done with it?
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
why is there a Speaker A FL & FR and a Speaker B FL & FR output on the amp.
You might want to check your manual, but my guess is the second set are your "B" speakers, which are intended to send a stereo signal to another set of (two) speakers, perhaps in another room.

But, again, your owner's manual most likely explains this. Check it out.

It's available on-line but it requires a login/password so I'm outta luuck to help you any more. You're pretty much on your own here.
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
You might want to check your manual, but my guess is the second set are your "B" speakers, which are intended to send a stereo signal to another set of (two) speakers, perhaps in another room.

But, again, your owner's manual most likely explains this. Check it out.

It's available on-line but it requires a login/password so I'm outta luuck to help you any more. You're pretty much on your own here.
Yep, that is what it is on almost all other receivers, so I wouldn't expect the Yammie to be different in that regard. Most don't apply any bass management to the B terminals either, so you will get a full range signal from it. It is essentially a "poor man's" Zone 2, the difference being you can only listen to whatever source is playing vs zones being able to listen to a different stereo analog source.
 
D

dotVIBE

Junior Audioholic
Right, one can run an alternative set of front speakers. Okay. Kinda pointless seeing as the receiver has Zone 2 outs. I'll just ignore it then.

Thanks guys!
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Right, one can run an alternative set of front speakers. Okay. Kinda pointless seeing as the receiver has Zone 2 outs. I'll just ignore it then.

Thanks guys!
General rule with receivers.

Bi-amping does nothing to increase performance on a receiver. Why?, because each channel is capable of delivering the full power of the receiver. Each channel uses the same centrally located transformer and resevior capacitors. Essentially what one is doing when they chose to biamp, using the receiver, is bi-wiring, which also does nothing on a receiver.

The acception would be if you get another amplifier or maybe two amplifiers, then you could remove the jumpers on the speakers and bi-amp. But with those speakers it is unlikely you would ever need to do so to increase performance or overall output. If you get a power amp, it is likely it would have more than enough power to drive the Wharfadales to insane levels of output, far beyond what you would care to listen.
 
D

dotVIBE

Junior Audioholic
and now I understand your sig. Thx Mr. audioholic couch potato!
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Not really.

Right, one can run an alternative set of front speakers. Okay. Kinda pointless seeing as the receiver has Zone 2 outs. I'll just ignore it then.

Thanks guys!
Zone 2 outputs require additional amplification.
 
no. 5

no. 5

Audioholic Field Marshall
Now, I know my wharfedale diamond 9.5's are 6 ohm, so I set the thingy-majiggy for 6 ohm impedance on all speakers (all diamonds 6 ohm's).
You may get better results leaving it in the 8 ohm position. Just a thought.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
You may get better results leaving it in the 8 ohm position. Just a thought.
True, most receivers perform their best with the switch set to the default 8 ohm position, regardless of load.:)
 
S

sivadselim

Audioholic
The "B" outputs represent an extra set of outputs from the front 2 R/L amps. Whatever is coming out of the front "A" outputs, is what comes out of the front "B" outputs when they're used simultaneously. The same settings that would be applied to the front R/L "A" outputs, in any particular mode, will be applied to the front R/L "B" outputs when they are used individually. The "A" and "B" outputs canNOT be used to bi-amp speakers because they simply represent dual outputs from the same 2 front R/L amplifiers. The "A" and "B" outputs CAN be used to facilitate "easier" bi-wiring, as the "B" outputs DO simply represent an extra set of binding posts from the front R/L amps.

On most receivers the "B" outputs are wired in parallel with the "A" outputs when they are used simultaneously. This means that a front amplifier will see a "combined" impedance of both of the speakers that are connected to it when the "A" and "B" outputs are used simultaneously.

To calculate parallel impedance

where
A = impedance of speaker connected to "A" output
B = impedance of speaker connected to "B" output

parallel impedance = (AxB)/(A+B)


Some (very few) receivers may wire the "A" and "B" outputs in series when they are used simutaneously. Calculating serial impedance is a bit easier (although calculating parallel impedance isn't really "hard").

To calculate serial impedance:

where
A = impedance of speaker connected to "A" output
B = impedance of speaker connected to "B" output

serial impedance = A + B


If you are ever in doubt about how a receiver's "A" and "B" outputs are wired when they are used simultaneously, there is a simple "test" that allows you to decipher this, easily. Connect a speaker (or speakers) to only the "B" outputs; leave the "A" outputs empty. Put on some test material and turn both the "A" and "B" outputs ON. If you hear the speaker that's connected to the "B" outputs, then the "A" and "B" outputs are wired in parallel when used simultaneously. If you canNOT hear the speaker that's connected to the "B" outputs, then the "A" and "B" outputs are wired in series when used simultaneously.
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
The "B" outputs represent an extra set of outputs from the front 2 R/L amps. Whatever is coming out of the front "A" outputs, is what comes out of the front "B" outputs when they're used simultaneously. The same settings that would be applied to the front R/L "A" outputs, in any particular mode, will be applied to the front R/L "B" outputs when they are used individually. The "A" and "B" outputs canNOT be used to bi-amp speakers because they simply represent dual outputs from the same 2 front R/L amplifiers. The "A" and "B" outputs CAN be used to facilitate "easier" bi-wiring, as the "B" outputs DO simply represent an extra set of binding posts from the front R/L amps.

On most receivers the "B" outputs are wired in parallel with the "A" outputs when they are used simultaneously. This means that a front amplifier will see a "combined" impedance of both of the speakers that are connected to it when the "A" and "B" outputs are used simultaneously.
You forget, most receivers will not allow surround sound to be used when A+B are engaged. So when you want to use the surround channels you will either lose the tweeters or the lower range drivers on the front left and right, which is unacceptable in most if not all setups.;)
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
You're incorrect. As I explained (or tried to explain), the "B" outputs do NOT utilize any of the other channels' amplifiers. They're simply an extra set of (usually parallel) binding posts from the front R/L amps.

You're confusing and twisting two completely different applications. One involves using the "B" binding posts to connect another set of speakers (alters the impedance seen by the front channel amps) to the front channel amplifiers or to facilitate easier bi-wiring (does not alter the impedance seen by the front channel amps). The other involves assigning the unused (in a 5.1 setup) 6th and 7th channel surround rear amplifiers for bi-amp duty. This second application does NOT utilize the "B" binding posts at all, but instead utilizes the 2 pairs of surround rear speaker binding posts. In the first scenario, using the front channels' "B" binding posts, the extra set of speakers or the bi-wired speakers can easily be run while a receiver is in multichannel mode, whether the receiver is set up for 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1. With the other scenario, as long as the unused amps are assigned properly to bi-amp duty, they can also be easily utilized in multichannel mode, obviously only in 5.1. And obviously you can't use the 6th and 7th amplifiers as surround rear channel amps when they're assigned for bi-amp duty.
I am not certain, but the RX-V559 may not support said features and options. I don't have access to a users manual, so I cannot be sure.:)
 
S

sivadselim

Audioholic
EDIT: Sorry Seth, I deleted that which you quoted in the above post, and reposted it with the required corrections and explanations here in this post, as I realized from your post #11 that some of what I had said did not apply to ALL receivers.


You forget, most receivers will not allow surround sound to be used when A+B are engaged. So when you want to use the surround channels you will either lose the tweeters or the lower range drivers on the front left and right, which is unacceptable in most if not all setups.;)
Actually, this depends upon the receiver's design. With some receivers, the "B" speakers DO represent and utilize the separate surround rear amplifiers, but these receivers do not specifically allow assignment of the surround rear amplifiers to bi-amp duty, although they CAN be used as such. As I explained, the "B" outputs on most receivers do not utilize any of the other channels' amplifiers, and instead simply represent an extra set of (usually parallel) binding posts from the front R/L amps. I incorrectly assumed that this is the way ALL receiver's "B" binding posts operate, which was an incorrect assumption, as some receiver's "B" binding posts DO represent completely different amplifiers than the front R/L amplifiers as they utilize the 6th and 7th surround rear amplifiers for the "B" speakers.

What I was describing was two different applications when using a receiver whose "B" binding posts simply represent another parallel set of binding posts from the front R/L channel amplifiers. One involves using the "B" binding posts of this receiver to connect another set of speakers (alters the impedance seen by the front channel amps) to the R/L front channel amplifiers or to facilitate easier bi-wiring (does not alter the impedance seen by the front channel amps) to the R/L front channel amplifiers. The other involves assigning the unused (in a 5.1 setup) 6th and 7th channel surround rear amplifiers of this receiver for bi-amp duty. This second application does NOT utilize the "B" binding posts at all, but instead utilizes the 2 pairs of surround rear speaker binding posts. These two applications, the use of the "B" binding posts of a receiver whose "B" binding posts simply represent another parallel set of binding posts from the front R/L channel amplifiers, and the use of the unused 6th and 7th amplifiers of a receiver for bi-amping are two completely different applications. In the first scenario, provided we are talking about a receiver whose "B" binding posts simply represent another parallel set of binding posts from the front R/L channel amplifiers, when using the front channels' "B" binding posts, the extra set of speakers or the bi-wired speakers can easily be run while the receiver is in multichannel mode, whether the receiver is set up for 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1. With the other scenario, as long as the unused surround rear amplifiers are assigned properly to bi-amp duty, they can also be easily utilized in multichannel mode, but obviously only in 5.1.

I apologize for assuming that all receivers' "B" binding posts simply represent another parallel set of binding posts from the front R/L channel amplifiers. This IS the case with most receivers, but after doing a little research I have discovered that some receivers' "B" binding posts DO indeed represent different amplifiers than the front R/L channel amplifiers and instead represent the 6th and 7th surround rear amplifiers. These receivers obviously do NOT allow the use of the 6th and 7th channel amplifiers for surround rear duty simultaneously with the "B" speakers.

So there is a difference in terminology between receivers. Many receivers allow the 6th and 7th surround rear amplifiers to be used to independently drive another pair of speakers in another room. On most receivers, this is called "Zone2" and is assignable as such in the receiver's setup proceedure. These two amplifiers can also often be assigned as bi-amping amplifiers in the receiver's setup proceedure. Some receivers, however, do not call these speakers "Zone2" but instead simply call these speakers "B" speakers. The "B" binding posts of these receivers represent the 6ht and 7th surroud rear amplifiers and can be utilized to independently drive another set of speakers in the same exact way as "Zone2" speakers would be driven. And they, too, can implicitly be used for bi-amping, although this may not be described as a use for them in the user's manual. In a receiver whose surround rear channel amplifiers can be assigned to what is called "Zone2", the "B'" outputs refer to an extra set of (usually) parallel binding posts off of the same 2 front R/L channel amplifiers as the "A" binding posts, and not independent binding posts representing the 2 surround rear amplifiers. With either "type" of receiver, you can't utilize the 6th and 7th amplifiers as surround rear channel amps when they're being used either for bi-amping or to independently drive another set of speakers.

So I guess, in hindsight, I should have clarified in my previous posts that what I was describing were receivers whose "B" binding posts represent an extra set of (usually) parallel binding post off of the same 2 front channel R/L amplifiers as the "A" binding posts, and not receivers whose "B" binding posts represent independent binding posts of off the surround rear R/L channel amplifiers.

Sorry for the confusion.

BTW, on your RX-V559, the "B" binding posts do simply represent an extra set of binding posts off of the same 2 front R/L amplifiers as the front "A" binding posts. And to add further confusion, these "B" binding posts on your receiver can be assigned as "Front" or as "ZoneB". However, because they represent binding posts off of the same front channel amplifiers as the "A" binding posts, when assigned as "ZoneB" they can not be utilized to playback independent input source material to what is being played back in the main zone via the "A" speakers. Your receiver also has "Zone2" capability, which does allow independent input souce material to be played in "Zone2", but external amplification must be utilized in order to set up a "Zone2".
 
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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
EDIT: Sorry Seth, I deleted that which you quoted in the above post, and reposted it with the required corrections and explanations here in this post, as I realized from your post #11 that some of what I had said did not apply to ALL .................................. but external amplification must be utilized in order to set up a "Zone2".

Understood.:)
 
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