Head to Head Review: Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE vs Wharfedale Diamond 10.1

[j_garcia]

I really don't like gloss speakers, so that's my only issue with the CSBs. I feel the cabinets look good, but the main reason I don't like gloss is for the reason mentioned - you basically cannot keep them clean and scratch free. I scratched my center when opening them up to correct the polyfil; not really visible, but I know it is there. Detailing cars is a hobby of mine too, so I know what 2ndammendment is talking about. The cabinets are not as well built and nowhere near as solid as my A/V-2s, but those were built by an excellent cabinet maker that Danny used to use

 

[zieglj01]

I really don't like gloss speakers, so that's my only issue with the CSBs. I feel the cabinets look good, but the main reason I don't like gloss is for the reason mentioned - you basically cannot keep them clean and scratch free. I scratched my center when opening them up to correct the polyfil; not really visible, but I know it is there. Detailing cars is a hobby of mine too, so I know what 2ndammendment is talking about. The cabinets are not as well built and nowhere near as solid as my A/V-2s, but those were built by an excellent cabinet maker that Danny used to use

Again, not trying to be negative - however, I do not quite buy into a 400 dollar discount, based on
the poly-fill assembly problem, with the CSB-1 speaker. They are trying to move some inventory.

 

[j_garcia]

Again, not trying to be negative - however, I do not quite buy into a 400 dollar discount, based on
the poly-fill assembly problem, with the CSB-1 speaker. They are trying to move some inventory.

The Polyfil IS an issue from the standpoint that Danny is a stickler for details and they have a large number of them like that, which is why the heavy discount IMO. They ARE trying to move inventory on the speakers that have this issue, as minor as it is. Nothing wrong with that. At $400 I think they are a deal because you are basically getting the cabinet and labor free. At their normal price, I didn't bite. I've heard the N2X kit and was ready to build the N1 kit myself so I priced everything out already. At that price, they're easily cheaper than you could build the N1 kit that these are based on for, with a PE cabinet. The only way to build it cheaper is if you build the cabinet yourself and even then, just with cabinet materials and a veneer or paint, you'll be about the same price.

 

[alphaiii]

Nice and interesting - and shows that all reviews, whether so-called pro, or layman,
or personal, is subjective.

The Carnegie and Energy, look to be under-built (which includes finish and assembly)
for their former list price.

I have to agree...

Regarding the Carnegie... the list price is $899. The tweeter is very good (BG Neo3), and the crossover parts are good, but the woofer is not what I would expect for a $900 pair of speakers. Of course, the GR M130 also uses a plastic frame (or Danny would argue, composite), and it's a solid woofer - just ask Dennis Murphy. Shame to hear the finish is a bit subpar... but gloss black is just tough to maintain.

With the Energy - the cherry and rosenut veneer versions had a very nice fit/finish, and the crossover parts look reasonable (air core inductors and poly caps on the tweeter I assume, and what looks like laminate core inductor and electrolytic on the woofer to cut costs)... But again, they appear to skimp a bit on the woofer. However, these are list price $600 speakers, and they have been selling for quite a bit less for a long time running now.

 

[zieglj01]

The Polyfil IS an issue from the standpoint that Danny is a stickler for details and they have a large number of them like that, which is why the heavy discount IMO. They ARE trying to move inventory on the speakers that have this issue, as minor as it is. Nothing wrong with that. At $400 I think they are a deal because you are basically getting the cabinet and labor free. At their normal price, I didn't bite.

I do understand that the Polyfill needs to be changed - I know it can make a difference.
However $400 is a big discount - I do not see how it will be easy to move future (correct)
inventory, for $800. Business is tough out there - and they at regular price, do not seem
to be moving well.

Based on the comments about customer service - I am still hesitant about buying the B stock.

Will have to see what the future holds. Have fun

 

[zieglj01]

I have to agree...

Regarding the Carnegie... the list price is $899. The tweeter is very good (BG Neo3), and the crossover parts are good, but the woofer is not what I would expect for a $900 pair of speakers. Of course, the GR M130 also uses a plastic frame (or Danny would argue, composite), and it's a solid woofer - just ask Dennis Murphy. Shame to hear the finish is a bit subpar... but gloss black is just tough to maintain.

I have bought GR woofers before - and they are real nice for the price - However, I would desire
more for $899. However, marketing plays a big part.

Also, their seems to be a quality control issue with Carnegie, and that is a turn off - And as nice
as they seem - they Do Not Look to be Giant Killers. I do not see them as knocking off my Snell
speakers. Also, I want to handle the purchase on-line myself.

However, I am sure that most people who buy them will like them - and some will not even mess
with the Poly-fill. However, I would if I bought them - and may even change the stuffing product.

 

[j_garcia]

My A/V-1s are rock wool lined and I hate working with that stuff. My A/V-2s are No-Rez lined and use just a little poly stuffing; the cabinets are already super stiff even with no lining. The quality issues seem to be limited to the first shipment AFAIK (first build); unfortunately that translated into a large number of speakers for them. IMO, they do sound ok without doing anything, but moving the fill did help a bit; more on the CSBs than the CSC (sealed) IMO. The M130 (GR version) is fine for a speaker at the full price IMO. I've seen lesser drivers in more expensive speakers.

 

[alphaiii]

I really don't like gloss speakers, so that's my only issue with the CSBs. I feel the cabinets look good, but the main reason I don't like gloss is for the reason mentioned - you basically cannot keep them clean and scratch free. I scratched my center when opening them up to correct the polyfil; not really visible, but I know it is there. Detailing cars is a hobby of mine too, so I know what 2ndammendment is talking about. The cabinets are not as well built and nowhere near as solid as my A/V-2s, but those were built by an excellent cabinet maker that Danny used to use

I don't like gloss black either... Hated it about the NHT Three's... so I have no idea why I just bought the Two's after selling the Three's awhile ago.

I do like some other gloss finishes though. The Mirage OMD in mappa burl was amazing... the gloss rosewood was very nice too, although sometimes the reflections masked the wood grain and the speakers just appeared dark red. The gloss cherry on the Quad L and L2 series looks really nice from the pics... but never saw them in person, and they dropped that in the new L Classics.

This has to be one of my favorite finishes, from pics at least...
Three Elemental Designs/Swan (HiVi) W6-6TC speakers (beautiful front stage)

 

[j_garcia]

I tend to like the burls and I don't mind gloss when it is wood. Burled maple, redwood and mahogany's are usually what I like and I lean more toward the redish colors.

 

[alphaiii]

Salk does some amazing work.

 

[j_garcia]

Best example I could think of and so many options

 

[zieglj01]

I am also getting tired of the Gloss black look.

 

[j_garcia]

 

[alphaiii]

Really diggin the look of the A/V-2's...

Other is nice too...

Did you build the cabinets?

 

[j_garcia]

Nope, those were done by Brian at RAD (not sure if his company is still around, but I couldn't find his site). He made cabinets for Danny for a few years and I was a big fan of the natural cherry finish. This pair were actually Brian's personal pair that he sold to me when he built some new ones. I had him build a matching center via Danny when I bought them.

The little red pair were built by a friend of mine and are a variant of a Dennis Murphy design and they sound amazing. Pondering picking those up from him...

 

[alphaiii]

I am also getting tired of the Gloss black look.

Yeah unfortunately it seems to be the "go-to" finish for companies when they want something higher end than black vinyl. But I guess that's what the market still calls for...

I'd like to see more walnut... but it seems like many companies shy away... maybe due to all of the cheap faux walnut speakers from back in the day...

I also don't get why cherry and rosewood end up equaling halloween orange and blood red in color so often... More natural finishes would be a nice change.

 

[2ndammendment]

I actually like gloss black. Yes, its a real pain to keep clean but when it is, it looks damn good. I definitely am getting a bit tired of it as well though. I dig some of the bamboo speakers Ive seen as well. However, I feel the CSB-1s look very elegant and their design is striking enough to not look boring but they are not distracting for near-field use. Pictures don't do them justice.

 

[j_garcia]

I also like that the CSBs use the hidden magnet grilles too, like my A/V-2s. Much cleaner look without the usual plastic sockets for attaching them.

 

[2ndammendment]

I don't feel the cabinet on the CSB-1 is poorly made. They did some really cool things with it such as the magnetic grills, slanted face/back and the port is perfectly blended into the cabinet during construction then painted so it looks like its all one piece. It may not be the best braced or the thickest but I think its more than acceptable. It has a significantly better cabinet than that on the CBM-170s for example, and that speaker seems to be a crowd favorite. It seemed like the A1bs, Wharfedales and CSB-1s had the best cabinet while the CBM-170 and the RC-10 had the worst(not absolutely terrible by any means, just not great compared other speakers in their price range). I truly feel that the CSB-1 is not a $900 speaker, or at least a very poor value at that price. It does have some design aspects that I've seen on $1,000 speakers, and if I hadn't opened them up I may have been fooled into thinking they were a lot better than they actually were. I noticed some corners cut, such as the port only being flared on the outside and not on the inside, lack of significant bracing, etc. If I had to guess I would say ~$500 is a fair retail price for them. With the customer service and quality control issues aside I am fairly happy. I can't say I would buy from them again and I am probably not going to be raving to all my friends about how great they are, but anyone looking at speakers under ~$500 should give them some consideration.

 

[cschang]

Nope, those were done by Brian at RAD (not sure if his company is still around, but I couldn't find his site). He made cabinets for Danny for a few years and I was a big fan of the natural cherry finish. This pair were actually Brian's personal pair that he sold to me when he built some new ones. I had him build a matching center via Danny when I bought them.

Brian isn't doing woodworking any more, but I think his father may be. Brian is actually going to chiropractic school. Great guy.

He also did these A/V-2's I had at my place a while back:

and these stands that I still have: